gil7247
VIP Member
What I thought would be a simple proposition of installing a new track and studs on my viper was far from simple. I tried to do my homework and gather as much info as I could before I started, because I know if I get this wrong I'll have no traction or worse a tore up track / sled and be out about $800 and alot of work.
I found my 1" hacksaw track is really only a little over 3/4" in lug height and is a total of 1" including the thickness of the track. I only want .250 to .375 penetration so I am left to subtract the oal of the stud from the total height of the track including the belt thickness and hope I do the math right.
There are 4 stud sizes in the approximate range so I went by the only 2 dealers in a 25 mile radius of me and attempted to buy one each of those studs to do a test fit to make sure of which one works best before buying 144 studs. Ofcourse niether one would do that, they would just tell me either buy 24 of each or "go by the book". When I asked how would you pick between the 4 sizes that are close, I got just domb looks and shoulder shrugs.
Dealers complain about the internet competition for price and say for the extra money you get customer service with them, but I haven't found that to be true anymore not atleast in my area.
So my best option turns out to be just to buy the smallest quanity of the length, that's my "best guess" and hope I get it right.
This has certainly effected my opinion on the dealer vs the internet arguement and hopefully by reading this someone else will know exactly what they're getting into when they decide to do a project like this. It's not as simple as "looking at the book".
Gil
I found my 1" hacksaw track is really only a little over 3/4" in lug height and is a total of 1" including the thickness of the track. I only want .250 to .375 penetration so I am left to subtract the oal of the stud from the total height of the track including the belt thickness and hope I do the math right.
There are 4 stud sizes in the approximate range so I went by the only 2 dealers in a 25 mile radius of me and attempted to buy one each of those studs to do a test fit to make sure of which one works best before buying 144 studs. Ofcourse niether one would do that, they would just tell me either buy 24 of each or "go by the book". When I asked how would you pick between the 4 sizes that are close, I got just domb looks and shoulder shrugs.
Dealers complain about the internet competition for price and say for the extra money you get customer service with them, but I haven't found that to be true anymore not atleast in my area.
So my best option turns out to be just to buy the smallest quanity of the length, that's my "best guess" and hope I get it right.
This has certainly effected my opinion on the dealer vs the internet arguement and hopefully by reading this someone else will know exactly what they're getting into when they decide to do a project like this. It's not as simple as "looking at the book".
Gil
Last edited:
gil7247
VIP Member
UPDATE: I got a call from Rich from CB Performance, what a great guy. He totally understood and agreed with my concerns. He's gonna get me some singles in the different sizes that I can try. Once I know which will work best I'll return the unused ones and order 144 of the right size and plates from him. I wasn't talking about a $20 part, it'll be around $290 for everything. That's the kind of customer service companies need to get back to if they want solid repeat business. CB performance won me over!! Gil
Macheater
New member
Gil, glad to hear your pointed in the right direction. For your own info and possibly anyone else that may be in your position. You seem to be over analyzing just a bit. Consider a 1 inch track to be just that (despite its actual measurement). As far as stud length, most manufacturers recommend an extra 1/4 to 3-/8 of penetration. Which would put you at 1.25 to 1.375 as your 2 choices. Which to choose? Most are concerned (and rightfully so) about stud pull through. The longer the stud the more likely that is to happen. Especially if you run less than the number you should be running for the horsepower your making. Also. I would tend to err on the side of caution and run the shorter stud since you don't want to run into clearance issues. I am NOT familiar with what you can get away with on a viper so I cannot say for sure. Hopefully a viper owner will chime in and help ya out. Hope this helps! 
gil7247
VIP Member
Macheater,
That was the point of my post and why I wanted the actual studs because the math didn't add up. The manufactures give you 2 sizes for each stud, the overall legth as well as the "effective length" which if you read the literature is a measurement from the tip to the top of the backer plate. Now this plate is slightly over an 1/8th "(.145) so you need to add that to the effective length and compare it to your lug height.
