mopar1rules
Active member
what angle is this helix?
Part# 6ms7 (its on a 98 xtc 600)
Part# 6ms7 (its on a 98 xtc 600)
based on limited info, should be a 47 degree.
mopar1rules
Active member
yeah, but I don't think this helix is stock. when the sled was purchased like 6 years ago, the previous owner thought that there was some clutch kit on it. I found out that the weights and springs were changed, and now it has me thinking if the helix if even stock
I dont know the paticular angle of this helix, but its not uncommon for the aftermarket clutch kits to use a straight helix angle, even the same as a stock one in thier kit. I have checked other helix brands and they all have done it, its a rip off I know, but thats how they sell clutch kits. They add that $100 helix to the clutch kit, if it was just springs, and rivets they wouldnt be able to make as much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
mopar1rules
Active member
that's kinda what i was thinking. its probably a straight 47deg.
you can get pretty close taking a thin peice of cardboard/posterboard and make it sit on the flat of the helix base, trace the ramp and then use a protractor to find the angles of the start and finish.
i guess if its a straight helix if u check with a protractor the finish and the start angle of the helix it will be on the same line from the protractor ???hard to explain i'm french lolll i just try too learn
jwiedmayer
New member
I'm intrigued by this method too. But don't fully understand where you are laying the paper.
mrviper700 said:
maybe I can make a little photo step by step to help you guys out, give me a little time, will post somethin for you guys in the FAQ section if it will help.
mopar1rules
Active member
what i've done in the past too, was put masking tape on the side of the helix ramp. this way it can't move on you because it sticks to the helix. then pull tape off and stick to paper and then measure the angle with a protractor.
how close it is with the real number if u check with a protractor
800
New member
I outlined this way of measuring a helix on a post in the other forum the other day.
Take a piece of thin cardboard, wrap it around the helix with the straight edge of the paperat the bottom of the ramp, it will stay straight along the machined step on the outside of the helix.
Trace the ramp profile on the paper. Lay it out flat, take a straight edge and extend a line from the begining to the tip of the ramp and measure the angle with a protractor. This will give you an idea of the angle.
If it is a multi angle helix do the same process twice. Mark 3 points on the line which you traced on the paper, the first being at the bottom of the ramp, the second at the half way point, the third at the tip. Extend two straight lines, one from the bottom to the mid point, another from the mid point to the tip point, check both angles, it will give a good idea of what it is. It ends up being very close.
Take a piece of thin cardboard, wrap it around the helix with the straight edge of the paperat the bottom of the ramp, it will stay straight along the machined step on the outside of the helix.
Trace the ramp profile on the paper. Lay it out flat, take a straight edge and extend a line from the begining to the tip of the ramp and measure the angle with a protractor. This will give you an idea of the angle.
If it is a multi angle helix do the same process twice. Mark 3 points on the line which you traced on the paper, the first being at the bottom of the ramp, the second at the half way point, the third at the tip. Extend two straight lines, one from the bottom to the mid point, another from the mid point to the tip point, check both angles, it will give a good idea of what it is. It ends up being very close.
mopar1rules
Active member
hey that's a good idea with the line and 3 points. i'll have to try that. thanks.
mopar1rules
Active member
I measured the 6ms7 helix, using masking tape that I stuck to the side of the helix ramp, and the traced the ramp profile onto the tape. I took the tape off and measured the line (that had the 3 point method) and came up with 51/48. Does that even sound right or possible?
800
New member
I think the tape may be messing you up, what you trace to must be stiffer to follow the radius of the outside of the helix as you trace, you may be close though a common number is low 50's mid 40's your 48 may be incorrect.
You can use paper but you'll end up pushing the pen through it.
You can use paper but you'll end up pushing the pen through it.
