So I started a thread a while back wondering how/why my viper burned down at the end of this season.... here's the thread.
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79451&page=1&pp=10
I am in college and haven't had much time to dig into the engine but I came home for a few days and started to take the rest of the top end off and pull the carbs. Turns out all of my carb boots from the airbox to the carb rack were completely loose. As I stated in the last post, I was having issues with it before the burndown and the shop down the road from me was the last to touch the carbs (I usually do all my own carb work). So they did forget to tighten all the boots. I've seen people talking about it on TY but haven't found a definite answer. Can that possibly be the cause? It seems like it could be possible since all three cylinders are starting to look they are running lean and it makes sense that the center would burn up first since it takes the most heat. Any help or suggestions is appreciated!! I hope there are stil enough guys on TY even if it's mid April. Thanks
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79451&page=1&pp=10
I am in college and haven't had much time to dig into the engine but I came home for a few days and started to take the rest of the top end off and pull the carbs. Turns out all of my carb boots from the airbox to the carb rack were completely loose. As I stated in the last post, I was having issues with it before the burndown and the shop down the road from me was the last to touch the carbs (I usually do all my own carb work). So they did forget to tighten all the boots. I've seen people talking about it on TY but haven't found a definite answer. Can that possibly be the cause? It seems like it could be possible since all three cylinders are starting to look they are running lean and it makes sense that the center would burn up first since it takes the most heat. Any help or suggestions is appreciated!! I hope there are stil enough guys on TY even if it's mid April. Thanks
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
Yes indeed it can! Carbs are set up to mix fuel/air with restiction of airbox in the equation. For example go to tech pages and look up air box mod. It require tweeking settings of carbs to prevent lean condition from increased air flow. Loose boots would be the same as Increased flow in airbox. Kind of like not having enough back pressure on exhaust (springs, donuts) only the opposite end!
hmmm. Looks like i'll be making a call to the shop tomorrow! I'll let u know what they say tomorrow.
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
I wish you the best of luck but I expect them to tell you S.O.L. very few "shops" will stand behind their work, and yet they will hire some folks that I personally would worry about them pumping gas into my sled.
bluebandit98
New member
wish in one shit in another tryin to get them to admit theyre at fault is like gettin a cheatin wife to come clean
I have a cash bet that says I can take the boots between the carbs and air box off completly on my Viper and NOT have it burn down.
Search my name for the REAL problem and the 40 dollar fix.
Search my name for the REAL problem and the 40 dollar fix.
stingray719 said:
I guess if you took the boots off completely, the sled wouldnt run so that would deffinitely lessen the risk of a burn down!
Devil simply answered the question that was asked, he didnt say that this was the cause of this particular problem. If your 40 dollar fix will cure this issue, great, but your post wasnt the type that would give you much credability( kind of sarcastic sounding).
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
Aparently the opticool head gasket is the best insurance known to man if it will prevent all burn down no matter what the scenario. So in theory as long as you have an opti-cool gasket you can run with loose boots,stale low octane fuel, plugged pilots and I am guessing you could even stop buying injection oil all together as well! I only hope they make one for my sxr and srx soon!
09nytro
New member
WOW !!! can't wait till my opti - cool gets here then i will never have to clean my carbs or anything ... Hahahaha just kidding ..never herd of a sled running very long with carb boots loose
Read again, boots between carbs and airbox. Have you never took off airbox while cleaning carbs and took a test run with the box off?
And of course it would lean out a sled but not enough to burn it down if everything else is right. His sled did not burn down because of loose airbox boots. Loose boots did not help but he fell prey to the awful head design of the Viper, and telling him different isn't helping him fix his sled for the long haul.
Bet still stands though. I can take the airbox boots off and run a 10 mile loop and not burn it down.
And of course it would lean out a sled but not enough to burn it down if everything else is right. His sled did not burn down because of loose airbox boots. Loose boots did not help but he fell prey to the awful head design of the Viper, and telling him different isn't helping him fix his sled for the long haul.
Bet still stands though. I can take the airbox boots off and run a 10 mile loop and not burn it down.
Actually it was. Because no matter how many times you explain to people the KNOWN issue with Vipers head design and aggressive timing somebody will burn down and people here will give advice for everything but the problem.
Anybody keep count of the blown Vipers this year? And yes, the fuel situation made the problem worse.....but fuel was not what is the root cause. Sure, loose boots, plugged jets, etc make this worse and tip the already leaning scales. But please, at least mention the Vipers known issues so guys that come here for info do not rebuild and blow it up again.
If its stock jetting anything bove 0 degrees I wouldnt think loose boots on the airbox side would burn it down. Now if it was really cold I can see it happening. But they are jetted on the rich side from the factory. What was the temp? Ayway just one opinion not trying to say its not possible.
You hit the point I was trying to make captnviper. If EVERYTHING else is right loose boots airbox boots wont blow an engine. Fix the head issue and raise the carb needles (to mitigate aggresive timing advance curve) before you rebuild it or risk blowing it up again.
