S.S.Viper
New member
Hey guys...
I'm curious...Does a phazer run Rich without an airbox?...
Long story short...I'm trying to dial in my phazer cleaned
the carbs etc...had it out for a slight drive ride to get the burbles
out over the Holidays...the next day I had a gas leak...
Fixed the problem and decided to get it goin without the airbox...
It bogged and smoked like crazy...my dealer said it'll run rich without
the Airbox..is this true?..I thought it would run lean...
I'm curious...Does a phazer run Rich without an airbox?...
Long story short...I'm trying to dial in my phazer cleaned
the carbs etc...had it out for a slight drive ride to get the burbles
out over the Holidays...the next day I had a gas leak...
Fixed the problem and decided to get it goin without the airbox...
It bogged and smoked like crazy...my dealer said it'll run rich without
the Airbox..is this true?..I thought it would run lean...
PhazerII72909
New member
The dude at the dealer lies! You are correct, it does run leaner without the airbox on. I wouldn't run it without it on though. I mean yeah you are getting alot more air, but you'd have to change out your jettings and what not. If you're not careful you can seize your motor. Trust me, I've done it.
on1_wheel
New member
it will run lean, also, you are opening up your engine to all kinds of moisture without an airbox...don't run it without an airbox or filters, your looking for trouble $$$$$$$
S.S.Viper
New member
Hmm...I thought I was right..and yes..don't worry I won't be running this without an airbox during the season...if anyone knows the ole phazers..the airboxes are a bugger to get in...It just seemed like it was running rich before hand...and after a gas leak(around the pump) I had to take out the box...if figured before I put it back in..I'll start it up and see if she goes...idols fine...but holy crap its smoky...
The Dealershipe said it would run rich due to the none vacuum pump from the air box...he said once the box is in..it runs in unison with fuel pump and gives a proper mixture...it sounded good at the time...
I got a new pump coming in and will install that and the airbox just to be sure...if that doesn't work...I'll be asking why is it running rich..L8R
The Dealershipe said it would run rich due to the none vacuum pump from the air box...he said once the box is in..it runs in unison with fuel pump and gives a proper mixture...it sounded good at the time...
I got a new pump coming in and will install that and the airbox just to be sure...if that doesn't work...I'll be asking why is it running rich..L8R
PZ 1
Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2005
- Messages
- 987
There is a bracket on the carb assembly where the throttle and oil pump cables attach. When you removed the airbox, you may have pulled against the oil pump cable and pulled the cable out of the ferrule (the threaded part that the cable fits into) and it could now be resting on top of the ferrule which means it is pulling it tight and holding the oil pump open. Also check both enrichener cables at the carbs for the same thing.
Did you have the fuel pump apart? You may now have gas going into the crankcase through the pulse hose. It would be unlikely that the fuel pump itself would leak. More likely one of the hoses where they attach.
The best way to get the airbox out is to remove the driven pulley. The intake horn has to come off the airbox.
Did you have the fuel pump apart? You may now have gas going into the crankcase through the pulse hose. It would be unlikely that the fuel pump itself would leak. More likely one of the hoses where they attach.
The best way to get the airbox out is to remove the driven pulley. The intake horn has to come off the airbox.
Brit44Aldo
New member
The fuel must burn completly before the oil can burn. If you are running lean, the oil will not burn compleatly. Old gas will smoke because everything is not burning properly. Too many people burn down engines because they think smoke is caused by one thing and they adjust it. It's not that simple.
If you want to run without an airbox, make sure you put outerwares over your filters or use foam pods with filter oil. Injestion of snow and water will kill a 2 stroke. Also, it IS running lean without the airbox. Half throttle will be the worse. We used to remove the welsh plug and drill the metering holes, but that is not necessary these days.
Yamaha offers different nozzles (has since the mid 90s) to rejet the midrange of a Phazer. This information is contained in the mechanics update manuals and NOT in any parts department information.
If you want to run without an airbox, make sure you put outerwares over your filters or use foam pods with filter oil. Injestion of snow and water will kill a 2 stroke. Also, it IS running lean without the airbox. Half throttle will be the worse. We used to remove the welsh plug and drill the metering holes, but that is not necessary these days.
