Do I need smaller pilots or???

[Yama49601]

I put these Bender pipes on last year and I'm sure some of you remember how hard of a time I had getting the thing to even run after putting them in. Bender tried selling me 55 pilots when I ordered the pipes but I told them I wanted 52.5's, and even those turned out to be way too rich. I finally got it pretty much figured out (thank you mrviper700) by putting 50 pilots in and it runs decent. But, the thing is a dog at lower rpm's. Once the motor gets to 5000 rpm's it cleans up instantly and runs great. But below 5000 it acts like it's loading up and like it's gonna puke. I thought I just needed to get my fuel screws adjusted right and I (finally) put remote adjusters on it this year. I have went all the way from 1/2 turn out, which is too lean (it doesn't want to idle down) then to about 5/8's out and it gets slightly better (it starts to idle down some) but right now I have them at 1 turn out and the thins still won't run right. So now I don't know what to think. The only thing I can figure is I need to lower my needles possibly? If your pilot jeys are a little too big can't you get them to adjust down enough with the fuel screws? It only makes sense that you can since it meters the fuel from the pilots right? Or is that wrong? What amd I doing wrong with this thing? I'm really sick of riding it like this. It doesn't sound good at all unless I'm on the gas somewhat and I hate people looking at me like my sled is a POS because of the way it sounds when it's doing this. When I am stopped or rolling or going slow and it's under 5000 RPM's I have to "feather" or "pump" the throttle like 2-3 times in order to minimize this. Well that's how I've been riding it because it's the easiest way to get it to build the RPM's up over 5000. Should I try 47.5 pilots? Or don't you think that's my problem? I'm gonna lower the needles tomorrow 1/2 anyway to see what that does since it cleaned this up before I ever had pipes on it. But I'm not sure it's the same exact thing now. Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[terret725]

ok. i went with smaller pilots but opened ur fule screws more the stock? thats pretty much putting it at the same as the 55s give or take. what does it do on low end? pilots only effect 0% to 25% throtel mostly. can effect a little after that but very limited. if its too rich it would seem like running on choke down low. u sure its not too lean? be like when u try giving it the gas befor its warmed up. just goes blaaaa. insted of a rich big wich tryes to rev but is realy slow getting up on rmps. needle effects 25/75% throtle and mains are are on WOT. would be easyer to diegnose with some input from u. hard to remeber from last year u know. we need to know what its doin and how much throtel ur giving it. also never rule out an electrical problem. seen sleds come in to work where the guys are like ive rejeted richer leaner still have top end lost on power and i check spark its good. but didnt use a inline tester and see that spark cuts out on top end. while the entire head ache of rejeting could have be eliminated if they tested the coils.

 

[Yama49601]

Well I already said pretty much everything I needed to I thought, that's all I could think to tell you when I typed that. One thing I left out though is that I have tried turning the choke on when it's in the RPM range that it's doing this at and it's worse. That's how I know it's not too lean now. It wants to stall as soon as I turn the choke on. When I was messing with the fuel screws and had it all the way down to 1/2 turn out (when it didn't want to idle down) I hit the choke to half and in instantly idled right down. That's why I went back to 1 turn out (which is still less than stock would be, but I don't think it matters what stock turns out are once you've rejetted?). But going from 1/2 turn out and having it too lean to 1 turn out and it acting like the pilots must be right is what makes no sense to me. I know that the pilots are only supposed to affect up to like 1/4 throttle. That's why I'm confused. I really wish I could get this figured out. I'm pretty much positive this isn't an electrical problem because the thing ran perfect before I put these pipes on. And I've never gotten it to run right since I put the pipes in. It's stored indoors always and I cleaned the carbs before I ever started it this year. It has electric start and I put in a brand new battery this week (not that that has anythng to do with this, but...) mrviper700 is the one who finally helped me at least get it to run good enough to ride it last year. Everyone kept telling me there was no way I should need 50 pilots, Bender had told me to put a 50 in one cylinder and 52.5's in the other 2 since the one plug was getting so soaked with the 52.5 in it. But Don told me to just put 50's in all 3 and as soon as I did that it was a night and day difference. Before that I could barely even keep it running. It would foul the plugs like mad. I just don't understand why it is that it's like you've flipped a switch when it hits 5000 RPM's and just tears. If it was too lean it would run better when I turn the choke on, but it wants to puke. This is something retarded and I just haven't figured it out (yet).

