I find it hard to feel sorry for the plight of the auto makers when they have turned out sub par products for so many years and now they are looking to the north american govt's to bail them out.Case in point,I work for the local municipality here in the works dept and we 2 newer vehicles in our yard,a GMC 2 ton w/dump body and 10ft fisher plow new in December 08 and our plow truck an International work star 3 ton w/int engine.
First the GMC,it has the duramax with the allison tranny in it and it does work good I'll say that but the fit and finish of the interior is really sub par even for what would be classed as a med duty work truck.And being a med duty truck there is only a couple of dealers in the southern part of NB that work on them and both are about 100 miles away,real convenient.We had to send the truck to a dealer after only a couple of weeks for an engine light on the dash and most recently 2 more times for a leaky fuel line and slow shifting transmission.There's quality control for ya.
Now I'll start on our plow truck and I'll tell ya this list is going to be long.We've had electrical problems since we got it last April that is still plaguing it and here just before Christmas it took to using antifreeze to the tune of 7 gal in one day!!!That turned out to be faulty egr coolers and since the repair it hasn't worked right at all.Every once in a while there seems to be signs of antifreeze in the oil,on the dip stick anyway and now we have new electrical problems showing up,fault lights in the gauge pod,loss of all lights for a couple of seconds,loss of throttle function( it will idle but the foot feed has no affect on rpm-weird!!!) and I could go on.
Unfortunately this is our only means of spreading sand/salt on the streets in our town and with all the storms we've had we don't have the luxury of sending the truck back to the dealer for any length of time to let them try to sort out this lemon.The local Dept of Transportation has older Int trucks in their fleet and have had decent luck with them but they've also got Cummins engines too.Lately it's just been a running joke as to what will crop up next with this truck.
What really gets me is that the auto makers almost seem to be saying "well what did you expect?Now give us the money".
OK I'm done now.
First the GMC,it has the duramax with the allison tranny in it and it does work good I'll say that but the fit and finish of the interior is really sub par even for what would be classed as a med duty work truck.And being a med duty truck there is only a couple of dealers in the southern part of NB that work on them and both are about 100 miles away,real convenient.We had to send the truck to a dealer after only a couple of weeks for an engine light on the dash and most recently 2 more times for a leaky fuel line and slow shifting transmission.There's quality control for ya.
Now I'll start on our plow truck and I'll tell ya this list is going to be long.We've had electrical problems since we got it last April that is still plaguing it and here just before Christmas it took to using antifreeze to the tune of 7 gal in one day!!!That turned out to be faulty egr coolers and since the repair it hasn't worked right at all.Every once in a while there seems to be signs of antifreeze in the oil,on the dip stick anyway and now we have new electrical problems showing up,fault lights in the gauge pod,loss of all lights for a couple of seconds,loss of throttle function( it will idle but the foot feed has no affect on rpm-weird!!!) and I could go on.
Unfortunately this is our only means of spreading sand/salt on the streets in our town and with all the storms we've had we don't have the luxury of sending the truck back to the dealer for any length of time to let them try to sort out this lemon.The local Dept of Transportation has older Int trucks in their fleet and have had decent luck with them but they've also got Cummins engines too.Lately it's just been a running joke as to what will crop up next with this truck.
What really gets me is that the auto makers almost seem to be saying "well what did you expect?Now give us the money".
OK I'm done now.
bluemonster1
LIFE MEMBER ONLY ONCE!!!
I hear ya..I don't feel sorry for them either.Nice wages they make also.If they need to go under..so be it.Others will replace them with a better product.They fell behind the times..what a bunch of greedy money hungry losers. I would not bail them out,our goverments just have to stick their nose in someone else's business.If I ran a big company,and was putting out a bad product and sales dropped,would government help me? Where would it all end...the taxpayers would be stuck for the bill.
tedgoesfast
New member
i agree ive worked at dealors for years Gm. The quility is way low also why are they making suv with the econamy they way it is.The trail blazers are great for my shop .they are having alot of trouble with 4wd forks snaping of and yes alot of evap codes.It is great as a indepentant shop but not for the customer.Also the big three have lost our respect when they are paying a ninrod to run a corporation who couldent even run a whellbarrel
bluemonster1
LIFE MEMBER ONLY ONCE!!!
