RS Vector vs Viper

We saw them run on some decent hard pack and are pretty impressive. Stock for stock the viper pulss harder on the bottom but the Vector has better mid and top end power. In around 1000 to 1200 feet the Vector would head on by. I think with alittle time the tuners will have them even out of the whole and carry them all the way through.
 
That's interesting. I have heard the other way around. Vector out of the hole through midrange, then the Viper out legs the Vector on top......??
 
I rode a vector at the yamaha demo rides here in Gaylord. The impression it left me with is what a P.O.S. The thing never felt like it was pulling hard. It vibrated something fierce and the clutch kept making hard thumping sounds like it was about to blow like a grenade.
I think Yamaha would have been better off using a R6 4 cyl. and reduction gears. Nearly the same HP and a tried and true engine.
MY .02
Tom
 
The R6 engine has no torque, its all high-rev power. Besides, the R6 is only 90-95 hp.
The reason why the Vector doesnt feel as fast as your Viper is because of its powerband. Where a 2-stroke hits hard and has what is called "snap", a 4-stroke's powerband is smoother and more linear.
I have heard stories about clutch noise on the Vector though. I still want a Vector though!!!
Hebi
 
Hebi,
The R6 motor would develop additional torque through reducing the RPM's from around 15000 at the crank to 8500 at the primary. Wouldn't that nearly double the torque?
Anyway, I'm sure someone at Yamaha must have kicked around the idea after the success of the R1 transplant and found it wouldn't work for one reason or another.
As for buying a Vector I would consider spending a little more and getting an 05' RX-1.
TONS of power and the new mono shock rear skid works great. I considered buying one but I couldn't get past the HEAVY cornering. Even after the Yamaha Reps. at the demo rides warned all the test riders of the heavy cornering people were still blowing corners. They said it takes some getting used to it.
 
I lined up with a vector in the u.p. and I jumped him by 1 sled length out of the hole, then at about 65-70 I started to creep away from him, after about a mile I was probaly 25-30 sled lengths on him. Wasn't that impressed with the power of the vector!!
 
i own both, and am very impressed with the vector. it rides better, and feels like it has better corner to corner power. as for racing the two, haven't figured out how to ride 2 sleds at once! one other note. someone here said the R6 only has 90-95hp. that may be at rear wheel. i do know that my R6 has 121 at the crank. just like the vector that may only be putting around 60hp to the ground from the track.

my overall: i think yamaha did a great job with the vector.
 
ViperTom said:
Hebi,
The R6 motor would develop additional torque through reducing the RPM's from around 15000 at the crank to 8500 at the primary. Wouldn't that nearly double the torque?
Anyway, I'm sure someone at Yamaha must have kicked around the idea after the success of the R1 transplant and found it wouldn't work for one reason or another.
As for buying a Vector I would consider spending a little more and getting an 05' RX-1.
TONS of power and the new mono shock rear skid works great. I considered buying one but I couldn't get past the HEAVY cornering. Even after the Yamaha Reps. at the demo rides warned all the test riders of the heavy cornering people were still blowing corners. They said it takes some getting used to it.
Click to expand...
The HP really isnt important. You need an engine with a lot of torque off the line because of the drag from the track and the skis. I just dont see the R6's engine being a good fit for a snowmobile application.
Ive thought about spending the extra $ for an RX-1, but I think it would bea waste. I ride in the Minocqua area, and its a lot of narrow trails with hairpin corners. So, you really wouldnt be able to use the added power the RX has on the top end and the weight would hurt you through the corners. Thats why for me, the RS would be a better fit. Also, I dont like the fact that the monoshock doesnt have grease fittings. Ive only had to take out a rear suspension a couple of times and it wasnt fun getting it back in! Im also not crazy about the monoshock having needle bearings. I know some friends who had to replace those on their MX bikes and they cost some serious $$$! Im hoping that for '06 Yamaha will make service of that suspension easier, perhaps by adding grease fittings or just having the bearings sealed for life.
That demo ride story is funny. You put someone on a new, fast sled and they cant resist pushing it to (and sometimes beyond) its limits. That goes double when they dont have the pressure of buying that very sled afterwards!
It reminds me of the Ford Ranger ad where the couple test drives a Ranger and they end up taking it mudding and when they get back it completely covered in mud. The salesman says to them, "So, what do you think?" The lady kind laughs and says, "We'll take that one" and points to a perfectly clean (and un-abused) Ranger thats parked right next to them.
I cant wait untill they have the demo rides up here in Febuary. After riding that RX-1 Mountain yesterday Im anxious to see how a Vector compares. I didnt find it's steering to be all that heavy but its certainly not a sled that Id want to have for riding here in Minocqua. A Warrior or Rage would be OK, but a Mountain is just too long. Ive gotta admit though, it looked cool with the big long track with the 1.5" paddles and there wasnt ANY problem with spinning the track! :4STroke:
Hebi
 
guys R6 is way more than 120hp at the crank.

hebi, I don't see why low down torque is so important, when your clutches don't engage until the crank is spinning at 4000, if it doesn't engage till there, who cares what it's doing below that? completely irrelevant, and a well set-up sled is in the meat of it's power before you are 10' into the track.

so why is torque so important again?
 
