MtnMax600
New member
I know most of you aren't in California, but the more signitures the better. STOP the bastards from eating away at our riding areas.
http://www.petitiononline.com/boxer/petition-sign.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/boxer/petition-sign.html
Da_Moose
New member
Absolutely NOT!
Seriously, I think your doing your cause more harm than good by asking people from other states/countries to put their name on a petition that they have absolutely no RIGHT to get involved in. First off, I don't think government officials really put that much weight in an online petition and if they did, I'm sure they would have someone verify the people signing the petition (at least some) for exactly this reason. Even if they don't, and supporters of the wilderness areas feel this petition is a viable threat they would have somebody check it for validity. Once that happens, your cause is screwed.
Unless you have gain a LOCAL concensus in your favour regarding this issue all your doing is effectively screwing everyone else in your state just so you can have a place to ride.
Seriously, I think your doing your cause more harm than good by asking people from other states/countries to put their name on a petition that they have absolutely no RIGHT to get involved in. First off, I don't think government officials really put that much weight in an online petition and if they did, I'm sure they would have someone verify the people signing the petition (at least some) for exactly this reason. Even if they don't, and supporters of the wilderness areas feel this petition is a viable threat they would have somebody check it for validity. Once that happens, your cause is screwed.
Unless you have gain a LOCAL concensus in your favour regarding this issue all your doing is effectively screwing everyone else in your state just so you can have a place to ride.
MtnMax600
New member
I see what you are saying and thats fine if you feel that way. But if any folks travel out west and ride in CA, then it can absolutely affect them as well as californians. I'm not affiliated with the creators, just passing it along. Its an issue sledders/ATV/dirtbikers/4wheelers everywhere should be concerned about.
Godster
New member
I disagree with the Moose, IMO if the states sees other than there own people signing this petition, it could only mean bad poblicity for that state and hence will turn it around for the good.
Remember, millions of tourists means billions of dollars to the state.......
thanks!
I signed the petition, and it felt great.......glad I can help......you know its not only about snomobiling its about all outdoor events, including just leisure walk, camping, hunting and fishing, and so on......take the time to think it clearly.
Remember, millions of tourists means billions of dollars to the state.......
thanks!
I signed the petition, and it felt great.......glad I can help......you know its not only about snomobiling its about all outdoor events, including just leisure walk, camping, hunting and fishing, and so on......take the time to think it clearly.
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MtnMax 600
I'm in. Us snowmobilers here in the west have got to stick together. The greens are taking all the riding areas and they won't quit till they get it all. New alert on Togie Pass, they are trying to close all areas on the north side of the highway to snowmobiles.
Check out the Wyoming Snowmobile web site.
www.snowmobilewyoming.org
Da Moose, next time you need help keeping your trails open in Quebec, don't come calling here again. I signed a petition a couple years ago at the ISC to help you all fight the Quebec trail closing by the government because a few people up there didn't like the noise when they where at their cabin two days out of the winter.
I'm in. Us snowmobilers here in the west have got to stick together. The greens are taking all the riding areas and they won't quit till they get it all. New alert on Togie Pass, they are trying to close all areas on the north side of the highway to snowmobiles.
Check out the Wyoming Snowmobile web site.
www.snowmobilewyoming.org
Da Moose, next time you need help keeping your trails open in Quebec, don't come calling here again. I signed a petition a couple years ago at the ISC to help you all fight the Quebec trail closing by the government because a few people up there didn't like the noise when they where at their cabin two days out of the winter.
SWEDE
New member
Signed the petition and have signed other ones for out west in the past.We as outdoorsmen need to stick together and help each other out.
I think this happened in western NH and Eastern VT. The wilderness was added to a national forest I believe. Unfortunately the snowmbile associations in different states aren't organized enough or the riders in midwest and eastern riders can't agree on certain issues. I get emailed from a group [ ARRA]when concerns or house or senate bills come up, concerning land use or closures. plowking
LoneViper
New member
MtnMax600, I'm in from Montana. The Forrest Service service and the tree huggers are killing us in this state. It seems we have new travel plans every where and if the forrest service feels like it, and they feel it a lot, they creat wilderness study areas which close to motorize use thus creating what we call Defacto wilderness. This is illegal and we are fighting it on every front.
