Hey folks,
I am looking for some measurements for relocating a skid on a 1988 Phazer. The goal of this is to use a 121" track. I have done some reading and moving it back 2.5" seems to be the number. Can I just drill a new hole in the plate or does the plate need to be relocated? What size track can I squeeze under it? We can get a pretty good deal on either a 1 1/4" Ripsaw or a 1" Predator. I think the Predator would be plenty for this sled, and light years ahead of the stocker. Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks.
I am looking for some measurements for relocating a skid on a 1988 Phazer. The goal of this is to use a 121" track. I have done some reading and moving it back 2.5" seems to be the number. Can I just drill a new hole in the plate or does the plate need to be relocated? What size track can I squeeze under it? We can get a pretty good deal on either a 1 1/4" Ripsaw or a 1" Predator. I think the Predator would be plenty for this sled, and light years ahead of the stocker. Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks.
the 1 1/4 will be tight. the 1" will clear a little better.
i have done a few of these conversions and you are correct on the 2.5" move. i always remove and relocate the plates and associated hanging hardware. a template insures the arc motion of the suspension stays correct.
fasteners for the plates is a key element. you dont want to use cheap hardware store rivets. nuts and bolts are acceptable. i prefer button head allens and whizlocks if you go that route. aircraft style buck rivets are my preferred choice. any of the cherrymax or stavex type rivets are a good choice if you have an air riveter.
i may still have a template laying around but its simple to make your own.
i have done a few of these conversions and you are correct on the 2.5" move. i always remove and relocate the plates and associated hanging hardware. a template insures the arc motion of the suspension stays correct.
fasteners for the plates is a key element. you dont want to use cheap hardware store rivets. nuts and bolts are acceptable. i prefer button head allens and whizlocks if you go that route. aircraft style buck rivets are my preferred choice. any of the cherrymax or stavex type rivets are a good choice if you have an air riveter.
i may still have a template laying around but its simple to make your own.
Just looking at the sled a bit more....did you make new "drop brackets" for the rear mount? If you move it back the bracket will end up higher and actually drop the rear of the sled. This could be solved by new brackets. I may just order some SLP drop brackets and leave the stockers in place. Any Yamaha places sell any? Thanks.
yes, always do. i use either 3/16 or 1/4 aluminum plate, whichever i have available. a little raise in the rear doesnt hurt, but you can over do it. you can also shim your stockers a bit. stock brackets from a 121 phazer work. i have a used set of generic aftermarkets somewhere that would probably suit your needs.
surprised you werent concerned about encroaching on the rear tunnel bumper support bracket. you probably havent got that far yet. with the aluminum plate, you can easily curf the back side to clear these brackets. you can also give yourself optional mounting holes making your own drop brackets.
surprised you werent concerned about encroaching on the rear tunnel bumper support bracket. you probably havent got that far yet. with the aluminum plate, you can easily curf the back side to clear these brackets. you can also give yourself optional mounting holes making your own drop brackets.
oh I am concerned about that rear support bracket....its quite large. I like the aluminum idea but don't have the means to weld it. I don't like how the aftermarket stuff is just down, and no support from the running board. Any pics of the ones you have fabbed....any spares laying around? I am guessing the aftermarket ones you have are the straight down version? Thanks for any help by the way....you seem to have gone a few rounds with these sleds. Me, I'm a polaris guy who gets stuck working on others sleds.
i just run the aluminum ones straight down with blatant disregard for the footboards at that intersection. if i remember correctly, the rear bumper picks up the load around that point so theres minimal structural concerns. for what its worth, and i rarely do this with drop brackets, but angle backers can easily be riveted to the drops to catch the boards, you just need to bend them accordingly as they arent 90* with the footboards. about 10* off i believe. speaking of polaris, i usually use this method on the early rmk chassis's.
the aftermarkets i have(if i can find them) are steel and do incorporate the footboards. had them on a pzII and cant for the life of me remember where i got them. they arent the cheasy crap you see on ebay. had these long before those came about. no worries on the straight drops, i have used them on several sled models with no negative effects.
the aftermarkets i have(if i can find them) are steel and do incorporate the footboards. had them on a pzII and cant for the life of me remember where i got them. they arent the cheasy crap you see on ebay. had these long before those came about. no worries on the straight drops, i have used them on several sled models with no negative effects.
