New Track Trouble

YamaSmith700 said:
I just pulled the skid out of the track to really go over it with a fine tooth comb. Everytime I adjusted the track I make sure to torque axle 54ftlb. The nut is always tight when I go to readjust the tension. Even tried torquin the adjusters after torquing the axle in case it loosened up on me didn't make any difference. measuring from the little mark on the hyfax I have 3/16" left on the low end and full or 3/8 on the thick end this is the amount of wear in just 300 miles.

I thought I was going to have to gear down for the extension pulling a longer, heavier track with more lug. Glad I didn't this sled rev's out like crazy. Wack the throttle and its pulling 9k rpm until I let go, I think i even saw 9200 rpm on one longer pull today. It actually concerns me a little bit top speed is 102 indicated which is plenty don't get me wrong but I can only imagine what it'd do If I could keep the rpms in the peak of the powerband. Trail riding just cruising around 45-55mph its hard to keep the rpms below 7k. The gears are stock 22-38, belt is oem yamaha tensioned within spec. The helix on the secondary is in the 6 hole. Both primary and secondary springs are stock I believe(black with white dot) not sure about weight rivets etc.
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Doesn't sound like your Clutching is dialled in right.
 
Completely stock motor, stock single pipe exhaust, clutching, gearing for a 121" 2002 Viper of 22-38 with 9 tooth drivers, and it overpulls the target rpm of 8600 by 400 rpm AFTER it has been stretched to a 144 and everything else is still stock?
No.
What is your history with this sled? It can't be performing very well. Were there previous owner(s)? Have you opened the chain case and counted teeth to know for sure, and are you sure it is the stock 9 tooth drivers and wasn't changed to 8 tooth?
By comparison, my 144" Viper has 8 tooth drivers and 21-40 gearing for a ratio of 2.14 to 1. Yours if stock would only be a 1.73 to 1 ratio.

As for the clutching, it should have a yellow-white-yellow primary spring and a red secondary spring if it is stock. Black with a white dot is not stock? I really think some things have been changed on this sled before you got it.

As for the track ratcheting all the time, after inspecting it closely and sure nothing is coming loose, then I'd throw the hang a weight from the track BS out and just tighten it a turn on each side from where it's currently at, ride it, adjust, ride it, etc. etc like I explained above. It is absolutely the best way to get the track to the perfect tightness without ratcheting or being too tight and stealing HP.

For the bad hyfax wear, was the suspension relocated in the skid when the rail extensions were added? Usually the suspension is moved back when a sled gets stretched to a longer track, the geometry may be your issue there. May also be the ratcheting issue?
 
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Vincent, as a comparison to his sled, are you positive you have 22-39 gearing? In the Tech pages for 2000 it shows two Venture 700's. One has 22-39 gearing and the other one has 20-39 gearing. I'd assume the 20-39 gearing one is the factory 136" long track and the 22-39 is the short track?
The 1.95 to 1 ratio makes much more sense on a 136" than a 1.77 to 1 ratio.
 
mod-it said:
Completely stock motor, stock single pipe exhaust, clutching, gearing for a 121" 2002 Viper of 22-38 with 9 tooth drivers, and it overpulls the target rpm of 8600 by 400 rpm AFTER it has been stretched to a 144 and everything else is still stock?
No.
What is your history with this sled? It can't be performing very well. Were there previous owner(s)? Have you opened the chain case and counted teeth to know for sure, and are you sure it is the stock 9 tooth drivers and wasn't changed to 8 tooth?
By comparison, my 144" Viper has 8 tooth drivers and 21-40 gearing for a ratio of 2.14 to 1. Yours if stock would only be a 1.73 to 1 ratio.

As for the clutching, it should have a yellow-white-yellow primary spring and a red secondary spring if it is stock. Black with a white dot is not stock? I really think some things have been changed on this sled before you got it.

As for the track ratcheting all the time, after inspecting it closely and sure nothing is coming loose, then I'd throw the hang a weight from the track BS out and just tighten it a turn on each side from where it's currently at, ride it, adjust, ride it, etc. etc like I explained above. It is absolutely the best way to get the track to the perfect tightness without ratcheting or being too tight and stealing HP.

