gmcdunnah
New member
everyone says the new fuel at the pump (reg and plus) is burning up their engines because on the ethanol? they havent got it super yet from what i heard and that snowmobile dealships arnt covering warranties on engines cause of this, i guess their is an additive you can buy but i guess its not guaruntteed to work? anyone got opinions or tips?
horkn
New member
Don't believe the hype.
If anything the poor fuel that you have in rural Maine is the cause from years of previous poor quality gas. Any water that was in the fuel tanks at the stations will be absorbed by the e10 gas. Once that is taken care of, you won't have any issues.
I used to live in Bethel, Maine, so I know how it goes out there, and most of WI switched to e10 about 15+ years ago.
You may get some clogged fuel filters from older sleds using the new e10 gas, but it will not kill motors unless you are jetted on the edge with non oxygenated gas.
Jet 1-2 jet sizes bigger for safety, unless you run stock jets, then those are good. Modded sleds may need some tinkering.
E10 is NOT evil, just different. In many cases e10 will help, because it will prevent carb icing due to the alcohol. However, e10 does not store as long as well, and is supposed to give slightly less mpg than non oxygenated fuels.
I work for a company that sells emission equipment to Ethanol plants, among other companies like Bombardier, Boeing, GM, Hyundai, 3m, and other large companies.
If anything the poor fuel that you have in rural Maine is the cause from years of previous poor quality gas. Any water that was in the fuel tanks at the stations will be absorbed by the e10 gas. Once that is taken care of, you won't have any issues.
I used to live in Bethel, Maine, so I know how it goes out there, and most of WI switched to e10 about 15+ years ago.
You may get some clogged fuel filters from older sleds using the new e10 gas, but it will not kill motors unless you are jetted on the edge with non oxygenated gas.
Jet 1-2 jet sizes bigger for safety, unless you run stock jets, then those are good. Modded sleds may need some tinkering.
E10 is NOT evil, just different. In many cases e10 will help, because it will prevent carb icing due to the alcohol. However, e10 does not store as long as well, and is supposed to give slightly less mpg than non oxygenated fuels.
I work for a company that sells emission equipment to Ethanol plants, among other companies like Bombardier, Boeing, GM, Hyundai, 3m, and other large companies.
Last edited:
well iv ben hearing alot about sleds burning up around here and every one is blaming it on the gas so idk but i think its from the gas i dont dare to hold mine across the lake i pulled the plugs and they were pure white
Dave M
New member
hot shot said:
Yep...and last year they were blaming it on the oil....
Maybe next year they will blame it on global warming.
If thats the case, some carb tuning may be the answer. Hopefully the fuel tech guru's can shine some light on the subject.hot shot said:
I have to say that the Global warming statement is funny as hell !
Dave,Hows the new Walmart? We did all the concrete.
horkn
New member
Sno-Xr said:
Obviously you need to use your judgement. If it looks lean, jet up.
racerrob6m
New member
Fuel quality ???
Maybe its a regional thing.
Horkn says they been running the E10 sh** for many years with no problems.
Good for WI.
I can tell ya that here in OR, it is an issue & the OR state marine board has recognised it as such and issued the following info bulletin for the boat community & their 2 strokes:
http://www.osmb.state.or.us/OSMB/news/E10.shtml
An interresting read & in talking with local mechanics, the fuel IS a problem that you have to be careful of, at least here in OR.
Our brilliant Gov mandated this fuel as of Sept 1st 07, so we have NO option.
See, hes one of those "green Gov", he figures we need to be ALL electric cars here in 5-8 years.
Here is another link to more interesting articles regarding the fine qualites of ethanol in fuel for the small engine group & 2 stoke community.
http://www.crappie.com/crappie/tenn...fect-2-cycle-outboard-engines.html#post616968
Not here to argue the point but more to educate & be aware of the issues that ARE out there with this stuff. The issues ARE NOT LEGENDS, STORIES, or BS. THEY ARE REAL!!
I firmly believe that not ALL ethanol is created equal & therefore there ARE problems with it.
I have a buddy on a ranch in SD who was telling me about all of the issues he was having with his small Honda motors on his grain augers & gen sets when the ethanol hit his area a few years back. All the carbs had to be rebuilt due to the gaskets getting eaten by this fine fuel. Hmmmm?
He now makes sure that he does NOT use ethanol on his ranch. Interesting. In fact, as with most large ranches, he has the huge fuel tank storage units for both diesel & gas set up & absolutely will not use ANY ethanol.
