Oil Cable lost motion?

[Backwoods M Max]

Hey all,
Just thinking about it the other night, but how much lost motion is there in the oil pump cable when its properly adjusted? It doesn't seem like there is any, unlike the throttle which has that little bit of slack. I was thinking about the new (powermadd) extended cable that I put on with my new bars this year. I still get 35mm of travel when I pull it apart, but the measurements are a little different. The stock cable has a 13mm deep cable end with a 22mm gap when adjusted. This cable has a 10mm deep socket and the adjusted length is 25mm. I'm still getting 35 mm travel when I pull the cable out and the pump arm stops on the cable holder, but I don't recall looking at the cable on the pump to see what kind of slack there is when the throttle is at idle. It doesn't appear that there is any. I'm thinking that it's tight, because there is that little bit of slack in the throttle cable so it's the oil pump return spring that is pulling the throttle back off the tors switch.

Has anyone ever looked at it in that much detail? I'm going to look at it in detail when I pull the carbs to clean and summerize the sled, but that won't be for a few weeks and I don't have the machine with me to go out and look at it.

 

[Backwoods M Max]

Does anyone have experience using the 8EK-26320-00-00 cable from a viper on a sled with tall bars? I recall that I ordered this cable once before and when it showed up the cable was a different part number and the same length. I don't have the cable in front of me to check it, but it could have been that I got a cable that was miss labeled when it was packaged. The word seems to be that this cable is 8" longer than stock, but not sure how it compares with a mountain max

 

[vmax4pjg]

is there oil in the airbox?

 

[Ding]

The throttle return spring is what closes the throttle slides, shaft and pulley. When the throttle lever is released and the throttle pulley hits the carb TORS switch (under the idle stop screw) it closes the switch and then quits moving. Additional play (1mm - 2mm) in the throttle cable is required for the TORS system to work properly. The TORS switch in the throttle block on the handlebar has a small spring in it that pushes the throttle lever pivot point outward when the throttle cable goes slack. This opens the TORS switch on the handlebars. One switch must be open and one closed, otherwise TORS is activated and the engine will not rev enough to engage the clutch. The spring on the oil pump is fairly light and when properly adjusted the oil pump arm will be part of the way through it's swing with the throttle lever completely released. Thus the oil cable will always be kept slightly taught. However, this spring has no play in activating or deactivating either of the TORS switches. It can however pull (lightly) the throttle lever on the handlebar against the stop. It is a significantly lighter force then the throttle spring of course.

As far as the oil pump adjustment - what really matters is where the arm is positioned when the throttle lever on the handlebar is fully depressed. The gap is simply an easy way that Yamaha came up with measuring it. Basically you are checking how much cable travel is left before full open when the throttle lever is at the idle position. I have found that the easiest place to measure this on 2 cable throttle levers with aftermarket cables is at the throttle block. Just measure how much play the cable housing has in it at the idle position. You will be swinging the oil pump arm to full open when you measure this. For peace of mind I check for play at WOT as well.

 

[Backwoods M Max]

Nope. Just thinking back to this year and wanting to make sure that its set right or try to find something else. Obviously I'm in the ballpark for being adjusted right, it just sucks yamaha doesn't use a ful throttle witness mark on the oil pimps on the triples

 

[Devilin AblueDress!]

Dont know about the viper cable but with aftermarket your left to monitor oil/fuel consumption. I would shoot for WAY to much oil and back it down to where you want it to be.

 

[snowdad4]

i have used the 03 mtn viper cables on all my riser projects and they are considerably longer than the originals off the 2000 and up mtn maxes.

how much i couldnt tell you, i would have to measure as well. i do have one laying around(not for sale) if you want to compare lengths.

 

[Ding]

it just sucks yamaha doesn't use a ful throttle witness mark on the oil pimps on the triples

You can't see the oil pump without taking things apart. Just remember that the Yamaha measurement is simply an easier way to accomplish the same thing, because they covered the oil pump with things like the motor mount, etc.

Just measure oil pump cable housing play at WOT for assurance.

In fact, I have done Rotax engines by measuring the play in cable housing. Makes it so you don't have to take stuff apart. You do have to measure it once the spec'd way of course to get the appropriate measurement of course.

 

[Backwoods M Max]

i have used the 03 mtn viper cables on all my riser projects and they are considerably longer than the originals off the 2000 and up mtn maxes.

how much i couldnt tell you, i would have to measure as well. i do have one laying around(not for sale) if you want to compare lengths.

If you don't mind measuring the length of the outer jacket I will compare it to what I took off and the length of the new one that was suppose to be longer. I will also post the part number on the jacket when I get a chance.

An aftermarket throttle cable I don't mind but if I can track down one of these viper mountain cables that are longer I would rather have a yamaha cable in there.

What kind of bars did you use the cable on? I have a t-post adapter about 6" of rider (adjustable) and 3.5" rise bars. It would be great if the yamaha cable would work.

 

[Backwoods M Max]

You can't see the oil pump without taking things apart. Just remember that the Yamaha measurement is simply an easier way to accomplish the same thing, because they covered the oil pump with things like the motor mount, etc.

Just measure oil pump cable housing play at WOT for assurance.

In fact, I have done Rotax engines by measuring the play in cable housing. Makes it so you don't have to take stuff apart. You do have to measure it once the spec'd way of course to get the appropriate measurement of course.