I was told to get 1.080 studs for my sled and track.I took the effective length of the 1.080" then I added .145 for the backer thinckness giving me 1.225. My lug height measures at between 13/16 and 7/8, so lets say it .840". 1.225 minus .840 just about exactly 3/8th inch penetration or the max considered safe. So perfect right?
Well, not exactly.if I take the oal for that same stud of 1.508 and assuming you draw the head flush, subtract my total track height including lug is just over 1" 1.060 at the most I get .448" prentration. Almost 1/2" which is way outside what most consider proper.
I know I'm justifying my reason to test fit the different sizes. But how many of us have heard horror storys about studs breaking, pulling thru or ruining something and the guys who dicount the use of studs because they "wreck your sled". Also how many stories or sleds have you seen when the guy was running whatever he got cheap and screwed it into his track. I think these are all the same people and the reason is lack of preperation and attention to detail.
I may be overanalyzing this but on a nearly $1000 upgrade I will be sure it's right and won't be one of the guys telling a horror story about studs.
That was the point of my post and why I wanted the actual studs because the math didn't add up. The manufactures give you 2 sizes for each stud, the overall legth as well as the "effective length" which if you read the literature is a measurement from the tip to the top of the backer plate. Now this plate is slightly over an 1/8th "(.145) so you need to add that to the effective length and compare it to your lug height.
I was told to get 1.080 studs for my sled and track.I took the effective length of the 1.080" then I added .145 for the backer thinckness giving me 1.225. My lug height measures at between 13/16 and 7/8, so lets say it .840". 1.225 minus .840 just about exactly 3/8th inch penetration or the max considered safe. So perfect right?
Well, not exactly.if I take the oal for that same stud of 1.508 and assuming you draw the head flush, subtract my total track height including lug is just over 1" 1.060 at the most I get .448" prentration. Almost 1/2" which is way outside what most consider proper.
I know I'm justifying my reason to test fit the different sizes. But how many of us have heard horror storys about studs breaking, pulling thru or ruining something and the guys who dicount the use of studs because they "wreck your sled". Also how many stories or sleds have you seen when the guy was running whatever he got cheap and screwed it into his track. I think these are all the same people and the reason is lack of preperation and attention to detail.
I may be overanalyzing this but on a nearly $1000 upgrade I will be sure it's right and won't be one of the guys telling a horror story about studs.
Last edited:
Macheater
New member
Gil, I completely understand your concerns. Fortuately for us snowmobilers the stud manufacturers have done an excellent job of figuring out what works best for the large number of sleds on the market. The research has already been done for us. I would recommend you consult one of the stud manufacturers websites for additional information on installing studs. Woodys website is the one I am most familiar with, but I'm sure there are others. There is a wealth of information on stud type, and length, number of studs for your type of riding and machine your riding etc. They also have a stud recommendation chart which is very helpful. Or contact them and speak to someone personally. As long as you follow these recommendations you should be in good shape. Good Luck!
Macheater
New member
Just checked Woodys website and they recommeded a 1.075 for your machine. My bad! But that's why ya always get recommedations from the experts.
gil7247
VIP Member
Mac,
I read all of the sites woodys studboy etc... That's where I got my facts and firgures from as well as discovered the discrepencies in the measurements (OAL VS Effective length) Don't get me wrong they were very helpful I've even talked to the guys at Studboy as they are only 10 miles from here and they were great.
I just don't understand how on some things guys are so techincal (jetting , needle settings, clearences to the thousandth, clutch weight to the 1/10th of a gram) and on this they are just kind of like, "that should work".
To me it's like putting a $10k prostock, balanced, dynotuned motor in your car then running down to discount tire and buying what ever is on sale that fits your rims. It jsut doesn't make sense. But thank you for listening to my ramble and I did get with CB for some singles so I can just confirm my selection on studs being the right ones before I buy 144 of them. For that I will surely be buying mine from them.