Now that is funny.a ninrod who can't even run a wheelbarreltedgoesfast said:
Huh.
Well, I know my truck is not really in the same league but I have a 2007 Chevy 1500 Silverado.....yes, just a little 1/2 ton with a 5.3. I've got to say that this is the best truck I've ever owned. I do a lot of trailering in the motocross season with my son. We tow a 5,500 lb toy hauler every weekend from April thru November. Have not had a problem yet (knock on wood). I've got 50,000 miles on the truck in less than two years. I also get much better gas mileage than all my buddies who own Ford, Dodge, Nissan and Toyota. No problem keeping up with them on the way to the races either. I think that the auto makers deserve the bail out a lot more than the AIG's of the world.
Madmatt
Well, I know my truck is not really in the same league but I have a 2007 Chevy 1500 Silverado.....yes, just a little 1/2 ton with a 5.3. I've got to say that this is the best truck I've ever owned. I do a lot of trailering in the motocross season with my son. We tow a 5,500 lb toy hauler every weekend from April thru November. Have not had a problem yet (knock on wood). I've got 50,000 miles on the truck in less than two years. I also get much better gas mileage than all my buddies who own Ford, Dodge, Nissan and Toyota. No problem keeping up with them on the way to the races either. I think that the auto makers deserve the bail out a lot more than the AIG's of the world.
Madmatt
ExpertXViper
New member
tedgoesfast said:
Those are some pretty strong words for someone who has some of the worse spelling Ive seen. The reason your customers are blowing out there 4wd forks is because there using the 4wd when they really shouldnt be. Im a Parts Manager at a GM dealer and that is the common cause of it all, using 4wd when you shouldnt be. Which is the common cause of MOST 4wd failures, people using 4wd on pavement or on terrain where its not needed. We dont put out a huge volume of work like the bigger dealers around us, but that problem you speak of isnt even a problem thats seen even on a monthly basis here. So your customers are to blame for the failures, not GM.
Im not going to argue that the Line Workers get payed to much cause I know they do, Ive been saying that ever since Ive seen these threads come up. They need to drop the union and hire in all the other people out there that are already unemployed and hoping not to get thrown out on the street.
But to say you hope/careless/wish they go under is just cold hearted and IMO your an a$$hole because if it effected your life/family youd be singing a whole diff. tune and you can bet on that. SOME of you people north of the border dont see the big picture that we do here in the Motor City where it all started and MAY possibly end. I hope for the best everyday I go to work, even though I see business slow down everyday.
If any of the Big3 go under is not gunna be good for this country and the middle class that live in it.
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FYI - The two best selling vehicles in North America for 2008 weren't cars and are not made by the transplants. F-150 and the Silverado.
Yeah, it's silly for them to produce vehicles thier customers actually want.
And as Expert alluded to, modern day emission controls were invented by the domestics 30 years ago. Honda, Toyota and Nissan didn't incur the developement costs associated with the mandates but enjoy the technology today.
And to think this thread was started by a government employee.
Yeah, it's silly for them to produce vehicles thier customers actually want.
And as Expert alluded to, modern day emission controls were invented by the domestics 30 years ago. Honda, Toyota and Nissan didn't incur the developement costs associated with the mandates but enjoy the technology today.
And to think this thread was started by a government employee.
LMAO fourbarrel works for the government?
I sure hope all those Canadian tax dollars aren't being wasted so some employee can post rants on the USA's bailout of the auto manufacturers when he should be working.
As for US auto makers quality. The last three autos I've owned were a 94' SHO 213,000 miles, a 98' F-150 with 140,000 miles and my current 2004 F-150 with 142,000 miles. The total to date of service costs aside from maintainance on my current truck are about $500. I have no complaints.
I sure hope all those Canadian tax dollars aren't being wasted so some employee can post rants on the USA's bailout of the auto manufacturers when he should be working.
As for US auto makers quality. The last three autos I've owned were a 94' SHO 213,000 miles, a 98' F-150 with 140,000 miles and my current 2004 F-150 with 142,000 miles. The total to date of service costs aside from maintainance on my current truck are about $500. I have no complaints.