For the bad hyfax wear, was the suspension relocated in the skid when the rail extensions were added? Usually the suspension is moved back when a sled gets stretched to a longer track, the geometry may be your issue there. May also be the ratcheting issue?
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I bought the sled used at the start of the season. I have disassembled the chain case replaced all the drive bearings and seals. I did actually count the teeth on both gears and it is 22-38. I have inspected the drivers (9t) there's no unusual wear or signs of misalignment. Somebody must have switched out the primary and secondary clutch springs for something stiffer. Not sure why anyone would need to on a stock pipe/engine with a 121" I regret not taking the time to get to know the sled in stock length form so I would have had a baseline to compare to you know, before and after the extension.

I think my hyfax are wearing faster than the track is stretching which might be contributing to the slack after tightening. I do 3/4 to a full turning after the ratcheting starts then check my alignment. Now the whole "ratcheting" is really an assumption. I have no way to prove with my own eyes that the drivers are slipping in the track but when I load the motor and hear that distinct thud and seeing how the track seems to have loosened so many times that is my suspicion. Suspension is in the std. location as far as I can tell, theres no extra holes. Maybe I should have relocated it? This probably has no effect on the hyfax wear but I just stiffened up the front shocks, backed off on the preload in the front skid shock in hopes that it would take some pressure off the front of the hyfax.
 
mod-it said:
Vincent, as a comparison to his sled, are you positive you have 22-39 gearing? In the Tech pages for 2000 it shows two Venture 700's. One has 22-39 gearing and the other one has 20-39 gearing. I'd assume the 20-39 gearing one is the factory 136" long track and the 22-39 is the short track?
The 1.95 to 1 ratio makes much more sense on a 136" than a 1.77 to 1 ratio.
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My sled factory stock is 22/39 as the tech pages indicate. The 20/39 gearing is for the 600 triples. Both me and my brother own 700 and 600 triple Ventures. Both built up from SCRATCH . So you can consider me to be well versed on the subject.
 
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YamaSmith700 said:
I can't really say that the rail extension is what caused the rapid hyfax wear. I didn't ride it long enough in stock form to compare. If I look at the original hyfax from the previous owner there is a more even spread of wear vs mine where it is more focused in one spot. Also at the same time I extended the rails I added a good amount of preload to the front shock, backed off on the limiter straps and set the full rate adjuster on rear shock to softest setting. I cant believe that would have been a cause either as that should increase weight transfer toward the rear under power and the rear half of the hyfax show little to no wear.
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Well preload and limiters out will cause the center of the sled (think of front middle and rear shocks as 3 pivot points) to push out.
 
Vincent said:
My sled factory stock is 22/39 as the tech pages indicate. The 20/39 gearing is for the 600 triples. Both me and my brother own 700 and 600 triple Ventures. Both built up from SCRATCH . So you can consider me to be well versed on the subject.
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Had to ask Vincent, I figured you knew what you had from your posts I read. Hope I didn't offend.
Do you have 8 tooth (2 to 1 ratio) or 9 tooth drivers (1.77 to 1 ratio)? I'm really surprised at the ratio for a 136" if it has 9 tooth drivers, I thought it would need lower gearing.
 
YamaSmith700 said:
I bought the sled used at the start of the season. I have disassembled the chain case replaced all the drive bearings and seals. I did actually count the teeth on both gears and it is 22-38. I have inspected the drivers (9t) there's no unusual wear or signs of misalignment. Somebody must have switched out the primary and secondary clutch springs for something stiffer. Not sure why anyone would need to on a stock pipe/engine with a 121" I regret not taking the time to get to know the sled in stock length form so I would have had a baseline to compare to you know, before and after the extension.

I think my hyfax are wearing faster than the track is stretching which might be contributing to the slack after tightening. I do 3/4 to a full turning after the ratcheting starts then check my alignment. Now the whole "ratcheting" is really an assumption. I have no way to prove with my own eyes that the drivers are slipping in the track but when I load the motor and hear that distinct thud and seeing how the track seems to have loosened so many times that is my suspicion. Suspension is in the std. location as far as I can tell, theres no extra holes. Maybe I should have relocated it? This probably has no effect on the hyfax wear but I just stiffened up the front shocks, backed off on the preload in the front skid shock in hopes that it would take some pressure off the front of the hyfax.
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I'm definitely stumped on how it overturns the rpm's after going to a longer track without a gearing change, unless it was REALLY overturning the rpm's with the 121 due to the previous owner's clutching changes.
Lots of people modify clutching on an otherwise stock machine to get better performance according to their riding, such as lake, trail corner to corner, etc. Maybe they just flat had it way off on hitting peak rpm's. Perhaps you'll be fine to just dial in the peak rpms and see how she performs if it is overturning right now, but I'd really think acceleration would be poor with too tall of gearing.