Gil
I read all of the sites woodys studboy etc... That's where I got my facts and firgures from as well as discovered the discrepencies in the measurements (OAL VS Effective length) Don't get me wrong they were very helpful I've even talked to the guys at Studboy as they are only 10 miles from here and they were great.
I just don't understand how on some things guys are so techincal (jetting , needle settings, clearences to the thousandth, clutch weight to the 1/10th of a gram) and on this they are just kind of like, "that should work".
To me it's like putting a $10k prostock, balanced, dynotuned motor in your car then running down to discount tire and buying what ever is on sale that fits your rims. It jsut doesn't make sense. But thank you for listening to my ramble and I did get with CB for some singles so I can just confirm my selection on studs being the right ones before I buy 144 of them. For that I will surely be buying mine from them.
Gil
Last edited:
super1c
Super Moderator
Man gil sorry to hear your having problems with the track and studs. The whole size thing can get confusing. Sounds like your doing it the right way and CB is treating you right. Im suprized a 1" hacksaw isnt a 1" lug? The best way i have found to do it is just know your overall length of track and lug and compare to overall length of stud but i know it aint that easy for sure. Keep us posted. I had a awesome chart from extreme max studs at one tome that had a great pic on stud lenght but cant find it. If i do ill post it. Chris
gil7247
VIP Member
Thanks Chris, I'd like to see that chart if you find it. I agree the safest way is to pick based on OAL and total track height including lug and track thickness. I just was trying to confirm my choice by getting singles. In that size there's 4 possible sizes .875 .960 1.0 and 1.075. Those are all w/i 1/4" of eachother. I know 1 will definate look the best if I put them on the track and look at them side by side. I hate being that picky but hey it's almost $300 and I want to be conifdent in my choice.
Gil
Gil
super1c
Super Moderator
http://www.extrememax.com/support/application-guide.php here's the link. Then click on the extreme max platinnum and fat head studs. Just kinda helped me. I hope the links ok for the mods!
gil7247
VIP Member
Thanks Chris, if you look at that chart their 1.00 has an OAL of 1.290 where the studboy oal for a 1.00" stud is 1.448 (with woody's falling inbetween. that's almost 3/16ths difference between studs. If you're trying to hit 3/8" penetration you could easily go over by up to an 1/8" and be closer to 1/2" just by the brand you choose.
I think I'm pretty settled on 1.00" studboys for just a little over 1/4" penetration if I did the math right. I'm still gonna get a couple from Rich at CB and run them arround before I order and put them all in. Gil
I think I'm pretty settled on 1.00" studboys for just a little over 1/4" penetration if I did the math right. I'm still gonna get a couple from Rich at CB and run them arround before I order and put them all in. Gil
What did you end up going with?
I just studded a 1" Hacksaw track for my SRX with 144 Woody's 1.175 studs and I would guess that they stick out almost 1/2" past the lugs. And yes, you are correct about the track not being a true 1" lug. Mine's not either.
I just studded a 1" Hacksaw track for my SRX with 144 Woody's 1.175 studs and I would guess that they stick out almost 1/2" past the lugs. And yes, you are correct about the track not being a true 1" lug. Mine's not either.
Argento102
Member
Roetin Hornets 
gil7247
VIP Member
Update: I saw a good deal on some Woody's gold diggers 1". When I looked up the overall length and measaured my track again they looked like they would work. Well, I just got done installing them. When I lay some flat stock across the lugs and measure how much they stick up past, I get 5/16" penetration. I couldn't be happier. The next size up would've put me past the 3/8th" penetration that they recommend as max. I'm glad I did my homework and just didn't go with whatever stud size someone just told me off the top of their head. I'll try to take some pics of them installed and post them as I know alot of guys on here run 1" hacksaw tracks. Gil
SRXxout
New member
Feedback/pictures
Wondering if you had a chance to try out the studs. I have the same track on my SRX and trying to decide 1" or 1.07". I live on the river and run hard pack over ice a lot.
