mdbauer62
Member
Noticed the slead was riding low in the front last year. So, I just had my front KYB's rebuilt and gassed up, and put them back on. Pics show it looks with the rebuilt/recharged shocks put back on.
Notice the control arms are not even level.....also notice the bottom half of my spring coils are almost touching each other. the spring pics are with the adjusters out to "soft" setting. When I crank the spring adjusters up to raise the sled, the lower section of the coils all actually touch before any weight is applied.
Is this normal, or are my springs tired? Any pics of Vipers with KYB's would be appreciated for comparison.
Note: The sled only has 2,100 miles on it.
Notice the control arms are not even level.....also notice the bottom half of my spring coils are almost touching each other. the spring pics are with the adjusters out to "soft" setting. When I crank the spring adjusters up to raise the sled, the lower section of the coils all actually touch before any weight is applied.
Is this normal, or are my springs tired? Any pics of Vipers with KYB's would be appreciated for comparison.
Note: The sled only has 2,100 miles on it.
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mattyg1405
New member
sled looks slammed i dont know vipers but thats lower than my srx
ridergonwild5692
Member
ur gonna need different springs. i use to use firecat springs on mine. they are pretty damn stiff and also when the sled is jacked way up it makes them look alot better too
super1c
Super Moderator
Springs look normal. Put the sled on the ground without the dollies, they will change the ride height of sled. Check then and see where your at. They may be worn out but be sure. Remember rebuilding shocks has nothing to do with ride height, thats your spring. Try increasing the preload a touch and see where it sits. Here was my post. http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73669&highlight=front+end+sag CCC
mdbauer62
Member
Thx for the feedback. super1C, I appreciate the the pics of your Viper, and hope your "wifes front end sag" is fixed :-) I like the Victoria's secret idea though....
I am working to make the Viper as comfortable on the trail as possible since these old bones and muscles don't recover as quick any more. Used to be I was a lttle sore after the first day of a ride, but now it takes a week or so to recover...old body, young at heart I guess.
For ride comfort I ditched the no-action and added a reconditioned metric M10 w/Fox's last year, and am working on rider position by adjusting the 3.5" Rox riser and raising the seat up. I wish I had the funds for a Boss seat and Ohlins all around but my wife though Christmas presents for the kids was more important.....go figure.
question: when I took my front shocks off, I could compress the piston with some pressure, and after charging, they seemed a little stiffer but I could still compress them fairly easily.I seem to remember that when I had the rear Fox's for the M10 charged, they were real hard to compress. Is this determined by the valving, or the gas pressure? I am OK with engines and drive train, but not a suspension whiz.....
I am working to make the Viper as comfortable on the trail as possible since these old bones and muscles don't recover as quick any more. Used to be I was a lttle sore after the first day of a ride, but now it takes a week or so to recover...old body, young at heart I guess.
For ride comfort I ditched the no-action and added a reconditioned metric M10 w/Fox's last year, and am working on rider position by adjusting the 3.5" Rox riser and raising the seat up. I wish I had the funds for a Boss seat and Ohlins all around but my wife though Christmas presents for the kids was more important.....go figure.
question: when I took my front shocks off, I could compress the piston with some pressure, and after charging, they seemed a little stiffer but I could still compress them fairly easily.I seem to remember that when I had the rear Fox's for the M10 charged, they were real hard to compress. Is this determined by the valving, or the gas pressure? I am OK with engines and drive train, but not a suspension whiz.....
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super1c
Super Moderator
I can compress my KYB's also without much problem, this is normal. The comp is determined on valving as you stated without the spring on. The spring does most of the work and determines your ride height. Someone on here put some IQ springs on from a polaris and it raised the front up quiet a bit but didnt see how it rode. Seeing you just had them rebuilt i would increase the preload a bid and see how it rides. If still not right get a new set of springs. Sure you can find a good set for cheap around here. CCC
thunder66
New member
I'm new to the sleds and their suspension but those look like some tired out springs to me... and I not sure sure about the progressive rate springs that I see on a lot of sleds. In the dirt bike world they never seemed to be a good thing. They try to accomplish a compromise with them but I think a good suspension tuner can do much better with straight rate springs that hold the machine up where it belongs ride height wise and good valving. Just my .02.
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mdbauer62
Member
Seems like the springs shouldn't be tired at 2,200 miles.....
I guess I will just add preload as necessary to get the control arms level or slightly above level. Not sure how to get some IQ springs, but if anyone on the forum has any, I will consider.
CCC - Do you know the measurement for the pre-load you put into your wifes Viper springs? I usually just measure the spring length, buth the owners manual measures the bottom part of the shock. I found a reference in the Viper owners manual of a range of 118-138.5 mm measured from the center of bottom bolt to bottom of the spring. I also found another reference in the service manual to a measured spring length of 250 -263 mm.
Tried both and still get sag...where are yours at?