Take some detailed pictures !!snowdad4 said:
i would have to work on some pics, not so good at getting those up.
i did run across the other drops as well as a polaris set.
i did run across the other drops as well as a polaris set.
Let me know what you would want for them...I actually put an order in for a couple pieces of aluminum and was going to start the fab on them. I dont want to drop or anything, just move the skid back in to use a 121" track. I suppose if a little drop was incorporated it would be ok....just seems easy to get the geometry off when doing both.
Phazer track swap
Doesn't any one make a rear track extension for a 116" to a 121" conversion like they do for a 121" to a 136" conversion? Will a skid from a Phazer II fit under a first gen Phazer? I am having the same problem and I only have four of these.
Doesn't any one make a rear track extension for a 116" to a 121" conversion like they do for a 121" to a 136" conversion? Will a skid from a Phazer II fit under a first gen Phazer? I am having the same problem and I only have four of these.
the trick to any skid relocate is duplicating the "arc" of the suspension. this is where a template comes in handy.
if you take anything rigid that you can drill and bolt thats about 1" wide, you can make your own based on your existing measures. simply mark where the skid mounts now on the template and then carefully measure and mark the points 2.5" back from the original holes, or move to the next step.
once you have carefully measured and redrilled the new holes for the front mount 2.5" back, loosely bolt your template to this new hole using the corresponding holes made earlier. by "arcing" the template, meaning your pivoting it on the bolt, anywhere the rear hole "strikes" the new drop brackets is where the rear holes need to be, so with careful planning you really have to be bad at measuring or drilling to upset the skids geometry.
confused yet? its easier for me to do or show than to type into words. you may also consider dropping the skid out of the tunnel a bit both front and rear. same principals apply, all must need to follow the arc. i usually drop the front point about 5/8". whichever route you take, the rear just needs to stay within the arc.
if you take anything rigid that you can drill and bolt thats about 1" wide, you can make your own based on your existing measures. simply mark where the skid mounts now on the template and then carefully measure and mark the points 2.5" back from the original holes, or move to the next step.
once you have carefully measured and redrilled the new holes for the front mount 2.5" back, loosely bolt your template to this new hole using the corresponding holes made earlier. by "arcing" the template, meaning your pivoting it on the bolt, anywhere the rear hole "strikes" the new drop brackets is where the rear holes need to be, so with careful planning you really have to be bad at measuring or drilling to upset the skids geometry.
confused yet? its easier for me to do or show than to type into words. you may also consider dropping the skid out of the tunnel a bit both front and rear. same principals apply, all must need to follow the arc. i usually drop the front point about 5/8". whichever route you take, the rear just needs to stay within the arc.
the pzII skids are not a direct bolt in. the rear bracket needs to move back 2.5" and you need to add the track carrier crosshaft. front holes are in the correct position.ottoauto said:
I'm going to get the aluminum plate and just get after it. Part of my delay is it isn't my sled or money. I will make the decision for him. I appreciate the assistance and will update as I go.
And just to be clear, I will move the front back 2 1/2" and down 5/8". With the template I will get the rear drop mounted and then mark/drill the rear hole. How much do you drop this one....I'm assuming more than 5/8".....more like 1 1/4" or so? Typically twice the amount front to rear?
So, using the template, the rear mount wouldn't actually go back the full 2.5" with some drop due to the arc of movement etc. Am I thinking correctly? I'm no engineer!
And just to be clear, I will move the front back 2 1/2" and down 5/8". With the template I will get the rear drop mounted and then mark/drill the rear hole. How much do you drop this one....I'm assuming more than 5/8".....more like 1 1/4" or so? Typically twice the amount front to rear?
So, using the template, the rear mount wouldn't actually go back the full 2.5" with some drop due to the arc of movement etc. Am I thinking correctly? I'm no engineer!
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Just an update and I am terrible with pictures, so they may not come until the end. I have the new track in, replaced hyfax, shocks and cleaned lubed the whole skid and am working on the rear drop brackets. One is done and the other is coming along, just a time consuming ordeal. I have a router attachment set up on my dremel and am taking material off the 1/4" aluminum plate where the existing bumper brackets are located in the tunnel. This is working well but slow, and with a newborn at home and working nights/weekends time is a valuable thing right now. I will post pics when I can. Thanks.