Same story here locally in the small engine shops..but..it is good business for the guys.!! Lots of rebuilds in the carbs & fuel lines areas. Something about the "solvent action" of the ethanol??
In autos & trucks, it works due to the fuel management systems as I have been told by my auto mechaninc buddy. But here again, the "high quality" of this fuel cost us gas mileage. I lost right at 1.5-2 mpg after we were forced to run the SH** here in OR.
So, when I hear someone say its great or good fuel, I do have to wonder why we have these issues. So, like I said above, there must be different qualities of the ethanol across the country.
I know I hate the stuff, between dropping the fuel mileage in my business truck that I drive 40k miles per year & losing a Phazer motor last year to this fine fuel...count me in on being a happy user...LOL !!
My advice, dont use it if ya dont have to, but when thats all ya have, dont buy the "cheap" fuel, watch your stuff & dont store any of the ethanol. Check the shelf life... basically..none. I dont count 6-8 weeks as shelf life!!
Maybe its a regional thing.
Horkn says they been running the E10 sh** for many years with no problems.
Good for WI.
I can tell ya that here in OR, it is an issue & the OR state marine board has recognised it as such and issued the following info bulletin for the boat community & their 2 strokes:
http://www.osmb.state.or.us/OSMB/news/E10.shtml
An interresting read & in talking with local mechanics, the fuel IS a problem that you have to be careful of, at least here in OR.
Our brilliant Gov mandated this fuel as of Sept 1st 07, so we have NO option.
See, hes one of those "green Gov", he figures we need to be ALL electric cars here in 5-8 years.
Here is another link to more interesting articles regarding the fine qualites of ethanol in fuel for the small engine group & 2 stoke community.
http://www.crappie.com/crappie/tenn...fect-2-cycle-outboard-engines.html#post616968
Not here to argue the point but more to educate & be aware of the issues that ARE out there with this stuff. The issues ARE NOT LEGENDS, STORIES, or BS. THEY ARE REAL!!
I firmly believe that not ALL ethanol is created equal & therefore there ARE problems with it.
I have a buddy on a ranch in SD who was telling me about all of the issues he was having with his small Honda motors on his grain augers & gen sets when the ethanol hit his area a few years back. All the carbs had to be rebuilt due to the gaskets getting eaten by this fine fuel. Hmmmm?
He now makes sure that he does NOT use ethanol on his ranch. Interesting. In fact, as with most large ranches, he has the huge fuel tank storage units for both diesel & gas set up & absolutely will not use ANY ethanol.
Same story here locally in the small engine shops..but..it is good business for the guys.!! Lots of rebuilds in the carbs & fuel lines areas. Something about the "solvent action" of the ethanol??
In autos & trucks, it works due to the fuel management systems as I have been told by my auto mechaninc buddy. But here again, the "high quality" of this fuel cost us gas mileage. I lost right at 1.5-2 mpg after we were forced to run the SH** here in OR.
So, when I hear someone say its great or good fuel, I do have to wonder why we have these issues. So, like I said above, there must be different qualities of the ethanol across the country.
I know I hate the stuff, between dropping the fuel mileage in my business truck that I drive 40k miles per year & losing a Phazer motor last year to this fine fuel...count me in on being a happy user...LOL !!
My advice, dont use it if ya dont have to, but when thats all ya have, dont buy the "cheap" fuel, watch your stuff & dont store any of the ethanol. Check the shelf life... basically..none. I dont count 6-8 weeks as shelf life!!
horkn
New member
My 97 venture has an oxygenated fuel switch on it under the hood near the steering hoop. I never use it, even with e10 fuel.
I have never had an issue, and neither have any of our 6 sleds , 4 wheeler, countless cars, 4 Outboard motors, Ski nautique with a 351W, weed whackers, generators, snowblowers tractors, lawn mowers, rotottillers, trimmers, leaf blowers, go carts, and let me think.... ummm, 5 motorcycles 2 and 4 stroke.
But Rob, you are 100% correct with the statement that not all oxygenated fuel is the same formula. There is a great article in this months snowtech that discusses this.
That article also says that all the formulas are fine, provided you know what you are getting if you have a built machine. That article also states that some folks still will not run it, regardless of the proof that it works just fine.
I have never had an issue, and neither have any of our 6 sleds , 4 wheeler, countless cars, 4 Outboard motors, Ski nautique with a 351W, weed whackers, generators, snowblowers tractors, lawn mowers, rotottillers, trimmers, leaf blowers, go carts, and let me think.... ummm, 5 motorcycles 2 and 4 stroke.