What I can't see right now but I will check when I pull things apart for carb cleaning is how far off the stop the oil pump lever is at no throttle. Where is it suppose to be at idle? I can see the head of the pump lever come up to within a few mm of touching the end of the cable housing at full throttle. I believe the lever touches the cable housing before its stopping on its own. If it is then that measurement of 22mm is irreverent now because the travel of the lever is less and the pump lever must meant to be held off the stop a certain amount even at idle.

 

[snowdad4]

about 38", housing only, with the adjuster sleeve at zero, not including the mounting portion at the oil pump end. add another 3/4" or better here. your pre-fix is incorrect in your second post. 8EK is the short track, 8EN is the mtn. same part numbers less pre-fix. could be why yours came up short.

the viper mtn stock bars are nearly 4" taller than the mtn max bars. on the several i have done adding these taller bars and up to 4" risers, i have never came up short with the 8EN cables. throttle and oil. sometimes routing is important.

one of the main difference between the mtn viper and mtn max on the throttle cable is the viper one is a straight cable while the mtn max has a distinct 90* bend at the carb rack. not sure when they changed that, but my 01 mtn max still had the 90.

 

[Backwoods M Max]

As far as the oil pump adjustment - what really matters is where the arm is positioned when the throttle lever on the handlebar is fully depressed. The gap is simply an easy way that Yamaha came up with measuring it. Basically you are checking how much cable travel is left before full open when the throttle lever is at the idle position. I have found that the easiest place to measure this on 2 cable throttle levers with aftermarket cables is at the throttle block. Just measure how much play the cable housing has in it at the idle position. You will be swinging the oil pump arm to full open when you measure this. For peace of mind I check for play at WOT as well.

So to measure it via the throttle block, would you take off the spring clip and pull the cable housing out and measure the gap there? Would the 22mm still apply, or would you want to measure the depth of the cable socket and subtract it from 35 to get the proper gap? If that's the case I'll keep the cable in there now and try adjusting it that way.

My big unknown is that when the pump is at full open, does the lever have an internal stop or does it just keep going until it comes up against the cable end? If that's the case then the powermadd cable is wrong because I believe the threaded end that extends beyond the nut holding it in the bracket is longer than the yamaha one. So when you pull it up tight to measure gap, the pump does not have enough travel.

When I put the cable on, there were 2 nuts on the oil pump end. One was up against the cable end then the other one was to tighten it together. When I put it on the first time I noticed that the pump arm was like half way through its stroke. Maybe it was suppose to be that way, but it just seemed wrong to me. I put 128 miles on the sled this year with the new cable. I did notice that on my first ride the cable end had popped out of the adjuster under the rubber boot. It was getting more oil sooner and the plugs were all oil soaked when I checked them after that ride. It made me think that taking that nut off was the right thing to do since the pump was dumping full oil at idle and it would smoke out the yard.

 

[Backwoods M Max]

about 38", housing only, with the adjuster sleeve at zero, not including the mounting portion at the oil pump end. add another 3/4" or better here. your pre-fix is incorrect in your second post. 8EK is the short track, 8EN is the mtn. same part numbers less pre-fix. could be why yours came up short.

the viper mtn stock bars are nearly 4" taller than the mtn max bars. on the several i have done adding these taller bars and up to 4" risers, i have never came up short with the 8EN cables. throttle and oil. sometimes routing is important.

one of the main difference between the mtn viper and mtn max on the throttle cable is the viper one is a straight cable while the mtn max has a distinct 90* bend at the carb rack. not sure when they changed that, but my 01 mtn max still had the 90.

So the part number for the viper mountain oil cable is 8EN-26320-00-00

Powermadd lists the yamaha 2-stroke cable set as being 10" longer than stock, does anyone know the length of the mountain max oil cable to compare to the viper cable? The cables I have now actually ended up being too long. I have adjustable risers that are 9" fully extended and I started with them tall and have shortened them to about 6" and found the sweet spot.

 

[norwegian]

I have the Viper Mountain oil cable on my 01MM with a 3,5'' powermadd riser, works great

 

[Backwoods M Max]

I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and order a set of 03 viper mountain cables. I am running about 6" riser on a t-post then bars with 3.5" rise. There is hardly any set back off the t-post unlike a flat riser block. I'll see how these new cables work, I would like to be back to stock on the oil cable and eliminate any risk there.

 

[YamaChris]

I have viper cables with a 5.5 rise from stock 98 Vmax. There is extra length but works good.

 

[Backwoods M Max]

Thanks for all the positive feedback from everyone that is running these cables. I must have not researched enough when I ordered the cables before and ended up ordering viper trail cables which end up being the same length as the mountain max. The throttle cable was connectable but very tight and the oil cable was the same length.

YamaChris my bars look to be about as high as yours although a different configuration. I will try and post a picture of them later.

I pulled the trigger and ordered a 8EN-26311 Throttle cable and a 8EN-26320 oil cable from world of powersports. Their the shop that I ordered the last cables from. Not their fault, clearly mine since I didn't know it had to be specifically from an 03 mountain viper. I will check the part number on the last set of cables I got, and make sure that it matches on this set. Come hell or high water I will find a way to get a set of these. Messing around with aftermarket cables is not something I want to chance for the long run, especially since I'm putting big money into a track swap and stretch this summer. I only put 128 miles on the sled with the current cable, and while I feel like I was in the ballpark for being adjusted right and may have dodged a bullet, I don't want to take that chance again.

I should be able to run the viper cable over the top of the bars and down the front of the risers. Even if the viper oil cable at 38" long ends up being a little shorter than the powermadd cable, it should end up being more than enough.