BlueIronRanger
New member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 315
on a few of the ATV forums I visit I've come across a few different people that are claiming of new 800cc inline twin cylinder Grizzly that is "suppose" to be sharing the engine with a new 06' snowmobile. I'm not holding my breath on this but maybe , just maybe yamaha is coming out with a lightwieght ditch banger or entery level 4 stroke sled this year?
I would love to have a 800 grizzly....and a new Yamaha Sweet...lets keep our fingers crossed 
Hebi
New member
I think you will probably see both in the near future.
Yamaha needs to do something with the Grizzly. Its a great machine, no doubt. However, with the Kawi/Suzuki/Cat 750 twin and with Polaris coming out with their 750 twin Yamaha will be forced to do something with the Grizz.
I also believe that Yamaha will come out with a smaller 4-stroke sled for '06. We've known for a while now that the SX Venom is going to be dropped after this year.
However, I dont think both these machines will share the same engine. The needs of a snowmobile engine and an ATV engine are very different. For an ATV you want something that has a lot of low-end torque. Especially in a utility ATV, you want something that makes the majority of its torque below 4,000 rpm. For a snowmobile you want something that makes its power moreso in the midrange to the top end, this is at around 5,000-9,000 rpm. As you see, you wouldnt want the same engine for both machines.
I think you will see Yamaha come out with an 800cc twin in the Grizz. I think it will be a long stroke engine, perfect for making lots of low-end torque.
I think you will see Yamaha come out with a 950cc triple for the snowmobile for '06. Ive heard rumors of a twin but I have my doubts. If you went with a twin, it would have to be at least 900cc to make respectable amounts of power (I think you will be looking at a 100 hp engine). If you make even something smaller like a 900cc twin it would pose some major problems. First of all, with pistons that big the engine would have some serious vibration issues. Ask anyone who rides a ZR 900 how their hands feel at the end of the day and you will see what I mean. Even my '99 Polaris Indy 700 XC SP (700cc 2-stroke twin) had some vibration to it. When it was sitting there idling you could watch the handlebars shake.
Also for a snowmobile I dont think that a big twin will hold together long enough. Yamaha has a reputation for building sleds that last a very long time. It has been said that the RX-1's engine will easily run 50,000 miles. I dont see even a big twin 4-stroke running that long. A lot of people who run Harley Sportsters which have 883cc v-twins only run about 25,000 miles between rebuilds. You also have to consider that a snowmobile engine runs at a fairly high rpm. Most sleds go down the trail turning 5,000-6,000 rpm at 30 mph. When you do 50 mph the rpms rise to around 7,000 rpm. I dont see a big twin lasting with high rpms like that.
Also, Yamaha has made their name on the reputation of build smooth-running, fuel efficent, dependable engines. If they made a big twin 4-stroke it would go aganst everything they have been preaching about for the past 3 years.
Also, I dont see the ditchbanger market being as big as it was a few years ago. You really dont see as many of the REVs, Firecats and Pro-Xs as you used to. Where I ride, in Minocqua, WI you see a lot more of what I would call "trail" sleds. Sleds that are more about a comfy ride than about racing from bar to bar. You see a lot of Ski-Doo Legends and Polaris Classics. You still see Arctic Cat people mostly on ZRs and Firecats, but thats what Cat folks are all about: racing. As for Yamahas, you see a lot of older sleds in the Minocqua area. Lots of Phazers, Exciters and SRVs. I havent really seen a whole lot of SXs, SRXs or RX-1s. In the past 2 years Ive only seen 1 RX-1 on the trail. It was a black one and let me tell you, it was turning heads.
I personally believe that people are chosing to have older snowmobiles and are spending more of their money on ATVs. It makes sense really, the snowmobile riding season here in Wisconsin is no longer than 3 months. Some years its much shorter than that. Why not buy an ATV, something that you can ride 365 days a year and keep around an older sled so that if you do get snow you can still ride. With an older sled, if you dont get to ride that winter its not really a big deal, you can still ride your quad.
Ive had many winters where I had a shiny new sled sitting in the garage and no snow to ride it on. If I had an ATV as well I wouldnt care if we got snow or not. Granted, snow is more fun but the ATV could care less it its got snow or dirt underneath it.
Hebi
Yamaha needs to do something with the Grizzly. Its a great machine, no doubt. However, with the Kawi/Suzuki/Cat 750 twin and with Polaris coming out with their 750 twin Yamaha will be forced to do something with the Grizz.
I also believe that Yamaha will come out with a smaller 4-stroke sled for '06. We've known for a while now that the SX Venom is going to be dropped after this year.
However, I dont think both these machines will share the same engine. The needs of a snowmobile engine and an ATV engine are very different. For an ATV you want something that has a lot of low-end torque. Especially in a utility ATV, you want something that makes the majority of its torque below 4,000 rpm. For a snowmobile you want something that makes its power moreso in the midrange to the top end, this is at around 5,000-9,000 rpm. As you see, you wouldnt want the same engine for both machines.
I think you will see Yamaha come out with an 800cc twin in the Grizz. I think it will be a long stroke engine, perfect for making lots of low-end torque.
