I still love the 2-smokes for what they are. Still have an 01 SRX but just picked up an 06 Apex for 5k. Only had 1900 miles on it. I absolutly love the machine. Its a blast to ride and suspension is much improved ove the SRX. Do I like it better than my SRX when I first rode it?? Probably not but equal. The way the Apex feels to me after coming off the SRX is how I felt when I went from my 1990 Skidoo Formula Plus to my 98 SRX. I was very skeptical after having read some negative posts on the 4 stroke side but after driving the sled I've totally forgotten. I all comes down to what you want and how much you want (or don't want) to spend.
woolyviper
New member
4 stroke pros:
better gas mileage - don't need a 12 gallon tank
no 2 stroke oil - 1/3 the cost if you change oil every year
no power valves to clean
wide power band
no smoke
longevity - face it you have to rebuild a two stroke if you keep it long enough
no burn downs
modern technology
i bought a phazer fx as a backup sled - never rode my viper again.
better gas mileage - don't need a 12 gallon tank
no 2 stroke oil - 1/3 the cost if you change oil every year
no power valves to clean
wide power band
no smoke
longevity - face it you have to rebuild a two stroke if you keep it long enough
no burn downs
modern technology
i bought a phazer fx as a backup sled - never rode my viper again.
opsled
Active member
The last new sled I bought was an 86 Phazer Deluxe for my wife (great sled). Listed at over $3000 ($3300if I remember right). Traded in my 80 Exciter that I had also bought new for $2000. They gave me $1500 on trade for the Exciter and I thought I was getting a smoking hot deal. Almost 20 year later (2004) I bought an 03 Liquid Silver RX1 with 550 miles on it, cover, charger, 144 studs, 3 year warrentee in perfect condition for $5595.
Guys that are complaining about what you get for your money today have no clue. SRX's, RX1's, Phazer's, Nitro's, Apex, Viper, etc, etc, for $6000 and less???? I see nothin but bargians when comparing prices vs products from yesteryear.
opsled
Guys that are complaining about what you get for your money today have no clue. SRX's, RX1's, Phazer's, Nitro's, Apex, Viper, etc, etc, for $6000 and less???? I see nothin but bargians when comparing prices vs products from yesteryear.
opsled
BigTimeFarmer
New member
sideshowBob said:
you do have to keep in mind that 2 strokes (of the case reed variety anyway) were pushed out of the market by government regulation. it had little to nothing to do with any supposed inferiority to 4 strokes. it's obvious to me from this discussion that there is still a huge market for 2 stroke snowmobiles, but we have no say in the matter.
Like I said earlier, I will be switching the fleet out to 4 stroke coming this spring. One thing I see with a 2 stroke sled is, the people who still have like to wrench on them, a 2 stroke is very basic, where the 4 stroke is highly complicated by design. Yes they both can be wrenched on but they are two different animals. I am seeing much higher hp numbers available from the 4 strokes when modified also. Just like in the marine industry I work in. 4 strokes rule the water, however some 2 strokes are still around, while BRP still offer the ETech Evinrude and Johnson. I will not work on any of these soley due to BRP's point of not supporting non-dealer services. On our lake BRP product is maybe 1 out of 200. No dealer support. Keep up the good work Yamaha. Al
alswagg said:
What do you mean by non-dealer services Al?
BigTimeFarmer said:
Very true. For myself the move to the 4-stroke wasn't because I didn't like 2-strokes but more of the issue of Yamaha only offering 4-strokes. I wanted something newer with fuel injection and better suspension. If you want this with Yamaha 4-stroke is your only choice. It would be interesting to see if Yamaha offered a 2-stroke in a chassis very similar to the Apex or Nyto what the percentage of sales would be 2 vs 4 stroke.
bufalobob
Member
i live in a ski area. we average about 160"-170" annually. this is big snowmobile country. before the 4 strokes yamaha had the biggest market share in western new york. the 3 largest dealers now order/sell very few yamaha's. pull up to the local watering holes & it's a sea of yellow followed by polaris & arctic cat. very few 4 stroke yami's.
bob
bob
What I mean by "non-dealer" services. We can not even buy the software for the EFI systems for the BRP product. Let alone special tooling. On the other hand, we have all of the software for Mercury, Yamaha and Honda. Special tools for these outboards are extremely easy to aquire. Al
bufalobob said:
I would guess that the rev chassis had as much to do with the switch as the RX1 did. If Yamaha had stayed with the 2 stroke, I would expect that lots would still have gone to the Rev.
alswagg said:
So BRP won't sell special tools or diagnostic software over the counter at a BRP dealer? Is the software laptop based or does it require special hardware too? Seems to me they're missing out on a lot of sales.
