88 phazer is a dog!!!

[djrascoe]

Im sure this has been posted before, but i cant find it on here. my phazer is a dog, out of the hole. I have to feather the throttle sometimes to get off the line, and pretty often, (not all the time though) it falls on its face in the early mid range area. after it gets past the midrange, it picks right up. The top end really isnt the best either. I have excellent compression, i just rebuilt the to end at the begining of the season also. I have cleaned my carbs twice now, i also replaced the reeds thinking that this was the problem. I replaced them with boyesen. I dont know if mabee my jetting is off, the sled came from mid wisconsin, im in northern Illinois, would that make a difference? Im lost here, I fought with it all winter long, and cant get much of a change out of it. Its all i could do to get it to hit 75mph on the speedo in a long flat field, and I also noticed that i cant get my rpm much over about 6200. What should I be looking at next? Im just starting to learn how to work on these things, and i lost on this one. Thank you

 

[racerrob6m]

Clutching-Gearing-Jetting

Sounds like clutching issue to me, especially if you have gone through the carbs & fuel issues, although jetting plays a big part too, but if she is "dogging" that bad, it almost sounds like low rpm engagment

A) What rpm does your clutch engage at?

B) What rpms are you turning at mid range?

C) What size are your main jets?

Another thing to look at is what gearing are you running?
If the gears-sprockets are "too tall" the motor is never going to get to its
peak rpm & will be a pig. This could cause the limit on speed.
All of my Phazer clutches do not engage until 2900-3200 rpm. My wifes peaks at 7600 -7700 & we have Boyssens in that one & it just runs sweet & consistent all day long, powder, trail, boondocking, whatever!!

Since I grew up in eastern Wi, I kinda know your elevations there & I highly doubt that is the issue from Wi to Il. Now if you were here were we ride above 4500-7000' feet, yep, serious changes both in jetting, clutching and gearing.

I would start with one item at a time & document where you are & post that here where the guys can help you.

Good luck, Rob

 

[djrascoe]

clutch engages at 3000, if i remember correctly the mid range rpm is about 4500, but im not 100% sure on that. I really dont look at my tach too often around midrange. my jets are stock, whatever that may be for size. The only thing on the sled that isn't stock, is the reeds. its an 88, and i just turned a little over 2100 origional miles on it this year. I dont know if something in the clutch may be bad, the sled sat for years before i bought it 2 years ago. what should this sled be running top end as far as speed? Im 6'2" and 175#, so i really dont think my weight should slow it down all that much

 

[phazerguy]

I would look into clutching. Pull both clutches apart, clean then well. Replace the springs, check the plastic secondary buttons that the helix rides on, check the rollers in the primary clutch and make sure they are tight. If the belt is old, replace it. That sled should have no problem going 80mph even stock, and it should get there fairly quick.

 

[SRX freek]

Here's a problem I ran into years ago on a phazer. Removed carbs to clean and theres two black round rubber plugs under the bowl. Theres three holes and two plugs , well the plugs weren't in the correct holes and we removed and cleaned the carbs many times and kept putting back in the same spot, (the wrong spot).Sled would run but no power. Put new pistons and rings in twice trying to solve it. Actually got a Yamaha rep on telli and got it figured out. What an expensive lesson. All that and I don't remeber which holes the plugs go in right now. Might be something to check. Hope this helps. Dennis

 

[racerrob6m]

Very Real Possibility!!

Damn, good idea there SRX, I did that 2 years ago & spaced what that did to my wifes sled. I followed the service manual & it shows the one rubber plug going in the wrong location. I recall I put it together "just like the book said" & it ran like sh**!! Could not get it to idle right, doggy etc & that was on the sled stand!! Pulled the carbs, dropped both bowls, put the "rubber plugs" back in the right hole & we were good to go.

With out the carbs in front of me, I cannot tell you where those plugs should go. I have a Phazer carb setup sitting on my work bench right now, I will check it out tomorrow & report back, and maybe take a pic or 2 of the carb as it sits in the correct setting!!

This can be one simple little fix. Boy SRX, you went thru hell to get it right huh!! Been there done that on a "some bad new plugs" fiasco once. Tore a motor down "because hey, ya sure could not have 2 sets of bad new plugs" right?? LOL

Rob

 

[BigToe]

to the top for clem...
Is this what your sled is doing?

 

[Brian543]

yeah big toe this is what it is doing. its in 86 phazer, i put a different primary clutch on and it didnt fix it. can i get pics of how the rubber plugs are supposed to be in carbs?