There is good and bad product from every company out there. At the production level of GM and Ford not every vehicle is going to work out without snags. However, I have 2 view points, Why should tax payers have to front the money for someone who cant run their business, Or drives it under...How many other American companys went under recently and I dont see them getting a bailout, They are not living in million $$ mansions, or still getting millions in bonus's....IF its going to go under let it go....... Then my other view is its not just GM There is many little mom and pop tool and die shops, machine shops, ect. that all supply GM, They are the ones I feel sorry for... Those are the ones I would like to see get a bailout... The after effect of GM would be far greater then what most realize... Who knows what will happen, wait and see...
troutman
New member
Not all heartless north of border
Some of us north of the border do understand the current situation in the USA and how that impacts the daily lives of people from both sides of the border. The crisis sweeping the states has and will continue to have deep fallouts for Canada and people north of the border. I hope I speak for the majority of canadians in that we live in different countries, but at times like this there is no boundry for economic crisis. We are in this together no matter which side of the border we reside. IMO.
Some of us north of the border do understand the current situation in the USA and how that impacts the daily lives of people from both sides of the border. The crisis sweeping the states has and will continue to have deep fallouts for Canada and people north of the border. I hope I speak for the majority of canadians in that we live in different countries, but at times like this there is no boundry for economic crisis. We are in this together no matter which side of the border we reside. IMO.
troutman said:
Well said
ExpertXViper
New member
Bischof said:
X2!!!!!! I revised my wording to SOME, and not "You people"
I guess I have to add a couple of things here:
A: I don't work for the Canadian govt,I work for the local municipality (town) and tax dollars don't pay for me to rant,if the tax dollars were paying my salary I'd be making alot more $
B: I never said I wanted to see anyone go under just that I don't feel sorry for them and the tools who have run their respective co's into the ground.I agree whole heartedly that over inflated salaries and huge bonuses paid to the wrong people are not helping.
C: It's not just the US that are being asked to bail out the big 3 but they will be coughing up the majority of the $.
D: As for a vehicle I personally own a 99 Silverado and if I could afford it right now would most likely replace it with an 07 or 08 Silverado.Not that my 99 has been trouble free just the opposite it's just that the new models have had great reviews and would seem to be a solid investment.
A: I don't work for the Canadian govt,I work for the local municipality (town) and tax dollars don't pay for me to rant,if the tax dollars were paying my salary I'd be making alot more $
B: I never said I wanted to see anyone go under just that I don't feel sorry for them and the tools who have run their respective co's into the ground.I agree whole heartedly that over inflated salaries and huge bonuses paid to the wrong people are not helping.
C: It's not just the US that are being asked to bail out the big 3 but they will be coughing up the majority of the $.
D: As for a vehicle I personally own a 99 Silverado and if I could afford it right now would most likely replace it with an 07 or 08 Silverado.Not that my 99 has been trouble free just the opposite it's just that the new models have had great reviews and would seem to be a solid investment.
One more thought
I have read the replies a couple of times here and all have some good points to them but some are getting off into an area I was hoping this thread wouldn't go.I don't think,or at least I hope,nobody here wishes for anyone to lose their job and if someone has those kind of thoughts keep them to yourself as that's not cool.
I fully realize that the economic impact of the hard times in the states will hit here too and I hope that our respective governments can sort this mess out with a collaborative effort.Unfortunately I think this is one thing that is just going to have to run it's course but I'm no economist either.
One very good point brought up is that the majority of our lives are not directly impacted by the auto industry and if it were there would certainly be very different view points expressed on here.This was short sighted of me to think that this would not be brought up by someone in this thread and I hope no hard feelings are felt towards anybody.The guys at the dealer levels like the parts guys,mechanics etc,are unfortunately in the crosshairs as well when people spout off about the auto industry and as we all know it's the people in the boardrooms that should be held to more accountability.This is true in all of the big business that are crying hard times now.How many investment firms or the like have paid millions to their ceo's and such in bonuses only to have their respective companies go belly up.