Yamaha offers different nozzles (has since the mid 90s) to rejet the midrange of a Phazer. This information is contained in the mechanics update manuals and NOT in any parts department information.
S.S.Viper
New member
Hmmm..interesting mr.Brit44....trust me..I have no intentions of running without an air filter...just thought 10 -20 minutes of dialing in was fine..just didn't expect it to be sooo smoky...I'm heading out right now to put humpty back together again...just hope the City of Toronto doesn't mind me running up and down the local Dog park to get her up to par..hehhehee..(kidding of course...but tempted as hell)
S.S.Viper
New member
Ha...go figure...I think I found the problem...just hoping more gremlins don't show up...1 Plug isn't firing...looks like my coil is shot...Unfortunetly since I'm new to this particular machine I couldn't tell what it should sound like...after trying
new plugs it intermittenly would scream like a brand new machine...DING!DING!DING...that gave me the heads up..and then it started to give the typical bog and smoke filled room effect...after pulling the cap...nothing changed...
Got a coil on order..hoping nothin else is acting up...I"m dying to get this thing in a field and into some drifts...
Why the 'ell didn't I look at this first...GOSH GOLLY!!!
new plugs it intermittenly would scream like a brand new machine...DING!DING!DING...that gave me the heads up..and then it started to give the typical bog and smoke filled room effect...after pulling the cap...nothing changed...
Got a coil on order..hoping nothin else is acting up...I"m dying to get this thing in a field and into some drifts...
Why the 'ell didn't I look at this first...GOSH GOLLY!!!
S.S.Viper
New member
Hey Guys.. Curious before I order a coil...anything else I should look into?...after reading some post some guys are saying look into the plug cap...or what about
the CDI..?..
Basically I noticed the clutch side cylinder isn't firing up...anything else?...I don't have
a timing light etc..so I might be limited...thought I'd ask..
the CDI..?..
Basically I noticed the clutch side cylinder isn't firing up...anything else?...I don't have
a timing light etc..so I might be limited...thought I'd ask..
Brit44Aldo
New member
The ignition coil is a "lost spark" coil, what this means is that the spark leaves one side of the coil and returns to ground on the other wire. Both plugs fire when one piston is at TDC. If one cylinder fires and not the other, the problem is almost never the coil.
If a Plug fouls, the spark can go to ground through the plug. I have seen a number of times when the customer says the loss of spark jumps from one cylinder to another. When it is ultimatly determined to be the coil, the spark was weak. It takes voltage to jump a plug gap and double to jump 2.
I think this advice is too late for you, but I'll repeat it for anyone else
If you suspect the coil, have it tested by a shop that has a load tester and charges for this test based on if it helps you or not. Or, try it on a known running unit.
If a Plug fouls, the spark can go to ground through the plug. I have seen a number of times when the customer says the loss of spark jumps from one cylinder to another. When it is ultimatly determined to be the coil, the spark was weak. It takes voltage to jump a plug gap and double to jump 2.
I think this advice is too late for you, but I'll repeat it for anyone else
If you suspect the coil, have it tested by a shop that has a load tester and charges for this test based on if it helps you or not. Or, try it on a known running unit.
S.S.Viper
New member
okay Hmmm...I'll double check in the morning...Last time I checked there was a spark
on that plug...I just figured it was weak..hence the coil assumption(older..weaker) I'm a novice at this sorta stuff(electrical)...And when I added a new plug, it did run excellent for 2 mins(you could hear and feel the difference...I actually had to dial back the idle to 1500rpm and no more bog...then back to the same condition)
If the coil isn't the problem...what else should I look into?
on that plug...I just figured it was weak..hence the coil assumption(older..weaker) I'm a novice at this sorta stuff(electrical)...And when I added a new plug, it did run excellent for 2 mins(you could hear and feel the difference...I actually had to dial back the idle to 1500rpm and no more bog...then back to the same condition)
If the coil isn't the problem...what else should I look into?
Brit44Aldo
New member
I'm not saying it can't be the coil, but I have seen other problems wet fouling a plug on the PZ
If you have a wet fould plug, you can place the sparkplug cap "just" off of the plug to force the spark to jump the gap.
