sleddheadd
New member
for all those who have ever wondered about what type/wieght of oil to use, hopefully this helps!
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:
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the society of automotive engineers(SAE) have established 12 different viscosity grades. vicosity grades will determine the oils dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity.
the dynamic viscosity is the first # you see usually followed by a W , which , yes , you can associate that # with winter to help you think of how it performs in cold weather.the SAE has determined 6 grades of "winter" formulas beginning with 0W and working up to 25W in 5 point incriments. what they are measureing with this is the lubricants ability to pump 60,000centipointe units with no yield stress at certain temps. for ex.
0W = 60,000 cP @-40*C
5W = 60,000 cP @-35*C
10W = 60,000 cP @ -30*C and so on till 25Wwhich is 60,000 cP@-15
basically the smaller the # the better protection for colder temps.
the next # measures the lubricants ability to pour or its kinemetric viscosity, which is measured by the time it takes an oil to pour out of a container. the temp. is always consistant at 100*C (212*F)
this is #ered from 20 -60 in 10 pt incriments and is measured using sabolt universal second(sus) for ex.
sae20@100*c will empty in min.5.6sus and a max. of9.3sus
30 = 9.3sus - 12.5sus
40 = 12.5sus- 16.3sus
60 = 21.9sus - 26.1sus
in other words the oil will empty out of the container just by pouring in 5.6 seconds (roughly) to 9.3 seconds
remember you do not want your oil viscosity to thin in hot temps. because you will lose you ability to lubricate and protect your engine.
a good ex is this. a truck driver leaves florida with a load of oranges heading for minnesota, in fla. he runs SAE 30 oil because of the ambient temp. in fla. when he (or she) get to min. the driver finds the SAE 30 is to viscious or thick to handle the sub zero temps and is having a hard time starting the vehicle. after changing oil to an SAE 15W the starting problem is solved and he can continue on. when he gets back to fla. he finds the SAE 15W is to thin due to the high temps. in fla. therefore the lubricant can not protect the engine like it should.
thus, they have made multi viscosity oils. the point is not that a certain oil is thicker or thinner because under different circumstances they will all flow the same it just depends on the temp. of the product.
how many times have we been in the north woods and the temp. has been -30* one day and 30* the next? i've seen it! make sure you choose an oil that is best for your climate and has a broad viscosity range to cover those sudden changes in weather!
basically the ultimate protection for any motor would be a 0W-60 but the viscosity range of that oil is nearly impossible to achieve
i run amsoil 0W-40 four stroke in mine and i love it!
next post on different comparitive tests run by the american petroleum institute(API) and exactly how and why an oil breaks down !
_________________
my head hurts after writing all of this!!!
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the society of automotive engineers(SAE) have established 12 different viscosity grades. vicosity grades will determine the oils dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity.
the dynamic viscosity is the first # you see usually followed by a W , which , yes , you can associate that # with winter to help you think of how it performs in cold weather.the SAE has determined 6 grades of "winter" formulas beginning with 0W and working up to 25W in 5 point incriments. what they are measureing with this is the lubricants ability to pump 60,000centipointe units with no yield stress at certain temps. for ex.
0W = 60,000 cP @-40*C
5W = 60,000 cP @-35*C
10W = 60,000 cP @ -30*C and so on till 25Wwhich is 60,000 cP@-15
basically the smaller the # the better protection for colder temps.
the next # measures the lubricants ability to pour or its kinemetric viscosity, which is measured by the time it takes an oil to pour out of a container. the temp. is always consistant at 100*C (212*F)
this is #ered from 20 -60 in 10 pt incriments and is measured using sabolt universal second(sus) for ex.
sae20@100*c will empty in min.5.6sus and a max. of9.3sus
30 = 9.3sus - 12.5sus
40 = 12.5sus- 16.3sus
60 = 21.9sus - 26.1sus
in other words the oil will empty out of the container just by pouring in 5.6 seconds (roughly) to 9.3 seconds
remember you do not want your oil viscosity to thin in hot temps. because you will lose you ability to lubricate and protect your engine.
a good ex is this. a truck driver leaves florida with a load of oranges heading for minnesota, in fla. he runs SAE 30 oil because of the ambient temp. in fla. when he (or she) get to min. the driver finds the SAE 30 is to viscious or thick to handle the sub zero temps and is having a hard time starting the vehicle. after changing oil to an SAE 15W the starting problem is solved and he can continue on. when he gets back to fla. he finds the SAE 15W is to thin due to the high temps. in fla. therefore the lubricant can not protect the engine like it should.
thus, they have made multi viscosity oils. the point is not that a certain oil is thicker or thinner because under different circumstances they will all flow the same it just depends on the temp. of the product.
how many times have we been in the north woods and the temp. has been -30* one day and 30* the next? i've seen it! make sure you choose an oil that is best for your climate and has a broad viscosity range to cover those sudden changes in weather!
basically the ultimate protection for any motor would be a 0W-60 but the viscosity range of that oil is nearly impossible to achieve
i run amsoil 0W-40 four stroke in mine and i love it!
next post on different comparitive tests run by the american petroleum institute(API) and exactly how and why an oil breaks down !