I have read the replies a couple of times here and all have some good points to them but some are getting off into an area I was hoping this thread wouldn't go.I don't think,or at least I hope,nobody here wishes for anyone to lose their job and if someone has those kind of thoughts keep them to yourself as that's not cool.
I fully realize that the economic impact of the hard times in the states will hit here too and I hope that our respective governments can sort this mess out with a collaborative effort.Unfortunately I think this is one thing that is just going to have to run it's course but I'm no economist either.
One very good point brought up is that the majority of our lives are not directly impacted by the auto industry and if it were there would certainly be very different view points expressed on here.This was short sighted of me to think that this would not be brought up by someone in this thread and I hope no hard feelings are felt towards anybody.The guys at the dealer levels like the parts guys,mechanics etc,are unfortunately in the crosshairs as well when people spout off about the auto industry and as we all know it's the people in the boardrooms that should be held to more accountability.This is true in all of the big business that are crying hard times now.How many investment firms or the like have paid millions to their ceo's and such in bonuses only to have their respective companies go belly up.
dmsrx700
New member
For all those that think any auto manufacturer going down would be a good thing, you need to think about it a bit. They are far too big and reach way too far into the economy to let fail. Stop and really think about how many different industries are involved. Besides the people actually employed by the Detroit three, you have all the support companies, paint companies, glass companies, plastics industries, leather industries, wire companies, marketing, banking, Ad companies, etc. You get the idea. The states get revenue from the taxes on the sales.
For all of you who say these companies were so poorly managed , what do you say about Toyota and Honda? They are both asking for bailouts. They are subsidised by their governments as a normal course of doing business in Japan. They built the same types of vehicles ( SUV, and Pickups), and Toyota has already closed a plant it just opened because they thought the trucks would sell.
The Detroit three hold 47% of the auto market (last figures i saw) and the other 17 or so manufacturers hold the other 53%. I think that answers the question of them building what people want.
Sure they need to change the way the workers are paid, but to go back on the people who worked within the system in place (retirees) now would be devestating. What would you expect a 70 year old retiree to do so he could support himself when all he did is what was normal in his time? They would have to be supported by the government wouldn't they. We would pay anyways.
For all of you who say these companies were so poorly managed , what do you say about Toyota and Honda? They are both asking for bailouts. They are subsidised by their governments as a normal course of doing business in Japan. They built the same types of vehicles ( SUV, and Pickups), and Toyota has already closed a plant it just opened because they thought the trucks would sell.
The Detroit three hold 47% of the auto market (last figures i saw) and the other 17 or so manufacturers hold the other 53%. I think that answers the question of them building what people want.
Sure they need to change the way the workers are paid, but to go back on the people who worked within the system in place (retirees) now would be devestating. What would you expect a 70 year old retiree to do so he could support himself when all he did is what was normal in his time? They would have to be supported by the government wouldn't they. We would pay anyways.
ExpertXViper
New member
fourbarrel said:
Just for the record you werent the cause of my blow up, its was the other 2 tools that were making the comments that touched a nerve. This is a very touching topic with me and many others because its effects so many peoples lives and the people it doesnt effect make comments that are cold hearted to the ones it does effect.
fourbarrel said:
I'm guessing there is a typo in the first sentence or else I don't understand. My guess would be that the majority here ARE directly impacted by the auto industry (you know, gearhead types) or at the very least a large minority.
And we haven't even touched on the local businesses that are no longer supported by 70 or so employees of the dealer that closes, or the thousand or so folks who's plant just closed, or the tooling guy that get's layed off from the small proto-type shop. They're eating lunch at home.
So now the plant, dealership, restaurant and property owner turned renter aren't paying withholding, SS, property or sales tax. How long does a municipality keep it's work force when the revenue stream is cut in half?
I don't buy into the class warfare arguement regarding CEO's either. Is the disparity in salaries much larger than it was thirty years ago, you bet. But middle class income has gone from 20K to 70K in today's dollars over that same period. And as much as I hate to admit it, the union played a big role seeing that happen. And some CEO's really are worth what they're payed and I don't begrudge them negotiating for the best interests of thier family. That's what I did on my last job interview.
Finally - Bluemonster, my highschool English teacher would have two words for you and your sig line... You're and too ;>) Peace!