Would you recommend raising the needles or jetting up a size, the shop i go to for advice said not to raise the needle and just swap the main jet out. Will definitely be getting the opticool gasket. Any recommendations on where to get OEM pistons/rings and a new center cylinder? If they're cheap enough i might just put all new pistons in. They've got 5k on em. They'll still last a while but i might feel comfortable just having all new ones in. Do you agree or disagree? And do you know how to properly clean the crankcase out?
Get your main jet right, then raise the needle. Viper has a very aggressive timing curve the SRX does not have. I suggest raising needles untill you get a slight burble at 2/3 throttle.
Now, I am NOT recommending this....but in the past when the situation dictated we would turn the engine upside down and squirt alot of gas in the crankcase while turning over slowly. We did this on motorcycles though because it was such a pain to pull trans apart. On a snowmobile it is so quick to take apart I would not risk it. Pull it down and inspect.
I bought the last cylinder on Fleabay. Have not looked in awhile. Yeah, buy all new pistons and rings with those miles. I would for sure.
Now, I am NOT recommending this....but in the past when the situation dictated we would turn the engine upside down and squirt alot of gas in the crankcase while turning over slowly. We did this on motorcycles though because it was such a pain to pull trans apart. On a snowmobile it is so quick to take apart I would not risk it. Pull it down and inspect.
I bought the last cylinder on Fleabay. Have not looked in awhile. Yeah, buy all new pistons and rings with those miles. I would for sure.
Okay not to throw another wrench into this but...
I don't think loost boots between the carb and airbox on a stock viper would couse you to burn down for a couple reasons.
1) mine ran that way for the first 1500kms of its life as the dealer did not seat the pto boot correctly and it was half off the carb. Now my crank did go at 7500kms but it was the mag cylinder thet went. Totaly opposite side of the engine.
2) the carbs are vented to the airbox. this means that they run way bigger jets than carb vented to atmosphere as the pressure in the airbox is now the pressure in the float bowls. This means thatif all you boots are tight at any engine rpm your air pressure is lower in your airbox due to bernoulli's principle ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle ) The hight the airflow the lower the pressure in the airbox therefor the lower the pressure in the float bowls. If your carbs were loose or not connected properly to the airbox then all their air was not comming from the airbox as usual resulting in a decreased flow i9n the air box, therefore a hight pressure in the air box and float bowls. This higher pressure would lead to more fuel at any rpm range. (remeber this is for the viper only) So really your sled would be running rich.
3) The same thing happend to my dad's 2005 venture/viper at the dealer and the plugs read rich during the whole time.
4) for fun try disconnecting your carb vent from the airbox. After about 3 minutes you will not be able to pull over 7500rpm as the sled will be pig rich.
I don't think loost boots between the carb and airbox on a stock viper would couse you to burn down for a couple reasons.
1) mine ran that way for the first 1500kms of its life as the dealer did not seat the pto boot correctly and it was half off the carb. Now my crank did go at 7500kms but it was the mag cylinder thet went. Totaly opposite side of the engine.
2) the carbs are vented to the airbox. this means that they run way bigger jets than carb vented to atmosphere as the pressure in the airbox is now the pressure in the float bowls. This means thatif all you boots are tight at any engine rpm your air pressure is lower in your airbox due to bernoulli's principle ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle ) The hight the airflow the lower the pressure in the airbox therefor the lower the pressure in the float bowls. If your carbs were loose or not connected properly to the airbox then all their air was not comming from the airbox as usual resulting in a decreased flow i9n the air box, therefore a hight pressure in the air box and float bowls. This higher pressure would lead to more fuel at any rpm range. (remeber this is for the viper only) So really your sled would be running rich.
3) The same thing happend to my dad's 2005 venture/viper at the dealer and the plugs read rich during the whole time.
4) for fun try disconnecting your carb vent from the airbox. After about 3 minutes you will not be able to pull over 7500rpm as the sled will be pig rich.
Sorry stingray719 ,,,,,, a loose boot or any air induced into the engine that is not planed or regulated will take out an engine,, whether or not it has a 40. dollar gasket...... Take your sled for a half a day 75 mile ride for regular riders,,,,,,,, ripping on it and get back to use with your results...... bfg.......... only 10 miles at a time DOES NOT count.........ralph,,,,,,stingray719 said:
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
The original question was "is it possible?" answer is yes. He even talked about center cylinder and poor head design in original post. And this was over at least 200 miles some of which he admited he missed some crap in carbs. I am in no way shape or form saying any one on here is wrong. Exactly the opposite actually. If I ever own a viper it will have the opticool gasket and I will raise needles, Just in case! My buddy has an 02 and a 04 that both have over 5000 miles on them and they are both as he got them from dealer and have had ZERO problems related to poor head design. I myself would plan on not being that lucky!