 

[mrviper700]

have you checked to make sure the carbs are sync'd?

whats the idle speed?

wheres your clutch engagement?


does this engine have the stock headgasket in it or is it peeled?

 

[Newfoundlander]

I have a 02 mm 700 that I just put bender triples on and it is doing the same thing it seems stumbly to 5000 and perfect after that I am running 50 pilots at 1.5 turns. Mine seems like a lean stumble the plugs are not loading up so I have 52.5's ordered to try them out. I don't have the remote screw adjusters but it will be a purchase very soon.

 

[Yama49601]

I haven't checked the carbs, and I don't know how unless you can just use a drill bit or something like that? Or do I need a gauge?

The idle speed is 1600RPM's.

Right this minute I can't tell you what the engagement is for sure, but it's what it's supposed to be with the 89L weight set-up. I just forgot what it is and I haven't been paying attention to that.

The head gasket is peeled. But it did this before I did the head gasket mod too, and if I remember correctly (I did that last year) it ran a little bit better after I did that.

 

[mrviper700]

idle speeds a tad low maybe try 1800-2000rpm with pipes

to check your carbs syc, just remove the airbox and yes, you can use a drill bit, see if the bit whatever size will just barely drag under the back edge of the slide while at rest, should be the same in all 3, then just barely crack the throttle about a 1/4 push and recheck with a bigger bit, shouls again be exactly the same.

report back results.

 

[jwiedmayer]

I run 55 with benders, porting and a gutted airbox.

 

[bufalobob]

'01 sxr 700 w/bender triple pipes with STOCK HEAD GASKET:

pilots: 47.5
mains: 150
needle: stock
primary:
weights: stock ( 8df-10 ), tip - 4.5 gr. mid.: - stock
spring: bender gold
secondary:
helix: bender 9960
spring: stock @ 80*

splitting the head gasket is not recommended for trail riding. this removes the sealing surface & can result in engine failure.

bob

 

[mrviper700]

Have done 100's of headgasket peels and have yet to have one fail and cause engine damage, but if someone says the sky is blue, bob will report its red where he is at sunset, nothing new here.

 

[Yama49601]

I just posted in my overheating thread about what happened with mine (head gaskets) but it was my own fault. I used the used ones with over 5000 miles on them and they leaked which cause me to think I still had air in the system from having my rear heat exchanger off. Gotta get new gaskets then I'll be checking carb sync and turning up the idle. I really appreciate all the help with this, I would have given up on it by now probably without it.

 

[yamyrider]

I reused my gaskets when I did the thinner gasket mod. Even after re-ringing tha machine I installed my same old gaskets without any troubles or leaks. Did you use the sticky spray before installing the gasket.

 

[Yama49601]

Yes I used Permatex Copper spray but I may have used too much. Did you do it like they say to on the Tech pages for this? That says to not use the center layer. To use one or both of the outer layers and that's what I did. I used both outer layers. I just wanted to make sure I'm using the right part of it.

 

[yamyrider]

before I was piped I ran only one of the outer layers and put the other outer layer on the shelf. A year later when I piped my machine I reinstalled the second outer layer that had been sitting on the shelf for a year. I am currently using the 2 outer layers with spary between both and on the outside of both....no failures.

 

[yamyrider]

Oh ya, I have been running the split gasket for 3000 miles and no troubles at all.

 

[Yama49601]

ok thanks.

 

[Yama49601]

Hey I got a question that hopefully someone can answer quickly. I got this apart and the rubber coating on these gaskets is coming off in some areas. Should I scrub all of that off then use the spray? Or just leave what rubber coating is still on them on the gaskets and spary over it? Please answer soon if you can I'm out at a friends working on it and need to leave to get my kids soon, I'd like to get it back together before I have to leave. Thanks.

 

[mrviper700]

clean it all off, use a brillo pad and laq thinner and dont rush this, you have to wait for the hi tack spray to dry.

 

[Yama49601]

Ok thank you. I'm glad you said you need to clean it all off. I'm sure that was my problem. Those pics on the tech pages clearly show the rubber coating on if I remember correctly but maybe that's with new(er) gaskets and it wouldn't matter then? At any rate it doesn't matter. I'll get them all cleaned good and put it back together tomorrow. I'm gonna post a few pics of my pistons to see if you can tell anything about my jetting with these pipes too. I'll post them in a minute. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Yama49601]

Here's the pictures of my pistons. The order is mag, center then pto. To me the pto looks fine? and the other too lean maybe? I'm still learning how to read this though so maybe I'm totally wrong. What do you think just from looking at them?