Sorry guys, I was wrong. According to Yamaha's web page, the '05 R6 is 123 hp.
Torque IS important. Torque is what gets you going, not horsepower. Horsepower is nothing more than a reading of how long it takes you to move a certain load a certain distance (not sure about the specifics of that).
If you look at the dyno charts of the R6, you will find that down at 4,000 it makes very little of both hp and torque. Its a small engine so its needs to high revs to make power. For a motorcycle is great because you can use the clutch and the gears to keep the revs up high. For a sled, its not so good.
In a sled, you NEED torque to overcome the rolling resistence of the track and the drag of the skis.
Its like comparing 2 cars, one with a 4-cylinder the other with a V6. I will use a comparison that I know well: a Toyota Celica GT-S vs. a Toyota Camry V6. The Camry will pull away off the line because it has greater torque and then the 2 cars would be pretty equal after that. However, if you did a rolling start at a speed of 40 mph they would be pretty equal because the Celica would be able to start out in the higher revs and would be able to keep up.
Im not saying that the R6's engine wouldnt work in a sled, but it wouldnt work well. It would not be any lighter than the RX-1 and off the line it would be a slug. It would take that engine so long to get the revs up to where it would be in its powerband that any other sled of equal hp would be long gone by the time it got going.
I love high-revving, small piston engines as much as the next guy. However. Im also enough of a realist to know that you wont see an R6 engine in a sled.
I think you will see Yamaha go more to like what they have in watercraft where they have the same engine that is in various states of tune to achieve the desired power level for that given model. However, I think that in the sleds you will see levels of 100, 120 and 145 hp with a possible turbo RX-1 that will be around 160.
Hebi
 
hebi, you do have a valid point. the R6 is a great motorcycle, but the motor isn't something you would want in a sled. here is another mis-conception (sp) of many people out there. the R1 and the RX-1 are two completely different motors. granted they are both 4cyl and 1000cc, but look deep into it. any smart dealer or mechanic will tell you the same thing.

i was one of the biggest skeptics of the 3 cyl untill my fiance wanted to start riding. i have to say buying that sled (other then the weather this year) was a great move. it really is a great and well built machine. even 2 guys that i ride with that have F-7's are really suprised at how well that sled keeps up.

not everybody will agree on what sled is better then the other, that is why there are 4 manufacturers and each make a wide variety of sleds. there is no do-all sled (although the mach z is about the closest).

if you are looking for a great corner to corner trail sled, that has great handling, and is a blast to ride, hop on a vector. i will still keep my viper, just cause i love it, but you guys need to give these 4strokes a chance. that's what yamaha snowmobiling has come to!
 
Well I took the 4-stroke challenge at Eagle River on the 14th and rode both the RX-1 and Vector. My first impression of the Vector was "wow, what a weezer". It may have 120 hp, but it felt very sluggish off the line. Comparing it to the RX-1 it felt alot lighter, even though it isn't much lighter it felt like it was. Even though I thought it was slow, I still think it would be a perfect sled for my girlfriend. I was though, very surprized by the RX-1, I wanted to hate it, but didn't. Thoughts of selling the SRX came to mind, briefly!
 
The Vector just needs some clutching. After installing our Stage III clutch kit the Vector is quicker to 100 mph, but the Viper has just a tad more top end yet. The Vector is an impressive sled and runs good. Very torqy (is that a word?) and runs close to the RX-1 up to 50-60 mph! Fun sled either way! Great corner to corner speed!
 
HP = foot lbs. x rpm / 5252 or something close to that

they could make the R6 work, its just cheaper to make the Vector (lower peformace parts no reduction fewer warantee costs) and it gets better fuel economy.

I personaly am not crazy about 4 strokes with an odd number of cylinders, but I don't see myself buying a new sled anytime soon anyway.
 
Srxspec said:
The Vector just needs some clutching. After installing our Stage III clutch kit the Vector is quicker to 100 mph, but the Viper has just a tad more top end yet. The Vector is an impressive sled and runs good. Very torqy (is that a word?) and runs close to the RX-1 up to 50-60 mph! Fun sled either way! Great corner to corner speed!
Click to expand...
There was a bone stock Vector (Kevin @ Port Washington) at Munising this past weekend. It was keeping up just fine with clutched RX-1s (Master of Faster and his dad, Will) at some fun drags :cool:
 
viper/vector

finally got to ride my wifes vector in grand marais over the weekend...

i think it has plenty of power, it feels slow, but then u look at the speedo and its wow.... i think the "sluggishness" everyone complains about is actually smoothness, it doesnt have the loud braap of a 2 stroke, therefore your mind is saying im goin too slow.... ride it, pay attention to the speedo, and i think everyone should be impressed. not to mention the ride quality. i have ridden all kinds of yamis, and have swapped on friends revs, f's, zrs, zxs, zls,etc and none including my viper have near the ride quality as the vector.

as for anyone that is a naysayer, ride it, give it a chance, and you may be on one next year. my next ride will be a thumper, just hopefully yami will tweak it a little for the more aggressive riders, maybe like 140 hsp? taller bars? maybe a little more rider forward? you know the thumper bikes kick, well u know, why not in the snow....

as for head to head, i feel my viper is still faster, but not by much... if i clutched the wifes vector, i think i may be in trouble.

just my 2 cents....
 
RedlineViper said:
hebi, you do have a valid point. the R6 is a great motorcycle, but the motor isn't something you would want in a sled. here is another mis-conception (sp) of many people out there. the R1 and the RX-1 are two completely different motors. granted they are both 4cyl and 1000cc, but look deep into it. any smart dealer or mechanic will tell you the same thing.
Click to expand...

actually i THINK it's the rf motor in the rx, not the r1
 
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