We have created The Treasure State Alliance which is an umbrella for all outdoor motorised user groups in the state. We have allined ourselves with the Blue Ribbon Coalition and SAWS and are hopeing to present a united front.
This is serious business because it will sooner or later affect every individual on this site. Mark my words!
We are behind you all the way.
We have created The Treasure State Alliance which is an umbrella for all outdoor motorised user groups in the state. We have allined ourselves with the Blue Ribbon Coalition and SAWS and are hopeing to present a united front.
This is serious business because it will sooner or later affect every individual on this site. Mark my words!
We are behind you all the way.
Da_Moose
New member
MtnMax, I would like to start by apologizing for my earlier comments. For some reason I was under the impression that you are somehow affiliated with this petition and are using this forum as way of overthrowing your opposition. As I see you are not actually involved with this petition you do not deserve what I said to you or the way I treated you, so I hope you can forgive me. I do want to explain further my view on this whole situation so hopefully you and others can understand where I'm coming from. IMO for this particular petition, I feel that allowing non-California residents to sign this petition is really not that much different than allowing non-California residents to vote in the California State election for instance. Having said that, I hope you can where my disapproval is coming from.
While I agree that some non-California residents are affected by the proposed changes, and should have some say or input on the matter, I don't necessarily agree that this petition is the correct way of doing that although I could probably be easily pushed off the fence in either direction on this point. As much as I would love to sign this petition and forget it (even just to spite those tree-hugging bastards) I feel, for the sake of fairness to the people of California who’s opinions really matter I should stay out of this. It’s just not my place to possibly enact change in an area that I do not reside or travel to. For instance, lets assume this petition restricts non-residents from signing and at present it has a very large number of signatures from California residents possibly to the point that it seems a very large percentage of residents are against this “Wilderness area” proposal. On the other side, the tree-hugging bastards have posted an online petition available for tree-hugging bastards around the world to sign (many of whom have no idea what area we’re referring to like myself). Now this petition gets a significantly larger number of signatures than yours however doesn’t reflect the majority of California residents. These two petitions are brought to the Senator and simply due to the number of signatures supporting the “Wilderness area” the proposal goes through and robs you and the rest of the California population of the trails you ride. IMO this is very unfair to the people of California and want no part of it. This is also what I meant by ‘screwing’ the people of California that I mentioned in my earlier post. You and others may not agree (or care) but I do so I’m sorry I must (respectfully this time) refuse to sign this petition.
When the did I ever ask you or anyone on this site for help keeping trails open in Quebec? Aside from the fact I’m from ONTARIO, I think the reasons I explained above pretty much explain why this would never happen. To be frank, I don’t want you or anyone else here who doesn’t live in or at the very least often travel to Ontario to have any say in what happens in Ontario. I don’t have a problem with you having an opinion on what goes on here but you don’t have a right to enact change here. I’m sorry if you feel I’m betraying sledders everywhere by not signing my name but I don’t believe I have the right to affect what happens in California just as you don’t in Ontario.
While I agree that some non-California residents are affected by the proposed changes, and should have some say or input on the matter, I don't necessarily agree that this petition is the correct way of doing that although I could probably be easily pushed off the fence in either direction on this point. As much as I would love to sign this petition and forget it (even just to spite those tree-hugging bastards) I feel, for the sake of fairness to the people of California who’s opinions really matter I should stay out of this. It’s just not my place to possibly enact change in an area that I do not reside or travel to. For instance, lets assume this petition restricts non-residents from signing and at present it has a very large number of signatures from California residents possibly to the point that it seems a very large percentage of residents are against this “Wilderness area” proposal. On the other side, the tree-hugging bastards have posted an online petition available for tree-hugging bastards around the world to sign (many of whom have no idea what area we’re referring to like myself). Now this petition gets a significantly larger number of signatures than yours however doesn’t reflect the majority of California residents. These two petitions are brought to the Senator and simply due to the number of signatures supporting the “Wilderness area” the proposal goes through and robs you and the rest of the California population of the trails you ride. IMO this is very unfair to the people of California and want no part of it. This is also what I meant by ‘screwing’ the people of California that I mentioned in my earlier post. You and others may not agree (or care) but I do so I’m sorry I must (respectfully this time) refuse to sign this petition.
snomoguy said:Da Moose, next time you need help keeping your trails open in Quebec, don't come calling here again. I signed a petition a couple years ago at the ISC to help you all fight the Quebec trail closing by the government because a few people up there didn't like the noise when they where at their cabin two days out of the winter.