Ratcheting is pretty horrible sounding/feeling when it happens. It is a very fast paced clunking/thudding (you mentioned a distinct thud...ratcheting is almost always several thuds in rapid succession), it is fairly loud and centered under the sled yet the vibration/clunking can be felt throughout the entire sled. Just one ratchet very infrequently wouldn't worry me much, it is when there are 4 or more during one occurrence of it.

I'm not much of a suspension guy, but have read numerous times that it is best to move the suspension back when extending the track. I really do believe it is a lot of the hyfax wear issue and is centering too much weight right after the front bend of the rails.
 
mod-it said:
Had to ask Vincent, I figured you knew what you had from your posts I read. Hope I didn't offend.
Do you have 8 tooth (2 to 1 ratio) or 9 tooth drivers (1.77 to 1 ratio)? I'm really surprised at the ratio for a 136" if it has 9 tooth drivers, I thought it would need lower gearing.
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It's stock 9 tooth driver. Thus 1.77:1

Others have stated this "over geared" comment before, witch doesn't reflect reality at all. My 700 doesn't give a shit about my Cobra track.. My sled is factory designed as a two up riding 136" chassis. Simply going from 0.75 to 1.35 lugs is nothing to a 700 triple.
 
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i had slide wear on my rx war in the same place. i fixed it by sucking up the limiters 1/2" tighter and added the marginal snow wheel kit. got the slides on that sled to last over 5000 km per set and the sled still transfered well on and off trail.
 
Vincent said:
It's stock 9 tooth driver. Thus 1.77:1

Others have stated this "over geared" comment before, witch doesn't reflect reality at all. My 700 doesn't give a shit about my Cobra track.. My sled is factory designed as a two up riding 136" chassis. Simply going from 0.75 to 1.35 lugs is nothing to a 700 triple.
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That factory gearing for a 2-up 136" does surprise me a bit. By comparison my 144 Viper is at 2.14 to1 ratio...and I keep considering dropping it a bit more.
I guess I'm too accustomed to thinking about having some good torque for track speed under load.
 
I ordered a new torsion spring for the secondary clutch along with some new shoes. If I can get my hands on a cheap puller I'd like to take both cltuches apart to clean and inspect thoroughly. Perhaps what I'm hearing is the clutch sticking and being forced open under load. Tightening the track makes the noise go away so that leads me to believe it's the notorious "ratchet". If it were a chain slipping the noise should be present regardless of track tension.

Also ordered a plastic bushing and washer that was missing from the front of the skid where it bolts to the tunnel. The marginal snow wheel kit looks like a good idea but can you mount it anywhere or does it only go in the rear of the skid like the pictures show, if so not sure that would do me much good. A larger set of wheels in the front would help if I could find some that fit the oem bushing. With new hyfax and sled sitting flat on ground I can still spin the wheels with little friction so that tells me those wheel aren't taking much pressure of the hyfax at the front.
 
A couple of bucks said:
I did notice YamaSmith that in the last photo in post 22 that your straps look to be let out alllllllll the way.
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Yeah Ive adjusted it back to stock specs hopefully that helps. Also Noticed while looking around for a nut I dropped that two of the engine mounting bolts are missing creating a lot of movement under load might very well be the cause of the noise im hearing that I thought was track ratcheting.
 
Then, you may have over tightened the track. Check the brackets just behind the adjusters net to see if the have caved in any.
 
A couple of bucks said:
Did ya get it???
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Clutching is much more reasonable, engine is settling in right in the meat of the powerband around 8200-8500. Not sure if it was the engine mounting bracket missing bolts, the new secondary clutch spring & shoes I installed, or some combination. Did 120mi. today all trail occasionally dipping into the powder to cool things down as it was 45*F this afternoon. Still burning up hyfax like its injector oil but the wear is more spread out. I think sucking up the limiter strap helped but not a cure-all. Everybody is quick to recommend scratchers for extra lube but then why does my 98' polaris trail touring that was following me today have little to no slide wear?
 
A couple of bucks said:
Check the clips on the track. 1 lousy clip that's gouged up will grind your hyfax away.
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The only rough surface on the clips is where the previous hyfax melted and stuck to the trailing edge of each clip. It's tough to scrape off and I figured it wouldn't hurt the new hyfax.
 
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