But Rob, you are 100% correct with the statement that not all oxygenated fuel is the same formula. There is a great article in this months snowtech that discusses this.
That article also says that all the formulas are fine, provided you know what you are getting if you have a built machine. That article also states that some folks still will not run it, regardless of the proof that it works just fine.
We need to start removing the "Builts Machines" references out of this. This is happening to many, many stock and never touched sleds. We all know built machine are always at risk on many levels. This is not a problem directly connected to "Built Machines"
I quote myself in a previous post:
"I wonder why there is a sudden surge of engines blowing up around here in Maine (myself being one). Brand new sleds are going down at such a rate that several dealers are busy as can be with rebuilds. And, several sleds that have never had a problem in as many as 1000-2000 miles+ are suddenly going down. Say what you want. Not all these sleds are tampered with. Many have just pulled them out of storage as they have year after year, done the typical maintainence, run them, put gas in and boom! It is very ironic that this is happening and the only thing that has changed around here is the gas. Myth or no myth."
I quote myself in a previous post:
"I wonder why there is a sudden surge of engines blowing up around here in Maine (myself being one). Brand new sleds are going down at such a rate that several dealers are busy as can be with rebuilds. And, several sleds that have never had a problem in as many as 1000-2000 miles+ are suddenly going down. Say what you want. Not all these sleds are tampered with. Many have just pulled them out of storage as they have year after year, done the typical maintainence, run them, put gas in and boom! It is very ironic that this is happening and the only thing that has changed around here is the gas. Myth or no myth."
horkn
New member
The reason I keep using the terms "built machine" in there because all of our sleds have stock jetting (or maybe 1 size lower), and NO issues in 15+ years, and thousands of miles of use.
I wonder how many of these stock motors on more than 1 year old sleds that are "blowing up" are maintained properly, ie carbs cleaned, fuel filters replaced, and stored properly?
As far as the new ones, that is for the dealers to fix. Improper setup can cause that if they rejet.
Or, they have a lot of water left over in their old fuel tanks and the new e10 soaks a lot of it up? There are several formulas to make gas. One way is a lower octane base fuel, with e10 added to raise the octane. I have a hunch the places that are having issues are due to water from tanks, and low quality base fuels being used.
I won't be narcisisstic and quote myself, but anyone with questions should do some research and find out what fuel they are being served.
www.ethanol.com as stated before is a good source.
then again YMMV.....
I wonder how many of these stock motors on more than 1 year old sleds that are "blowing up" are maintained properly, ie carbs cleaned, fuel filters replaced, and stored properly?
As far as the new ones, that is for the dealers to fix. Improper setup can cause that if they rejet.
Or, they have a lot of water left over in their old fuel tanks and the new e10 soaks a lot of it up? There are several formulas to make gas. One way is a lower octane base fuel, with e10 added to raise the octane. I have a hunch the places that are having issues are due to water from tanks, and low quality base fuels being used.
I won't be narcisisstic and quote myself, but anyone with questions should do some research and find out what fuel they are being served.
www.ethanol.com as stated before is a good source.
then again YMMV.....
Last edited:
racerrob6m
New member
FUEL Quality 2
Posted by Zachalyse:
I wonder why there is a sudden surge of engines blowing up around here in Maine (myself being one). Brand new sleds are going down at such a rate that several dealers are busy as can be with rebuilds. And, several sleds that have never had a problem in as many as 1000-2000 miles+ are suddenly going down. Say what you want. Not all these sleds are tampered with. Many have just pulled them out of storage as they have year after year, done the typical maintainence, run them, put gas in and boom! It is very ironic that this is happening and the only thing that has changed around here is the gas. Myth or no myth."
I agree 100% with this post. Not to argue the points as Horkn has shown that his experiences have been outstanding but...there are TOO many motor failures in motors that have NOT BEEN BUILT or screwed with.
My wifes Phazer2 motor loss last season was a great example & the biggest eye opener to me. Sled with just under 3000 miles.
A) Sled is stock except DG pipe & Boyssen's
B) Jetted fat because I "have been there done that" running them on the edge. Stupid!! And besides that, she could care less about "a bit more speed" LOL !!
C) We have had 6 Phazers for her, 85,86,88,90,92 & now the 93 which we purchased 3 years ago. I know how to run em & store em... I thought!!
D) The ONLY change in all those years was..... FUEL supply.