When the did I ever ask you or anyone on this site for help keeping trails open in Quebec? Aside from the fact I’m from ONTARIO, I think the reasons I explained above pretty much explain why this would never happen. To be frank, I don’t want you or anyone else here who doesn’t live in or at the very least often travel to Ontario to have any say in what happens in Ontario. I don’t have a problem with you having an opinion on what goes on here but you don’t have a right to enact change here. I’m sorry if you feel I’m betraying sledders everywhere by not signing my name but I don’t believe I have the right to affect what happens in California just as you don’t in Ontario.
This isn't about getting envolved or not with different areas. It is getting envolved as snowmobilers and "fighting to protect our right to ride" and preserving the snowmobiling way of life for ourselves and our children and their children.
MtnMax600
New member
MOOSE-I didnt take offense to it. Most people would just choose to sign or not sign, but not slam the cause. Its your right to not want to sign for your reasons, and i can respect that...so apology accepted, tho i still disagree with you.
These riding areas are mostly CA or NV riders but there are people who travel to ride these areas from all over the place. I met a group of guys from Whistler BC just last weekend. So I have a hard time thinking it doesnt have a very far reaching effect, well beyond Cali and even US borders. Like snomoguy said its about fighting for our right to ride. I know Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, lots of places in B.C. canada have the same crap going on with the greenies.
[BEGIN RANT]
Its frustrating when they act like they own the land, as if cross country skiers or hikers would EVER be able to get access to areas sleds can go. I have never seen a CC skier at 10,000FT peaks enjoying the views. The trails they enjoy are paid for by the green sticker WE pay for registration, but they just cruise along up the middle of the trail and get mad when sleds go by. Then they try to shut it down. I mean if there were issues of sleds tearing up the land they would have more ground to stand on, but come summertime there is no evidence we were ever there. These are the issues we face if we want to continue to enjoy the best sport on earth. Helping out whenever we can benefits everyone involved.
[END RANT]
Perhaps in Ontario there is not such a large greenie factor as california, but if they were trying to take all your favorite places to ride away, you would sure as hell try to drum up support for your sport.
Grant
These riding areas are mostly CA or NV riders but there are people who travel to ride these areas from all over the place. I met a group of guys from Whistler BC just last weekend. So I have a hard time thinking it doesnt have a very far reaching effect, well beyond Cali and even US borders. Like snomoguy said its about fighting for our right to ride. I know Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, lots of places in B.C. canada have the same crap going on with the greenies.
[BEGIN RANT]
Its frustrating when they act like they own the land, as if cross country skiers or hikers would EVER be able to get access to areas sleds can go. I have never seen a CC skier at 10,000FT peaks enjoying the views. The trails they enjoy are paid for by the green sticker WE pay for registration, but they just cruise along up the middle of the trail and get mad when sleds go by. Then they try to shut it down. I mean if there were issues of sleds tearing up the land they would have more ground to stand on, but come summertime there is no evidence we were ever there. These are the issues we face if we want to continue to enjoy the best sport on earth. Helping out whenever we can benefits everyone involved.
[END RANT]
Perhaps in Ontario there is not such a large greenie factor as california, but if they were trying to take all your favorite places to ride away, you would sure as hell try to drum up support for your sport.
Grant
Vmax540
VIP Member
I have a problem giving my e-mail address especially, since it's is mandatory..... I can understand your mailing address or even phone # to verify you're legit but, I don't need any more spam in my inbox...... !
MtnMax600
New member
Yeah, i dont like giving it either, but i have like 20 different ones. I just used one that i use for online crap that might send spam. Tho they claim they "wont send spam" if you click on the private option. We'll see.
ONE TREE HUGGER gets into a COMMERCIAL jet and flies to WASHINGTON D.C from somewhere in CALIFORNIA will ACTUALLY produce MORE POLLUTANTS in ONE TRIP than I will produce enjoying ALL MY TOYS for MY ENTIRE LIFE!!!! These tree huggers lobbying against us are ACTUALLY CREATING MORE POLLUTION in 1 day of lobbying,, THAN WE WILL PRODUCE in OUR WHOLE LIVES!!!! HORRAY for them and SCREW US????? I SIGNED the petition!!!!
Yamahasrx700
Member
Done Deal