_________________
my head hurts after writing all of this!!! ModMMax
New member
Well done sleddheadd.
sleddheadd
New member
glad you like it!! hope it helps!! if any one has any questions , i should be able to help! if i can't get the answer i can get a hold of someone who will have it!i am an amsoil dealer and have done a lot of reading and research into the field.
there is also a breakdown for gear lube but i was starting to run out of time and space!!! may be next time!
xt700
New member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Messages
- 262
thanks you made something very complicated to understand simple whith the example you used.. very helpfull. hope you have the chance to do the gear lube sometime.
Pat
Pat
sleddheadd
New member
TTT
ttttt
ttttt
FINALLY an AMSOIL dealer that has SOME brains!!!! MY pet peeve about AMSOIL is that they let ANYBODY be a dealer and a representative for their product.. I talked with a guy at the NOVI snow show a few years back and he showed me a combustion chamber and HE MADE UP a really complicated story ( and most of it was BULL****) and kept me there telling me about how HIS PRODUCT does this and that ( which, by the way, COULD NEVER HAPPEN) and ABSOLUTELY TURNED ME OFF to the whole AMSOIL product!!! The guy was more of a BULL**** artist than a real "educated" individual.. That LED me to believe that AMSOIL would let ANYONE sell it's product!!! It seemed to me that if a company didn't want to put the time and effort to TRAIN these people or at LEAST screen these people to see if they have half a BRAIN (at least) That the company wasn't really interested in your well being or your sled's well being,,,but rather HOW MUCH oil they could sell you!!!! I DON'T endorse AMSOIL because I have NEVER used it.. I SWEAR BY KLOTZ because it has been TRIED and TESTED my MYSELF and others and WORKS FINE!!!!! KLOTZ stands behind their product and isn't about flooding the market just to make money like AMSOIL does!!!! I'm glad YOU take the time and effort to LEARN about what your selling and a big THANK YOU for the information!!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
sleddheadd
New member
thanks for the reply gary!
amsoil will let anyone sell thier product but it is up to the dealer to carry it as far as they want to go. i do not try to push or sell products that i do not know about until i do the research.then i feel comfortable enough to actually try to sell the product . i have had people call and ask about certain things but have been honest with them that i wil not sell to them unless i am sure it is right for them or if i am sure of what i am selling them. i just feel honesty is the best policy and would rather lose a sale than have someone come back and complain about what i sold them. unfortunately we do have to purchase our own study materials and do our own research but after a while it is worth it,even if only for personal knowledge!
thanks again!
amsoil will let anyone sell thier product but it is up to the dealer to carry it as far as they want to go. i do not try to push or sell products that i do not know about until i do the research.then i feel comfortable enough to actually try to sell the product . i have had people call and ask about certain things but have been honest with them that i wil not sell to them unless i am sure it is right for them or if i am sure of what i am selling them. i just feel honesty is the best policy and would rather lose a sale than have someone come back and complain about what i sold them. unfortunately we do have to purchase our own study materials and do our own research but after a while it is worth it,even if only for personal knowledge!
thanks again!
ViperTom
New member
I ran AMSOIL all last season...its the first time I've tried thier product. I just pulled my sled out of the corner of my garage and I'll be cleaning the exhaust valves in the next week or so.....I'm curious how they look after 1400 miles.
Prior to AMSOIL I ran Yamalube and the valves would get a bit of a carbon build up...but not bad.
A guy I work with is a dealer (25 years or so) and he convinced me to try it. He said he used to race in the 70's and switching to AMSOIL allowed him to run a leaner mix without burning down. He said he actually picked up a few HP running AMSOIL and mixing it lean.
The guy I bought my wifes last sled from ran KLOTZ. It had 1600 miles on it when I purchased it. I pulled the exhaust valves and they were caked in carbon and gummy oil residue. They looked much worse than any of my sleds I used Yamalube in.
Tom
Prior to AMSOIL I ran Yamalube and the valves would get a bit of a carbon build up...but not bad.
A guy I work with is a dealer (25 years or so) and he convinced me to try it. He said he used to race in the 70's and switching to AMSOIL allowed him to run a leaner mix without burning down. He said he actually picked up a few HP running AMSOIL and mixing it lean.
