Gearing for my Viper with a 153" track

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Figgy

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I picked this sled up for riding out West but also to ride in the UP as well off-trail and on trail as much as I can. I know the 153" is not going to be a great corner-to-corner trail sled, so I want to focus more on the off-trail aspect. With the sled I also have an extra track, cut-down to around 1" high and also a 153" of course.

I'm going to pick up a new driveshaft that I think will have probably 8 tooth drivers on it, as it's off of a 121" machine. Also, sorry boys I don't know off the top of my head what drivers are on the sled now (it has a Maverick track with 2" paddles).

What am I asking? School me in gearing please...do I want to regear on the driveshaft, in the chain case, one, both or what?

I will also have to do some clutch tuning and will probably post about that too!

What I'm trying to avoid of course is making an error...especially when it will involve pulling the driveshaft back out! My goal is to be as close to "getting it right" as possible on the first try. That is gearing it as close as possible to right on. And if it matters, there will be no high elevation riding with this set-up or huge mountain climbs either (duh! It'll be ridden in the Midwest with this set-up!).

This is the sled if it matters:

http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62488&highlight=viper
 
first off, if that sled has a drop and roll with a 153, its going to be a 3" pitch track. at most, with the 2" lugs, drivers are probably 8 tooth, . perhaps they are 7t drivers. not sure i am answering your question, but if it works as good as the seller described it, and all you are doing is dropping the lug height, you just need to verify the driver and track pitch and go from there. how much altitude are you giving up fron minnesota to illinois? if your getting a driveshaft from a 121, the drivers will be the wrong pitch.
 
I believe it has the Maverick 153 with 3" pitch, I dont think they make a Maverick 153 with 2.52 pitch???? so I take the cut down track is also a 153 3" pitch so Snowdad is right the drivers will be wrong. So I would run the same shaft. So gearing will have to be done in the chain case. What gears are in it now? if it has th 8 tooth 3" drivers 19/41 gears??? I think I would not go anymore than 20/40 2.00 gear ratio stk Mtn Viper was 2.25 ratio 20/40 w/8tooth 2.52 drivers. let us know what you have and I can help.
 
Thanks Marty...I believe you two are right, that no matter what the drivers will need to be changed as the pitch is different. I have some drivers, and will pick up that driveshaft hopefully this week. Once I get all the stuff together I'll re-post with what I find. Thanks for the help so far...I'm very green with this gearing stuff.

Last thought, if we look at this track similar to how we'd look at say a car or truck that we put bigger or smaller tires on, are we not in effect reducing the final drive ratio by installing a cut-down track? I mean it would seem that if I have a 2" lug, for every revolution of the track, the 2" lug would travel a greater distance that the 1" lug track.

Right? Am I thinking this out correctly? If so, then if I put the 1" on with the same tooth count drivers as with the Maverick 2", I'd in effect be putting smaller diameter tires on the truck/car metaphor right? So lower top speed, harder pull from a stop, etc.
 
The lug depth doesn't matter. It's the length that is similar to a tire. The depth would be like the tread depth on the tire. I suppose that as the tire wears to the point of being bald that there is some change but not enough that you bother with a speedo correction half way through the life of the tires. Same thing with the track lug height.

Personally if you are running the 153x2 right now, why change since you state that you are planning more off trail than on. I've been trail riding a 144x2 for years now without any issues. Just have to pay attention is all.
 
The track depth or length will not play into the gear ratio figure, except that it will take more HP to turn the bigger track. If I understand what you are looking to do is replace the 153 x 2 (outwest track) with a 153 x1 for Minnesota riding?
am I right? or what track are you looking to install that is cut down? if its a 153 Maverick cut down to 1" than why not just run the same drive shaft?
and gear accordingly. let us know when you know what pitch tracks you have and what gears are in the sled now
 
Ryan B said:
The lug depth doesn't matter. It's the length that is similar to a tire. The depth would be like the tread depth on the tire. I suppose that as the tire wears to the point of being bald that there is some change but not enough that you bother with a speedo correction half way through the life of the tires. Same thing with the track lug height.

Personally if you are running the 153x2 right now, why change since you state that you are planning more off trail than on. I've been trail riding a 144x2 for years now without any issues. Just have to pay attention is all.
Click to expand...
Good point...that was kinda lost on me...duh! But I would still argue that the 2" lugged track (being taller) would travel just a little bit farther with each revolution than that of the 1" track. And of course a hell of a lot farther that a 121! So indeed, going from a 121 or a 144 would require major gearing changes.

I just don't know how much off-trail I'd be running into, and it just seems like a waste of a nearly new track. Plus, no studs either. The approximately 1" track has studs...and we all know how much it would suck to be on ice with no studs whether on the gas, or on the brakes! Yikes!
 
..SNAKEBIT.. said:
The track depth or length will not play into the gear ratio figure, except that it will take more HP to turn the bigger track. If I understand what you are looking to do is replace the 153 x 2 (outwest track) with a 153 x1 for Minnesota riding?
am I right? or what track are you looking to install that is cut down? if its a 153 Maverick cut down to 1" than why not just run the same drive shaft?
and gear accordingly. let us know when you know what pitch tracks you have and what gears are in the sled now
Click to expand...