Your not going to get exact numbers doing it this way, but it can give you an IDEA of what the angles are, when you trace the angles there will be errors, the width of the pencil lead/pen, and simple human error reading the protractor will only be so exact, and even more importantly to read the angles the paper must be exactly level 90 degrees to the floor/ramp surface, you will also notice the ramps are sometimes cut slightly below the flats, and a big radius. Dont sweat it too much, Its just a idea, dont worry if you cant seem to get the exact degree. Like I said before, I have checked marked helixs and found discrepiances as to the angles, the digital cad machine is the only way to the exact degree your gonna know.
Theres 2 helixs from bender that i checked on the cad machine that use a 48 degree finsih, so you can have a 48 finsih, its whatever they the clutch kit makers wanted.
Theres 2 helixs from bender that i checked on the cad machine that use a 48 degree finsih, so you can have a 48 finsih, its whatever they the clutch kit makers wanted.
mopar1rules
Active member
ok. I checked and measured the stock viper helix (47deg), to see what I got there. you know, to see how accurate this method is getting the same angle as what the helix is said to be. Well I keep getting 50 deg and the helix is suppose to measure 47. mrviper, would a guy just put the helix on the cmm (coordinate measuring machine), or could you put it in a machining center and then maybe use this method.......place helix onto a rotary table into a vertical machining center or knee mill and have a indicator on the helix ramp. i'm talking a indicator that has like at least 1" of travel. the plunger style. then turn the rotary table an "x" number of degrees and see how much the indicator needle moves. Then couldn't you take the "X" distance the indicator moves, with the degrees the rotary head moves, and then if you know the radius you are away from the center of the helix, couldn't you use a formula to figure out the circumference of a circle of that radius? then on a circle of "that" circumferance, you would know "X" distance in "Y" amount of degrees. then use trig formulas to get the angle. i can't explain very well what the wheels in my head are spinning out
ok, now this question is a little off the subject of original question, but still deals with a helix. I want to make my own helix. i want to know, how does a guy know how many degrees from one of the 3 bolt holes to place the 4 holes that are used on spring wrap. also, like how long to make the helix ramps and how many degrees off of one of the 3 bolt holes to the tip of a ramp? I can make one, as I run a vertical machining center (thats soon to get a 4th axis), I just don't know the "engineering" aspects of the helix.
ok, now this question is a little off the subject of original question, but still deals with a helix. I want to make my own helix. i want to know, how does a guy know how many degrees from one of the 3 bolt holes to place the 4 holes that are used on spring wrap. also, like how long to make the helix ramps and how many degrees off of one of the 3 bolt holes to the tip of a ramp? I can make one, as I run a vertical machining center (thats soon to get a 4th axis), I just don't know the "engineering" aspects of the helix.
remember the stock helix are just cast, so you will find certain discrepencies there.
Like i said, it will give you a idea, notexact as the pencil leadwidth, pen width and then the quality of the protractor, none of thisis precise by any means, but its better then nothing.
You might be able to read it on the machine that way, I know my shop uses the "xyz" program and it zeros off the base that you see machined in the helix inside, thats your 90 degree surface, all else is read from start to finish. I might be able to post a sheet, i need to scan one to show you, its a 3d drawing you get that shows the ramps from the base. As far as laying out the holes youd have to make the program from a machined helix andput in all the corrdinates and then cut yourramps from there.
Like i said, it will give you a idea, notexact as the pencil leadwidth, pen width and then the quality of the protractor, none of thisis precise by any means, but its better then nothing.
You might be able to read it on the machine that way, I know my shop uses the "xyz" program and it zeros off the base that you see machined in the helix inside, thats your 90 degree surface, all else is read from start to finish. I might be able to post a sheet, i need to scan one to show you, its a 3d drawing you get that shows the ramps from the base. As far as laying out the holes youd have to make the program from a machined helix andput in all the corrdinates and then cut yourramps from there.
mopar1rules
Active member
yeah, i figured since it was cast (stock helix) that there would be some tolerance. i'm still a little confused on how to make a helix with what you are trying to explain to me.