 

[racerrob6m]

Correct Plug Locations !!

Ok guys, here are pics showing the CORRECT location for those 2 rubber plugs that have been discussed here. The 1st picture shows the page in the fine Yamaha Big manual which is WRONG!!!

The other pictures show the carbs with the CORRECT plug locations, kind of a "minor difference"...LOL

Also, like the plugs in this 90 carb setup, they can get "rock hard & brittle" and when they are brittle, they can also crack & leave hairline gaps in the plugs as well as depositing really small "shrapnel" in the carbs. Most Yammie stores have these in stock & I think they are pretty reasonbly priced.
I know I will be getting 2 more sets for my shop stock as the ones in the pics are toast!!

Hope this helps you guys!!

Rob

 

[djrascoe]

Awesome, thanks for the pics, Ill get out and pull the carbs again in a few days or so, and I'll let you guys know what I find. thanks again

 

[racerrob6m]

Hope this is the issue!!

Kinda fun learning the "quick way" to get those carbs out huh?

I still fight with those damn boots to the air box. Good luck, hope this helps you & this is the "simple fix". I know that after I made the mistake once, I am darn careful now!! LOL

 

[djrascoe]

I can get the carbs fairly quickly, but whats the "quick way?" If theres a quicker, easier way, id love to know, lol

 

[racerrob6m]

Actually the carbs are the easy part, its fitting my fat fingers in between
the carbs & squeezing those boots to the air box that gets me!!

And no, I have not figured out a faster or easier way to get those boots on!!

 

[djrascoe]

yeah, i know what you mean here. thats what takes the longest is the air box boots. It sounds crazy, but the trick i learned is that i borrowed a small toy, plastic flat tip screwdriver from my 2 year old son. It came in a play tool set that my wife and I bought him. I put the tip of it inside the edge of the boot, and run it around the outside edge of the carb, and the boot slips right over the carb. i saw a buddy use a real screwdriver to do this and thought it would work well with a toy one so it wouldnt tear the boot, and it works well for me. The screwdriver has to be somewhat sturdy though so it doesnt just bend.

 

[Ding]

The rubber plugs belong in different locations depending on the year. The Parts Diagrams (available online) have the plug location shown on the carb page starting in 1993. The Tech Update manuals have a little more info on them.

Also, as mentioned check your clutch springs and bushings out. It may be shifting out way too fast.

 

[chonig]

I bet it is the rubber plugs in the carb too!!! I spent days on my Phazer till i got the rubber pulgs in the right spots. the phots of the carbs are the ticket(great photos), 2 of my buddys had the same problem. Good luck.

 

[racerrob6m]

Pre-89 ??

Hey Ding, what years are different??

I know that that the 89 to 96 carbs are all the same based on what I have worked on to date.

Rob

 

[rotax454]

Guys, I have a fair amount (years) of experience riding, tuning, modifying Phazers and Phazer II's. First, did you check your fuel pump? I replaced the fuel pump on my 94 last winter. Sounds like you may have a fuel delivery issue. On the carbs, do you have the Yamaha service bulletin on the carb update? Basically enriches the fuel/air ratio in the midrange. That is where many, OK Lot's of Phazer burndown's happen. I will dig out the service bulletin and get you the Yamaha part # for the kit. If you guys want, post your fax number and I will fax you the service bulletin. It also shows the proper placement of the two rubber plugs. PM's work too.

Be ready to shell out some serious coin for the factory original fuel pump. If you can find (I could not) an aftermarket fuel pump with the same mounting bracket attached, go for it. The mounting bracket is critical. Since the pump is mounted under the jack shaft, clearance and mounting position is very important.

 

[erik806]

RacerRob6m, thanks for the pics and explanation regarding the carburetor plug location and proof you work on and like Phazers, I have a 1998 Phazer SS which did NOT have the 2 hole primary nozzle update, did have the newer carb body, and does require one of the plugs to go over the pilot jet as is completely contrary to what seems logical AND contrary to the Yamaha shop manual that I have. With the carb plugs in the wrong spot sled would fire up and idle ok. any throttle would create a massively rich WOT bog, spark plugs would come out basically soaked in gas. Pull clutch side carb intake (airbox) boot off carb, pull out clutch side carb and twist up carb assembly toward stator side leaving everything hooked up, less than 15-20 min to switch plug locations and it's a sweet running sled again! Makes one appreciate that dumb little plug.