Please excuse my ignorance again, but aside from the diag software, don't most OEMs use an outside source for special tools? IOW - I remember buying clutch tools from a supplier I was refered to from my Polaris dealer, not directly from the Polaris dealer.
The automotive world is a bit different. Uncle suger mandates not only commonality amongst all OEMs, but also requires them to make available all special tools and hard/software. I haven't been involved lately but for a while the aftermarket was pushing for regulations that would have allowed non-dealer shops to charge the OEM for warranty (tailpipe and evap emission related) repairs.
03viperguy
Moderator
crewchief47 said:
I agree completely. like em or not, the rev changed everything. every maker has either rider forward or more forward
bufalobob said:
Every once in awhile we flatlanders venture out to Revelstoke B.C. to ride Boulder Mountain. I ride one of my Brother in Laws spare sleds, a BB, Lightened, Nitrous, Summit.[I still wear my TY shirt + Hat!] When riding in the steep + deep the light weight mod 2 strokes are still the way to go...I would not like to be digging out a 4 stroke all day!
JM.02c
Bob
yami1
Member
Well ive said it before on here. Ive had both an 05 vector and a 97 sx700. The sx was an absolute blast. Did ride like crap though. Updated to all viper shocks n track ported it few other mods n now it was perfect. Handled great went through shit loads of snow. was just fun. Sold it got a vector (first mistake should have kept was paid for). Vector motor was awesome fun as hell on a groomed trail n yeah was nice to pull up to pump maybe once a day. But man that thing was like riding a anchor with a motor in the powder. Rode better but you really feel that weight at the end of day if you are agressive rider. I want to get back into sport and dont know which way to go.
1. There are many more happy owners than unhappy owners of Yammi 4 stroke sleds.bufalobob said:
2. Yamaha began making 4 strokes sleds in 2003. The sleds have only improved since then. The 2011 Apex is one sweet sled. The danger in riding a 2001 Apex is you won't like you current sled anymore. Trust me. I'm comparing it to my heavily modified 2007 Attak GT, not my Mt Viper. Totally different category sleds.
3. Mike Knapp has owned that Super Charged Doo for 2 seasons now. He seemd really excited about the 2011 Apex XTX and ordered one site unseen. I don't know what he did for set up. But then he rode it for 300 miles and sold it to Viper Dave. I believe he said it still darted. I ask, did he try shimming or different skis first before selling? And remember, he is one guy. There are many more who have weighed in and are having drastically different experiences.
4. My advice: Don't knock it until you've tried it. Then form opinions. And remember, every rider is different and sets up their sleds differently and expects different things from said sleds.
To me it seems many unhappy 2011 Apex owners don't know how to set a sled up and won't take the time to learn. they expect it to come perfectly set up from the dealer. I ask: When has a sled ever come home from the dealership perfect? My reply: Never.
5. I own 4 stroke Yammis and 2 stroke Yammis. I like them both and I ride them both. But they are different. More and more I put 200++ miles a day on my sled. Will 2 stroke sled handle this amount of miles racking up day after day? Some will, some won't. But most all 4 strokers can just go day after day and you never have to add oil. More reliable and effeicient to ride, period.
6. A neighbor of mine owns a 2011 Red Apex XTX. A buddy's fiance owns a 2011 Apex SE. I've ridden both. The both cruise and don't dart. Interestingly, they both were set up by owners who know how to set up sleds well.....
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sideshowBob said:
Read my other post Bob. He owned the S/C'd 'Doo before the Apex. He then bought the Apex on a whim. He then sold the Apex and soley rides the S/C'd Doo again.