I guess I will just add preload as necessary to get the control arms level or slightly above level. Not sure how to get some IQ springs, but if anyone on the forum has any, I will consider.
CCC - Do you know the measurement for the pre-load you put into your wifes Viper springs? I usually just measure the spring length, buth the owners manual measures the bottom part of the shock. I found a reference in the Viper owners manual of a range of 118-138.5 mm measured from the center of bottom bolt to bottom of the spring. I also found another reference in the service manual to a measured spring length of 250 -263 mm.
Tried both and still get sag...where are yours at?
hereismylife
Active member
Well under the suspension page on my link explains the suspension if you like to read...maybe that will help you out....
thunder66
New member
I've been doing some searching and it seems that there may have been a few Vipers with your issue. And it may be a combination of the soft springs, shocks in need of rebuild and possibly the rear suspension set up placing more weight on the front end as in your limiter straps being tightened way down. There is no way it should be sitting the way yours does that's for sure.
WNYViper
New member
I dont have much preload adjusted on these Ohlins, just for comparison...
super1c
Super Moderator
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74377&page=2&pp=10
Here's the post of the IQ springs on the stock KYB's. Remember 2 totally diff animals compared to stock springs. If you want more ride height you will probably need to change to "ohlins" or different springs. A stock viper with minimal preload will have the rods level or slightly higher. My wifes preload set with no weight on front of sled (ski's in air) is set at 258mm kinda right in the middle for spring length. If i crank that up closer to 250 it does bring that ride height up quiet a bit but will sacrafice ride comfort and the wifes about comfort. Stock specs with with ski's in air is 250 -263.5. If you put on a lot or close to max preload and front still saging bad maybe time for more springs. Remember 250 max preload max ride height. Standard is 260mm new. Even though its only got 2200miles its got 8yrs of weight sitting on front. So they may be worn down a bit. I would move that preload closer to 250mm, check ride heith with sled flat on groung (no dollies) and see how it rides. Then take it from their. CCC
Here's the post of the IQ springs on the stock KYB's. Remember 2 totally diff animals compared to stock springs. If you want more ride height you will probably need to change to "ohlins" or different springs. A stock viper with minimal preload will have the rods level or slightly higher. My wifes preload set with no weight on front of sled (ski's in air) is set at 258mm kinda right in the middle for spring length. If i crank that up closer to 250 it does bring that ride height up quiet a bit but will sacrafice ride comfort and the wifes about comfort. Stock specs with with ski's in air is 250 -263.5. If you put on a lot or close to max preload and front still saging bad maybe time for more springs. Remember 250 max preload max ride height. Standard is 260mm new. Even though its only got 2200miles its got 8yrs of weight sitting on front. So they may be worn down a bit. I would move that preload closer to 250mm, check ride heith with sled flat on groung (no dollies) and see how it rides. Then take it from their. CCC
mdbauer62
Member
S1C / WnyViper / J_K_Auto - thanks !!
S1C - I didn't realize I should measure the pre-loaded spring length with the front unloaded. I will try that.
The IQ springs look like they'd be kinda stiff...trying to keep my Viper comfy through the bumps if I can. My old pogo VMAX was real stiff in the front and I had to wrestle it through the corner woops that are too common in mIchigan. I rode and was jealous of my buddies SXR600, so...that how the Viper came to be in my garage.
BTW- I do have my front limiter strap on my M10 out quite far to unload the front skis. In fact, with sled off the dollies and on the pavement, the rear of the skid is about 1 in off the ground. When I sit on the sled, the skid levels out and the limiter strap has a little slack.
If all else fails, I will just run the adjusters up to level out the suspension rods and see how she rides. Maybe next year I'll have the $$$$ for some Ohlins all around......
S1C - I didn't realize I should measure the pre-loaded spring length with the front unloaded. I will try that.
The IQ springs look like they'd be kinda stiff...trying to keep my Viper comfy through the bumps if I can. My old pogo VMAX was real stiff in the front and I had to wrestle it through the corner woops that are too common in mIchigan. I rode and was jealous of my buddies SXR600, so...that how the Viper came to be in my garage.
BTW- I do have my front limiter strap on my M10 out quite far to unload the front skis. In fact, with sled off the dollies and on the pavement, the rear of the skid is about 1 in off the ground. When I sit on the sled, the skid levels out and the limiter strap has a little slack.
If all else fails, I will just run the adjusters up to level out the suspension rods and see how she rides. Maybe next year I'll have the $$$$ for some Ohlins all around......
thunder66
New member
mdbauer62 said:
Proper springs won't be to stiff but if your springs are sacked or to soft then you will be riding to low and without much travel left and your shock will now feel stiffer also. Springs are really there to set the ride height and return the shock to that position after hitting a bump. Shock oil and valving are the key to the plush or firm ride. And be careful because simply slapping some Ohlins on it won't magically transform it. They need to be adjusted/sprung/valved correctly or you could end up unhappy.
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