With well over 10,000 miles under our belt in all of these sleds & only ONE failure, I am guessing my diagnostic's of where the failure was are pretty good. The pistons looked good etc. etc. It was a rod bearing failure due to rust. Hmmm...could it be that the "moisture characteristics" of the ethanol had something to do with this and the fact that the ethanol also has "solvent characteristics" known to "clean things". Pretty sure thats where it was. Again, from my standpoint of being in snowmobiles since 68, not tweaking this motor, etc.etc. the only thing left in my mind was the fantastic fuel supply.
So with this knowledge of the quality of the fuel we have, at least here in OR, one must adjust accordingly.
And hey Zach, reading your post on your "meltdown", I am in agreement with Yammiegod, I bet it was some high quality fuel ya got there. Maybe your fuel supply is coming from OR...LOL
It just sucks when ya have to be sooo careful what you do when buying fuel. Give me the good old straight non oxygenated stuff. If it aint broke, why in the hell do they have to F*** with it...oh yeah...its the global warming BS.
Guys, when ya lose a motor the next time & its fuel related..call Al Gore & send him the bill!!
Enough ranting, I feel better.
Rob
Posted by Zachalyse:
I wonder why there is a sudden surge of engines blowing up around here in Maine (myself being one). Brand new sleds are going down at such a rate that several dealers are busy as can be with rebuilds. And, several sleds that have never had a problem in as many as 1000-2000 miles+ are suddenly going down. Say what you want. Not all these sleds are tampered with. Many have just pulled them out of storage as they have year after year, done the typical maintainence, run them, put gas in and boom! It is very ironic that this is happening and the only thing that has changed around here is the gas. Myth or no myth."
I agree 100% with this post. Not to argue the points as Horkn has shown that his experiences have been outstanding but...there are TOO many motor failures in motors that have NOT BEEN BUILT or screwed with.
My wifes Phazer2 motor loss last season was a great example & the biggest eye opener to me. Sled with just under 3000 miles.
A) Sled is stock except DG pipe & Boyssen's
B) Jetted fat because I "have been there done that" running them on the edge. Stupid!! And besides that, she could care less about "a bit more speed" LOL !!
C) We have had 6 Phazers for her, 85,86,88,90,92 & now the 93 which we purchased 3 years ago. I know how to run em & store em... I thought!!
D) The ONLY change in all those years was..... FUEL supply.
With well over 10,000 miles under our belt in all of these sleds & only ONE failure, I am guessing my diagnostic's of where the failure was are pretty good. The pistons looked good etc. etc. It was a rod bearing failure due to rust. Hmmm...could it be that the "moisture characteristics" of the ethanol had something to do with this and the fact that the ethanol also has "solvent characteristics" known to "clean things". Pretty sure thats where it was. Again, from my standpoint of being in snowmobiles since 68, not tweaking this motor, etc.etc. the only thing left in my mind was the fantastic fuel supply.
So with this knowledge of the quality of the fuel we have, at least here in OR, one must adjust accordingly.
And hey Zach, reading your post on your "meltdown", I am in agreement with Yammiegod, I bet it was some high quality fuel ya got there. Maybe your fuel supply is coming from OR...LOL
It just sucks when ya have to be sooo careful what you do when buying fuel. Give me the good old straight non oxygenated stuff. If it aint broke, why in the hell do they have to F*** with it...oh yeah...its the global warming BS.
Guys, when ya lose a motor the next time & its fuel related..call Al Gore & send him the bill!!
Enough ranting, I feel better.
Rob
horkn said:
Narcisisstic? Ya, that's it. After all, I am the greatest.
No need to be calling names horkn. Ya big bully. 
horkn
New member
Rob, I see your points, but we here in Wi went through all the TV glorification of repair shops having horror stories with autos and small engines, but these stories went away as soon as they appeared.
Here's hoping the teething issues you are having go away as quickly as it did here.
Al Gore will be over tomorrow to fix your sled
Here's hoping the teething issues you are having go away as quickly as it did here.
Al Gore will be over tomorrow to fix your sled
horkn
New member
Zachalyse said:Narcisisstic? Ya, that's it. After all, I am the greatest.
Please don't take it personally. It was not meant that way
right back at ya
horkn said:Please don't take it personally. It was not meant that way
right back at ya
It's all good. Lets get out and ride and Be safe.
well if its not the fuel wat is it?
racerrob6m
New member
Good one Zach !!
ROFLMAO....
Boy if I can catch those little bastards... they are toast!!!
They are probably easier to catch than the fix for the SH@@@Y Fuel.
ROFLMAO....
Boy if I can catch those little bastards... they are toast!!!
They are probably easier to catch than the fix for the SH@@@Y Fuel.