Thanks for all of your intelligent help. I am still leaning towards the WPS track extensions. Am I doing the right thing or wasting my money? Thanks!snowdad4 said:
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So here is the Phazer...nice sled for the year and I am stoked to see how it does with the new track, shocks etc. I went through the whole skid, replaced hyfax, replaced the shocks with RydeFx 8200's(front was a junker and was shot, rear was a fox rebuildable but the shaft was pitted bad), lubed, greased and cleaned everything up. Second pic shows the drop brackets I made for the rear....pain in the ace but hopefully worth it. I left the originals in place so there weren't holes etc. This was done to utilize a 121" track. The next pic shows the new track, which I believe is a Camoplast Carve(?) 1". Last pic is the finished drops with angle supports going to the running boards.
***Seat is just mocked up - getting new plywood and a cover, even though the Gorilla tape is good for another few hundred miles.
***Seat is just mocked up - getting new plywood and a cover, even though the Gorilla tape is good for another few hundred miles.
Attachments
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Just another update:
We received some snow....all 1/2". Ok maybe just over that but it was deemed enough to do a few yard rips on the Phazer after the whole skid relocate and 121x1 track install.
Let me tell yah, this sled rips for what it is. I would have never guessed the thing to go as well as it does and the track really puts the power down. I would imagine if we had some real snow that it would be a bit different but what a great running sled. All seems to be good with the suspension and how it is cycling and all. I wish we would have done a gas rear skid shock but even the 8200's are way better than what he had.
My only complaint is I can see the sliders being eaten up quick. These Yammis need bigger idler wheels and also a set closer to the bend in the rails. I see him coming around the corner and the idlers are barely spinning and with new hyfax, they barely touch the track. Any one have any thoughts?
I am thinking a set of Poo wheels I have are slightly bigger - throw them on and see what happens. I know there is an extra wheel kit available and also maybe an oversized wheel kit but I want to be done spending money on this thing. Not too sure we will be riding this year at all. They are saying 48 and rain next week.
We received some snow....all 1/2". Ok maybe just over that but it was deemed enough to do a few yard rips on the Phazer after the whole skid relocate and 121x1 track install.
Let me tell yah, this sled rips for what it is. I would have never guessed the thing to go as well as it does and the track really puts the power down. I would imagine if we had some real snow that it would be a bit different but what a great running sled. All seems to be good with the suspension and how it is cycling and all. I wish we would have done a gas rear skid shock but even the 8200's are way better than what he had.
My only complaint is I can see the sliders being eaten up quick. These Yammis need bigger idler wheels and also a set closer to the bend in the rails. I see him coming around the corner and the idlers are barely spinning and with new hyfax, they barely touch the track. Any one have any thoughts?
I am thinking a set of Poo wheels I have are slightly bigger - throw them on and see what happens. I know there is an extra wheel kit available and also maybe an oversized wheel kit but I want to be done spending money on this thing. Not too sure we will be riding this year at all. They are saying 48 and rain next week.
track relocate
You did a very nice job on the rear supports!!
You did a very nice job on the rear supports!!
Whitexc said:So here is the Phazer...nice sled for the year and I am stoked to see how it does with the new track, shocks etc. I went through the whole skid, replaced hyfax, replaced the shocks with RydeFx 8200's(front was a junker and was shot, rear was a fox rebuildable but the shaft was pitted bad), lubed, greased and cleaned everything up. Second pic shows the drop brackets I made for the rear....pain in the ace but hopefully worth it. I left the originals in place so there weren't holes etc. This was done to utilize a 121" track. The next pic shows the new track, which I believe is a Camoplast Carve(?) 1". Last pic is the finished drops with angle supports going to the running boards.
***Seat is just mocked up - getting new plywood and a cover, even though the Gorilla tape is good for another few hundred miles.
BornYamaha
Member
This does not help in any way, but I thought you might find this interesting. I owned Donohue's Eagle River winning snowcross Phazer in the late eighties. (I think he won with it in "85". (It was converted to trail use). It had the skid relocated back with a 121" track like you have done.