I'm stumped and need the direction of my fellow Yamaha tuners - second real season with my beloved 700SXR - drained fuel and put a little oil in each cylinder last year - purchased two new donuts to tighten the exhaust (backfired and puked oil some last season). Also noticed a sketchy oil pump cable - so did my annual triple carb cleaning noticed that the previous owner had jetted wrong so purchased the factory mains and spent a good day tearing down, cleaning carbs, replacing the oil pump cable, etc. BTW - the bracket arm was bent so got that back together as well. All excited today for the season start up - try to turn the damn thing over and about give my self a rotator cuff injury - acted like it was almost seized. Pulled plugs and raw blue oil on them -pulled the exhaust and brand new oil leaking all over the place. How is it that the crankcase is full of expensive unburned two cycle oil - so much so that it's draining out of the exhaust manifold? With the oil it feels like it has too much back pressure and compression (I think...) This is crazy... Do not let me give up on her! The 82 enticer and 81 ss440 are begging me to dump the triple. Help - please
Anything gentlemen - pulled over repeatedly more fresh blue oil leaking out the manifold - are the check valves on the oil lines going to the case bad and how do I get access to them? is the pump bad? how do I get the oil out. The thing acts hydrolocked with the plugs in and an attempted start - ugh -
Backwoods M Max
New member
There should be some case drains so you can get the oil out of the bottom end. Did you store it with the oil tank full? And is it significantly lower now? If you poured straight 2-stroke oil down the holes, how much and did you turn it over afterwards? If you just poured it in and left it, there could have been an open exhaust port and the oil goes straight out. If the oil tank is empty, you could have gravity drained oil through the pump and into the bottom end but when that happens u normally find carbs full of oil. I'm wondering if the pump shaft is junk, and the oil leaked out past the seal and into the pump drive cavity and filled the bottom end from there.
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
Based on the "bent pump arm" I suspect the issue is in your oil pump. You said "got that all back together"....Did you bend arm back? or replace pump/arm?
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
"If the oil tank is empty, you could have gravity drained oil through the pump and into the bottom end but when that happens u normally find carbs full of oil. I'm wondering if the pump shaft is junk, and the oil leaked out past the seal and into the pump drive cavity and filled the bottom end from there.[/QUOTE]
He has already cleaned carbs and no mention of oil in carbs.....Also could have to have ben the direct oiling points on the crank bearings.
He has already cleaned carbs and no mention of oil in carbs.....Also could have to have ben the direct oiling points on the crank bearings.
Thanks guys - the pump arm appears fine - the bracket on the pump that holds the oil cable was wankled so I got that bent back where it should be. I've also marked the oil in the tank so I can check in the morning to see if it is still draining. What about the check valves in the lines that got from the pump to the lower case - could they be the culprit and is there any way to test. I've still got to find a way to get the oil out of there - slow drip of blue coming from manifold and into the belly. Any strategies would be appreciated - also could use your wisdom on best way to swap the pump and replace the lines. Thnak for continuing to help me walk thru this...
BTW - carbs looked pretty good in the initial cleaning - a little oil in the air box, but not crazy - bowls has some oil residue, but not a ton - whole thing making me crazy
how I would get the oil out is to remove the carbs, then the reed assemblies, place each cylinder at TDC and use a small line on a mity vac and suck out the oil in each cylinder. youll be able to sticjk it all the way to bottom of case.
There is no case drain.
There is no case drain.
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
The check valves in the lines are to stop any back flow from case to pump, in order for them to work as they should they need to flow from pump to case so theres not really anything you can do there. At this point I would pull the pump off and see what you have going on. For as much as a pump costs I think I would just change it and be done. The pump is supposed to stop "gravity" feeding. whether its threw the pump shaft or just flowing threw pump to case lines. Marking the tank is a good idea but you may have to wait an awful long time to see it move.
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
Just had an afterthought. Any chance this "winkled" bracket was holding the pump arm mid stroke? Any body know if a pump mid stroke left all summer would let a couple quarts of oil sneak by?