I think you will see Yamaha come out with a 950cc triple for the snowmobile for '06. Ive heard rumors of a twin but I have my doubts. If you went with a twin, it would have to be at least 900cc to make respectable amounts of power (I think you will be looking at a 100 hp engine). If you make even something smaller like a 900cc twin it would pose some major problems. First of all, with pistons that big the engine would have some serious vibration issues. Ask anyone who rides a ZR 900 how their hands feel at the end of the day and you will see what I mean. Even my '99 Polaris Indy 700 XC SP (700cc 2-stroke twin) had some vibration to it. When it was sitting there idling you could watch the handlebars shake.
Also for a snowmobile I dont think that a big twin will hold together long enough. Yamaha has a reputation for building sleds that last a very long time. It has been said that the RX-1's engine will easily run 50,000 miles. I dont see even a big twin 4-stroke running that long. A lot of people who run Harley Sportsters which have 883cc v-twins only run about 25,000 miles between rebuilds. You also have to consider that a snowmobile engine runs at a fairly high rpm. Most sleds go down the trail turning 5,000-6,000 rpm at 30 mph. When you do 50 mph the rpms rise to around 7,000 rpm. I dont see a big twin lasting with high rpms like that.
Also, Yamaha has made their name on the reputation of build smooth-running, fuel efficent, dependable engines. If they made a big twin 4-stroke it would go aganst everything they have been preaching about for the past 3 years.
Also, I dont see the ditchbanger market being as big as it was a few years ago. You really dont see as many of the REVs, Firecats and Pro-Xs as you used to. Where I ride, in Minocqua, WI you see a lot more of what I would call "trail" sleds. Sleds that are more about a comfy ride than about racing from bar to bar. You see a lot of Ski-Doo Legends and Polaris Classics. You still see Arctic Cat people mostly on ZRs and Firecats, but thats what Cat folks are all about: racing. As for Yamahas, you see a lot of older sleds in the Minocqua area. Lots of Phazers, Exciters and SRVs. I havent really seen a whole lot of SXs, SRXs or RX-1s. In the past 2 years Ive only seen 1 RX-1 on the trail. It was a black one and let me tell you, it was turning heads.
I personally believe that people are chosing to have older snowmobiles and are spending more of their money on ATVs. It makes sense really, the snowmobile riding season here in Wisconsin is no longer than 3 months. Some years its much shorter than that. Why not buy an ATV, something that you can ride 365 days a year and keep around an older sled so that if you do get snow you can still ride. With an older sled, if you dont get to ride that winter its not really a big deal, you can still ride your quad.
Ive had many winters where I had a shiny new sled sitting in the garage and no snow to ride it on. If I had an ATV as well I wouldnt care if we got snow or not. Granted, snow is more fun but the ATV could care less it its got snow or dirt underneath it.
Hebi
BlueIronRanger
New member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 315
I could see the same base engine used in both machines, a simple camshaft swap could crank out the hp. I would think they would be shooting for around 55-60hp with the new grizzly to take care of the competition and both machines use a CVT type transmission. I think a simple 800cc twin @ 7500rpm could put out a healthy 80hp, plenty for a entry level sled (look at how well the Phazer's did for MANY years with only 55hp) If yamaha builds a 80hp, lighter wieght, fuel effecent trail sled they would sell ALOT of them. The BIG problem is everyone seems to consider a 110hp sled as a "beginner" sled, when only 10 years ago 50-60hp was a "beginner" sled.
Vmax540
VIP Member
Hebi "I think you will see Yamaha come out with a 950cc triple for the snowmobile for '06." Wouldn't this compete in the same market segment as the Vector ? I'm guessing more in the 750-800cc, 4 stroke, 90-100Hp. and hopefully a tripple ? ! ?
Hebi
New member
Not really. Look at the other brands with their sleds they make. 500s are 100 hp, 600s are 115 hp, 700s are 125 hp and 800s are 135 hp.Vmax540 said:
So, if Yamaha comes out with something that is around 100 hp it will compete nicely with the 500s. They already have the Vector which is comparable to a 600 and the RX-1 competes with everything else.
I dont think you will see anything smaller than a 900 in a 4-stroke. It just wont be able to make the power at lower rpms. A snowmobile engine needs a lot of torque just to overcome the rolling resistence of the skis and track so I dont see anything smaller the 900cc getting job done.
I could see Yamaha coming out with something around 900cc, a triple with 2 valves per cylinder and SOHC. 2 valves per cylinder and SOHC would save as much weight as possible and for an entry-level sled it would do anything you would need.
I dont think you will see something that is 750-800cc because of other 4-stroke examples. Look at the Polaris Frontier. Its a 780cc twin with fuel injection and it only puts out around 80 hp. It kinda makes you wonder what a 700 Sportsman could do if you gave it the same software that the sled's computer has, eh? Now granted, thats not bad for what that sled is designed for but I dont think you will see something like that from Yamaha. The reason why Yamaha discontinued the 500 Vmax/SX and the Phazer 500 were because sales werent high enough to warrant continuing to produce them. Why would Yamaha return to a market segment that was unprofitable? Dont get me wrong, I loved my Phazer and I wish Yamaha still made something similar to that but the market is going more towards sleds that are 100 hp and up.
No, Yamaha's next one will be a 100 hp 950cc 3-cylinder. It might even be a 2-valve that is SOHC. If the sled is designed to be entry-level that would help them keep the cost down.
Hebi