The guy I bought my wifes last sled from ran KLOTZ. It had 1600 miles on it when I purchased it. I pulled the exhaust valves and they were caked in carbon and gummy oil residue. They looked much worse than any of my sleds I used Yamalube in.
Tom
sleddheadd
New member
i can't wait to hear what you find out, tom!
ViperTom
New member
Well, I finally got around to checking my exhaust valves and I'm impressed. The only thing I've done is wiped it off with a paper towel. Looks great for 1400 miles since the last cleaning. I didn't even bother checking the other 2. Beats Yamalube....hands down.\
Tom
Tom
Attachments
SR433
New member
Great reading, got me interested again....
SD, Thanks for the very informative thread! I used to use Amsoil (100-1) years ago in my yard tools. Got out of the habit.....
VT - Which Amsoil are you using? Did you have to change the oil pump setting?
Reason: I've got two 2001 Phazer 500's that dont get the crap beat outa them much but might benefit from Amsoil, I've been using Yamalube with out any issues but if there's that much of a difference I might be swayed to switch!
Along those lines I have a question for SD, Since my Phazers are air cooled which Amsoil product is recommened/best suited for aircooled, oil injected engines like my Phazers?
Thanks in advance - Greg
SD, Thanks for the very informative thread! I used to use Amsoil (100-1) years ago in my yard tools. Got out of the habit.....
VT - Which Amsoil are you using? Did you have to change the oil pump setting?
Reason: I've got two 2001 Phazer 500's that dont get the crap beat outa them much but might benefit from Amsoil, I've been using Yamalube with out any issues but if there's that much of a difference I might be swayed to switch!
Along those lines I have a question for SD, Since my Phazers are air cooled which Amsoil product is recommened/best suited for aircooled, oil injected engines like my Phazers?
Thanks in advance - Greg
ViperTom
New member
SR433 said:
I use Amsoil Intercepter and as yo can see by the pics....hardly any carbon build up.
I left the oil pump setting stock...I'd rather use a little to much oil than not enough.
Tom
sleddheadd
New member
Sr433 for your phazers i would recomend the hp injector oil, that it all that you need and will do an outstanding job!
Vipertom thanks for the pics.!! that is great to see, i have never had to deal with power valves before but i love hearing and seeing results like that! also you are definitely making the right choice by using the interceptor oil. that oil is designed specifically for the use in power valve motors here is why:
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR™ Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil is formulated with a proprietary blend of the finest synthetic base oils and additives available today. This unique AMSOIL Chemistry represents a breakthrough development in the field of two-cycle engine lubrication. The backbone of AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR 2-Cycle Oil is a specially developed molecularly saturated synthetic base oil. This, combined with a robust additive package, ensures exceptional lubricity, cleanliness and optimum clean-burning characteristics. Extensive research and testing, including a full snowmobiling season in severe Rock Mountain applications, has proven that wear on cylinders, pistons and bearings is significantly reduced. And with up to 30 percent more detergency and dispersancy additives than typical two-cycle oils, AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR virtually eliminates hard carbon deposits that cause exhaust power valve sticking, ring sticking and pre-detonation promoting "hot spots" in the combustion chamber.
Prevents hard carbon deposits that cause exhaust power valve sticking and ring sticking.
Superior lubricity controls cylinder, piston and bearing wear.
Reduces smoke and odor associated with two-cycle engines.
Prevents plug fouling.
Provides exceptional SAE #4 cold temperature fluidity (-58°F pour point).
Versatile and excellent for all types of recreational equipment.
Protects against rust.
Prevents pre-detonation from combustion chamber "hot spots."
that was a small piece from an amsoil web page but i think it is very informative!
Vipertom thanks for the pics.!! that is great to see, i have never had to deal with power valves before but i love hearing and seeing results like that! also you are definitely making the right choice by using the interceptor oil. that oil is designed specifically for the use in power valve motors here is why:
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR™ Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil is formulated with a proprietary blend of the finest synthetic base oils and additives available today. This unique AMSOIL Chemistry represents a breakthrough development in the field of two-cycle engine lubrication. The backbone of AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR 2-Cycle Oil is a specially developed molecularly saturated synthetic base oil. This, combined with a robust additive package, ensures exceptional lubricity, cleanliness and optimum clean-burning characteristics. Extensive research and testing, including a full snowmobiling season in severe Rock Mountain applications, has proven that wear on cylinders, pistons and bearings is significantly reduced. And with up to 30 percent more detergency and dispersancy additives than typical two-cycle oils, AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR virtually eliminates hard carbon deposits that cause exhaust power valve sticking, ring sticking and pre-detonation promoting "hot spots" in the combustion chamber.