Leaking float neadles
fuel block off rubber plugs installed improperly
shrunken fuel block off rubber plugs
plugged main air jet and/or main air jet passage.
impropper float height
choke plungers not seating
If you have a wet fould plug, you can place the sparkplug cap "just" off of the plug to force the spark to jump the gap.
Leaking float neadles
fuel block off rubber plugs installed improperly
shrunken fuel block off rubber plugs
plugged main air jet and/or main air jet passage.
impropper float height
choke plungers not seating
S.S.Viper
New member
No Probs...you have some very valid points...Sorry...but are you saying to remove the
cap...angle it slightly towards the tip of the plug to see if a spark will jump that far to the tip of the plug?...like 1/2 an inch?
Or are you saying remove the plug completely with the cap on and lay it on the head to see if there's a spark?...
I'll double check both tomorrow...I just came from the garage to get the viper ready from storage and its fine...looked over the phazer and tried to see if I could tighten the caps...dunno...we'll see in the morning..don't wanna wake the neighbours now...hehehe...
Your Carb points have me wondering...could one side be flooding itself out...
I just don't wanna give in passing it on to a dealer just yet...arghhh...
cheers and I'll post tomorrow..
cap...angle it slightly towards the tip of the plug to see if a spark will jump that far to the tip of the plug?...like 1/2 an inch?
Or are you saying remove the plug completely with the cap on and lay it on the head to see if there's a spark?...
I'll double check both tomorrow...I just came from the garage to get the viper ready from storage and its fine...looked over the phazer and tried to see if I could tighten the caps...dunno...we'll see in the morning..don't wanna wake the neighbours now...hehehe...
Your Carb points have me wondering...could one side be flooding itself out...
I just don't wanna give in passing it on to a dealer just yet...arghhh...
cheers and I'll post tomorrow..
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Brit44Aldo
New member
When you move the cap above the spark plug you force the coil to produce more electricty to jump the gap.
If you are stranded on the trail with one fouled plug, you can move the plug cap above to force the spark to jump.
This is a temp fix and a quick test only. This is how we delivered the unit to the customer when the porter left the choke on too long.
Brit44Aldo
New member
If your carbs are flooding at an idle, you can play with the idle mixture and the moving the cap off of the plug to make the engine idle at 1500
S.S.Viper
New member
Ok...I finally gave in Brit44...She's at the Dealership now...
Basically from not knowing this maching I hadn't realized that
it was intermittenly(?) running on 1 cylinder...Ordered a new coil
and caps...threw on new caps just to see and whammo...it ran like
a charm...untill I got it out on the ice...
Now it started fine...less smoke...move fine slow...bog in mid
and scream like a MOFO at wide open...My problem was we needed to
tow an icefishing Hut/Clam out to a good spot...this WOT just wouldn't cut it..
So instead of spending more time in the garage at night, I caved in and brought
it to the dealer...So far the dealer said $400...the Carbs were messy(go figure) and
the intake boot had a slight crack in it...I told them to keep the parts so I can inspect and have their mechanic handy so I can ask questions..I cleaned that Carb twice and it was mint after the first...however...the "slowjet" I couldn't get at...so I'm curious...
Back next Monday to see if it worked and hopefully end this thread.
Basically from not knowing this maching I hadn't realized that
it was intermittenly(?) running on 1 cylinder...Ordered a new coil
and caps...threw on new caps just to see and whammo...it ran like
a charm...untill I got it out on the ice...
Now it started fine...less smoke...move fine slow...bog in mid
and scream like a MOFO at wide open...My problem was we needed to
tow an icefishing Hut/Clam out to a good spot...this WOT just wouldn't cut it..
So instead of spending more time in the garage at night, I caved in and brought
it to the dealer...So far the dealer said $400...the Carbs were messy(go figure) and
the intake boot had a slight crack in it...I told them to keep the parts so I can inspect and have their mechanic handy so I can ask questions..I cleaned that Carb twice and it was mint after the first...however...the "slowjet" I couldn't get at...so I'm curious...
Back next Monday to see if it worked and hopefully end this thread.