You are correct...the cut-down track is NOT a Maverick track. And it does have a different pitch so new drivers will be needed to be put on the replacement driveshaft. If I did not say the new D/S is from a 121" equipped Viper...I'll know more in the coming weeks but it's going to be a slow process for sure.

Thanks a bunch for all the input guys!

Marty you've gotta get a new avitar picture huh? Guess it'll have to wait for some cool jump shots on the new sled!! Did you post any pics of the new machine?
 
the 2" lug will NOT make a difference trust me
the tips of the lugs travel along a straight line in contact with the ground and
the inside of the track is going the same speed as the tips
on a tire its a radius and the tread is traveling faster than the bead area
dont know if this makes sense even to me BUT IT WONT CHANGE GEAR RATIO
just traction
 
As previous guys have also stated we somewhat trail ride our 144 x 2" tracks, usually dont do a whole lot of trail riding though. I think youd be find runnin a 153 x 2". My uncle rides an 05 Vector Moutain on the trails too. If you want a piece of mind for hyfax wear just go buy some ice scratchers and forget about your 153 x 1" track.
 
Figgy said:
Good point...that was kinda lost on me...duh! But I would still argue that the 2" lugged track (being taller) would travel just a little bit farther with each revolution than that of the 1" track. And of course a hell of a lot farther that a 121! So indeed, going from a 121 or a 144 would require major gearing changes.

I just don't know how much off-trail I'd be running into, and it just seems like a waste of a nearly new track. Plus, no studs either. The approximately 1" track has studs...and we all know how much it would suck to be on ice with no studs whether on the gas, or on the brakes! Yikes!
Click to expand...

Not to get into the whole stud no stud discussion (I don't run them), but I can honestly only think of twice in my life where I wished I had them. Both times was on a nasty, icy, rocky, hill climb. Otherwise I tend to ride on snow (especially with a 2" lug) Try it, you'll like it:)
 
Ryan B said:
Not to get into the whole stud no stud discussion (I don't run them), but I can honestly only think of twice in my life where I wished I had them. Both times was on a nasty, icy, rocky, hill climb. Otherwise I tend to ride on snow (especially with a 2" lug) Try it, you'll like it:)
Click to expand...

Well...you all may have convinced me to just "run what I brung". And the sled does already have scratchers on it so it looks like the hyfax will be very happy!

I guess I'm just concerned that I might have trouble finding loose, unpacked snow. But until spring, the melt during the day, freeze at night factor will be pretty low.

That said, if you could pick up a spare drive shaft for your viper sled for $40, it already has drivers on it...but I'm sure they are the wrong ones for my needs...would you buy it anyway?
 
little trick for the 2" and taller lug tracks, if your worried asbout icy conditions, get some hex head tapping screws, about 1/2" long, the ones that drive with a 1/4" driver and screw them into the tips of your lugs. these things will bite hard and amaze you. splurge for stainless if you have the dough. i prefer ones with the optional slotted drive. you can remove them easier when they wear.
 
So does anyone have an opinion on the $40 D/S question?

I don't want to fork out the dough and buy something that will just end up sitting around in my garage taking up space and never get used!
 
Figgy said:
So does anyone have an opinion on the $40 D/S question?

I don't want to fork out the dough and buy something that will just end up sitting around in my garage taking up space and never get used!
Click to expand...

I'm still trying to figure out why your thinking on doing all this work to a sled that seems to be already there.... :dunno:

To answer your question, why buy something you don't need (unless you just like looking at it)? Why not just sell the 1" track and make a few buck's instead?
 
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Nothing wrong with having spare parts but I'd have a hard time buying something that didn't fit the track I had unless you are going to pic up a track that matches the pitch of the new drivers.
 
Ok, looks like I'll put it on hold...see how this works out with the non-studded track and all. Save myself the work and see what happens.
 
If you were going to stud a track I would buy a 144 and stud it, it would hook like a bmf, But I can say I dont miss the studs in my Viper, so I would ride it like you bought it

FIGGY HOW ABOUT THIS PIC? No good snow shots of the Nytro yet
maybe a pic when I get the micron exhaust on
 
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..SNAKEBIT.. said:
If you were going to stud a track I would buy a 144 and stud it, it would hook like a bmf, But I can say I dont miss the studs in my Viper, so I would ride it like you bought it

FIGGY HOW ABOUT THIS PIC? No good snow shots of the Nytro yet
maybe a pic when I get the micron exhaust on
Click to expand...

Wow...that's a crazy water crossing shot Marty! I ended up talking with Shaun who I bought the sled from, and he told me the stock D/S with 9 tooth drivers would work perfectly and give me a higher top speed. I ended up buying the D/S, and will swap out the track, using the short lug track for local running and the Maverick for when I tag along with YOU for a trip out West!
 
snowdad4 said:
little trick for the 2" and taller lug tracks, if your worried asbout icy conditions, get some hex head tapping screws, about 1/2" long, the ones that drive with a 1/4" driver and screw them into the tips of your lugs. these things will bite hard and amaze you. splurge for stainless if you have the dough. i prefer ones with the optional slotted drive. you can remove them easier when they wear.
Click to expand...
just be carefull that your track doesnt hit your tunnel and shred it with the screws if you do this
 
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