Wondering if you had a chance to try out the studs. I have the same track on my SRX and trying to decide 1" or 1.07". I live on the river and run hard pack over ice a lot.
gil7247
VIP Member
No I haven't had a chance yet (no snow
) but they stickup a little over 1/4" closer to 5/16" so I'm thinking they should do good. I run mostly on hardpacked trail no realy lakes or rivers. I wanted to gain studs without ricking any damage. I'm sure between the studs and the hacksaw track it should be a big improvement over the stock track unstudded. I'll post when I ever get to try it out. Gil
) but they stickup a little over 1/4" closer to 5/16" so I'm thinking they should do good. I run mostly on hardpacked trail no realy lakes or rivers. I wanted to gain studs without ricking any damage. I'm sure between the studs and the hacksaw track it should be a big improvement over the stock track unstudded. I'll post when I ever get to try it out. Gil
I had the same concerns when installing studs on my 1 1/4 ripsawed Viper. Got all kinds of input from members that thought they knew what they were talking about. Ended up with 1.175's that gave me exactly 1/4" penetration. A few members argued that the 1.175's were less then 1 1/4" and there was no way I had 1/4" penetration.
Pictures proved them wrong.
One member argued that 1/4" penetration wasnt worth the investment. Im not a drag racer, but can tell you that my snowflap stays behind me on icey roads a hell of a lot better with them, then without.
Good info Gil, glad to see you did your own homework like I did
Pictures proved them wrong.
One member argued that 1/4" penetration wasnt worth the investment. Im not a drag racer, but can tell you that my snowflap stays behind me on icey roads a hell of a lot better with them, then without.
Good info Gil, glad to see you did your own homework like I did
Last edited:
super1c
Super Moderator
Yup its all about overall stud length and total depth of track. Every company measures tracks and studs different!
gil7247
VIP Member
After what I went through trying to get it right and getting so much worng info, I felt I had to post my findings and hopefully save someone else from problems with bad info. It did explain one thing though. I think that is the source of some of the negitive opinions I heard about studs (bending, pullouts, sled damage). The ones that complained about studs (2 dealer parts manages/ service managers) had recommended studs that were way too long. I was told " 1" track + 3/8" penetration you need 1.325 studs. Those studs have an OAL of 1.727!! If I listened to them they would've sold me studs that were 3/4" taller then my lugs. Bent studs, pull throughs, tunnel & exchanger damage, duh!!, no wonder!!!
Gil
Gil
SRXxout
New member
Studs 1" Hacksaw
Well after reading all the post several times and measuring again and again, I rolled the dice and went with 1.075 Woody's Gold Diggers in my Camoplast 1" Hacksaw. I tried to attach a picture but new to TY and not sure on the results of attachment. If the pic does post, the line is at 5/16"
Results are exactly 11/32" (.34375) penatration. That's 1/32" under 3/8" max. SAFE! That's measuring right to the very tip of the point and torqued just short of stripping the nut. Plenty of clearance on the front cooler and I'm comfortable with the outcome. Balanced it out up front with Yamaha 7.5" Shapers by Stud Boy.
Thank you Gil for throwing the breaks on. Made me rethink going with 1.175.
Well after reading all the post several times and measuring again and again, I rolled the dice and went with 1.075 Woody's Gold Diggers in my Camoplast 1" Hacksaw. I tried to attach a picture but new to TY and not sure on the results of attachment. If the pic does post, the line is at 5/16"
Results are exactly 11/32" (.34375) penatration. That's 1/32" under 3/8" max. SAFE! That's measuring right to the very tip of the point and torqued just short of stripping the nut. Plenty of clearance on the front cooler and I'm comfortable with the outcome. Balanced it out up front with Yamaha 7.5" Shapers by Stud Boy.
Thank you Gil for throwing the breaks on. Made me rethink going with 1.175.