Figured there was no drain in the case - damn - how about access to the check valves in the oil lines to the case - would you loosen/remove the motor mounts and turn the entire engine to access everything
That's a great point - the pump arm is off the stop at idle - the cable does not allow it to go all the way to the minimum stop on the arm - is the arm supposed to swing the entire stroke from idle stop to wot stop - seems to me that the cable hold the arm about 1/3 of the way through the stroke when attached and at idle
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
They run along the back side of the motor and it seems one may run under. I would use previous mentioned vacuum and a smaller hose (gas line etc) may take some jerry rigging to get vac hose to smaller line (duct tape?) Maybe vac it a couple times to let more pool in bottom of cases. Removing motor mounts and moving motor is a lot of work. Vac should get enough out to start it and let the smoke show roll! I picked up a SRX that had a bunch of sand and crap in the tank, I used a shop vac and a 2ft piece of 1/2 PVC to vac out bottom of tank after I let gas evaporate, wrapping one hand around joint of PVC and vac hose to seal it. I don't see any reason you need to check the check valves......they did just what their supposed to do....let oil flow to case.
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
At idle your supposed to have something like 2mm of slack in the oil cable........if its at 1/3 of the way up your definitely over oiling it when running, if it played into leak I don't know for sure. Just a theory......
ok - next step is to grab a new 'used' oil pump and swap it out - looks like a real pia to get to - anybody ever done it - access to the lines looks more difficult than the getting to the bolts on the pump. Btw - oil cable is supposed to run down vertically to the left of the mag side carb or underneath the mag side carb - neither run of the cable looks real conducive to not straining the cable
As for the bent cable mount arm....i remember adding a cheezy power madd cable extension to my Viper when I added a bar riser. The extension wouldnt alow me to adjust the oil pump cable low enough to get my 22mm slack, so I bent the bracket to make it possible. This may have been a similar issue for the previous owner of your sled, therfore, your pump being partially held open may be allowing the oul to bleed through while sitting for a period of time.
First thing Id check, is the oil cable setting to be sure its where it should be. If its not, find out whats holding the pump arm open and not allowing it to shut off completely.
First thing Id check, is the oil cable setting to be sure its where it should be. If its not, find out whats holding the pump arm open and not allowing it to shut off completely.
Ok - I'll disassemble again - and start from scratch - in the mean time I'll try to locate a used oil pump without a 'wankled' bent cable arm - hard to believe that moving the bracket a bit can make such a difference on the cable adjustment and lead to such a headache. Still shocked that the thing sort of locked up when I tried to start it - man I hope I did not hurt a piston or rod on this redhead. Any ideas on how best to remove the pump and get the necessary access to the lines? Stay with me gentlemen...
MrViper probably had the most efective way to remove the oil. I doubt u did any damage since the oil was in the case, although you may check your reed valves ti be sure the back pressure didnt crack them, but I doubt any rod or piston damage. Be sure to keep the plugs out while turning it over, and only turn it over slowly until you suck out a majority of the oil
a mity vac isnt a 'shop vac"...lol, you use to suck out the dirt on your car, its for bleeding brakes,but it will also remove unwanted fluid from a situation like yours. Find somene who works on cars, they will have one. This is what it looks like. just stick the little hose down into the crankcase, and it will suck the oil into the little canister to empty out, works fast on this stuff.
Oil is thick and youll ruin your standard shop vac doing this, or make 1 heck of a big mess of it.
Oil is thick and youll ruin your standard shop vac doing this, or make 1 heck of a big mess of it.
Attachments
First - you guys are the best for the help - some more sleuthing - yanked it over about 2 dozen times with no plugs in to see where oil was coming from - slow stream coming from middle exhaust port and pto exhaust port, dry from the mag port. Enough oil to catch a couple of capfuls from a spare wd40 cap (the small ones). If I look thru the spark plug holes, those two pistons are oiled with blue 2 cycle. Clearly this is not right - correct. We're not supposed to have excess oil leaking down exhaust ports of the y pipe - just want to be sure. How about I purchase a primer bulb and attach a couple of lines and pull out the oil that way via the back side of the reeds. btw - is pulling it over exacerbating my problem by having the oil pump dump more into the case - checking on the price and availability of a mity vac now