Prevents hard carbon deposits that cause exhaust power valve sticking and ring sticking.
Superior lubricity controls cylinder, piston and bearing wear.
Reduces smoke and odor associated with two-cycle engines.
Prevents plug fouling.
Provides exceptional SAE #4 cold temperature fluidity (-58°F pour point).
Versatile and excellent for all types of recreational equipment.
Protects against rust.
Prevents pre-detonation from combustion chamber "hot spots."
that was a small piece from an amsoil web page but i think it is very informative!
daman
New member
The only thing i don't like about hp injector oil is it's not jaso fc
certified,it's TC-W3 that's more for outboards really, but it can be
used of coarse in sleds, i just like seeing that jaso cert.
I'd rather use the the Saber™ Professional 100:1 Pre-Mix(ATP)for sleds
thats jaso fd cert. better than FC.
I too am trying amsoil for the first time this year after 18 years of
yammie lube,witch has served me great..
bought two cases($24) of interceptor for my fleet .
certified,it's TC-W3 that's more for outboards really, but it can be
used of coarse in sleds, i just like seeing that jaso cert.
I'd rather use the the Saber™ Professional 100:1 Pre-Mix(ATP)for sleds
thats jaso fd cert. better than FC.
I too am trying amsoil for the first time this year after 18 years of
yammie lube,witch has served me great..
bought two cases($24) of interceptor for my fleet .
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sleddheadd
New member
i would definitely go with the interceptor and not the sabre, unless you are planning on pre-mixing....Even though AMSOIL 2-Cycle Oils have been optimized for specific applications, they are multi-functional and recommended for use in many areas. also the hp is a great oil for sleds! i have heard nothing but good from people who use it even in the JASO applications, plus it is a little bit cheaper than the interceptor.really if your sled doesn't have power valves, hp is all you need! be sure and let us know what you think about it after running it for a while!! good or bad!!daman said:
daman
New member
sleddheadd said:i would definitely go with the interceptor and not the sabre, unless you are planning on pre-mixing....Even though AMSOIL 2-Cycle Oils have been optimized for specific applications, they are multi-functional and recommended for use in many areas. also the hp is a great oil for sleds! i have heard nothing but good from people who use it even in the JASO applications, plus it is a little bit cheaper than the interceptor.really if your sled doesn't have power valves, hp is all you need! be sure and let us know what you think about it after running it for a while!! good or bad!!
I don't want HP it's not JASO rated,but i'm shure it's a fine oil.
,i don't mind spending more $$ on the interseptor.
like i said i got two cases of interceptor sitting in my garage
so we'll see what happens..(if we ever get any snow)
i know i don't have any PV's but IMO..it's ams. best oil and it's JASO rated..
yes i'll post back with my findings,thanks for your info sleddheadd.
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sleddheadd
New member
Remember the good ol' days! 
duheme
Life Member
AMSOIL SABER is ONLY to be used as a PRE-MIX. You can run it right down to 100:1 ratio but only as a pre-mix. AMSOIL does back their oils but if you are using it improperly or in the wrong application then you have no recourse. As Sleddheadd said if your sled does not have power valves then HP injector is a perfect choice. Not to say you cannot use Interceptor or Dominator.
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snowhite
Member
What About SMOKEY ???
Everybody is talking about this Amsoil, but no one has said if the product reduces the smoking level which occurs at cold start up or just after start up anytime!I myself had a thread about my 600 venture smoking to beat the band.Also another fellow asked the same question.I use Shells Advance,it worked good in my Polaris 488.but in my Yammi I don't know, several guys' suggested to use another brand or go with Yammis' oil!!! So I don't know what to do as I really am not one for mixing up all kinds of oil in the tank.If the Ams will reduce my Smoker great i'll giv'r a try. Have fun guys' WINTER is coming!!!!!
Everybody is talking about this Amsoil, but no one has said if the product reduces the smoking level which occurs at cold start up or just after start up anytime!I myself had a thread about my 600 venture smoking to beat the band.Also another fellow asked the same question.I use Shells Advance,it worked good in my Polaris 488.but in my Yammi I don't know, several guys' suggested to use another brand or go with Yammis' oil!!! So I don't know what to do as I really am not one for mixing up all kinds of oil in the tank.If the Ams will reduce my Smoker great i'll giv'r a try. Have fun guys' WINTER is coming!!!!!
sleddheadd
New member
Amsoil does smoke but not as much as the others. you are not going to hurt anything by mixing the oil in your tank, you will only be slowly adding the benefit of synthetic oil into your system.KAPUSTA said:
what year is your venture? have you adjusted your oil pump cables? maybe you are dumping to much oil into the cylinders? check this thread. http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50386
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