Trouble with old Phazer - Questions

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6spdtaco

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I've got a Phazer 84-85ish. Non electric start. My first question is: does anyone have a resource for a wiring diagram for a NON electric start phazer? All diagrams I've been able to find are for the electric start version.
SPECIFICALLY a diagram that has a 2 wire main switch, not the 6 pole version.

After that, I have a ton more questions...this sled is a major pile.Compress_20221222_063111_1646.jpg
 
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Sled was in pieces when I got it. Having trouble getting it to run. It will start and idle(sounds like 1 cylinder). Looks like TORS was missing/bypassed. I'm trying to get a grasp on the wiring of the sled to help figure out why it won't run above a very rough idle.

Carbs rebuilt (proper plug placement), new fuel pump and lines, drained and cleaned tank, new spark plugs(gaped per specs). Spark to both cylinders, compression 125 on both cylinders. Chokes moves freely and adjusted properly.

Not sure what else it could be other than some electrical thing.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
you might have to bypass the tors up at the bars as well as down by the carbs. i have seen one that the upper switch on the throttle failed and it still did stupid stuff even with it by passed at the carbs.

you can also try adding a ground from engine to chassis as i have done that to other old sleds to fix driveability issues.
 
I have downloaded several Yamaha service manuals for my 91-92 Phazers and Ventures from Totallyamaha. The 84-89 Phazer manuals may be available here as well and should have the wiring diagrams. Worth checking. The cost to register to TY is less than the price if a manual and well worth it in my opinion. The following wiring diagram and legend for the 1990 Phazer may be similar to what you have if there is a TORS system on the sled. If your sled has a tether switch the 84-85 diagram may be what you need.
 

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Maim said:
you might have to bypass the tors up at the bars as well as down by the carbs. i have seen one that the upper switch on the throttle failed and it still did stupid stuff even with it by passed at the carbs.

you can also try adding a ground from engine to chassis as i have done that to other old sleds to fix driveability issues.
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I don't see an TORS wiring up at the bar. Just the B, B/W wires to the stop switch. Should there be additional wiring for TORS? I will look closer at the ground wiring. The whole sled has pretty old/corroded wiring.

I read somewhere else that someone recommended plicing in a ground to the TORS bypass loop at the carbs. Do you think concept that has any merit?

NorthofSixty said:
I have downloaded several Yamaha service manuals for my 91-92 Phazers and Ventures from Totallyamaha. The 84-89 Phazer manuals may be available here as well and should have the wiring diagrams. Worth checking. The cost to register to TY is less than the price if a manual and well worth it in my opinion. The following wiring diagram and legend for the 1990 Phazer may be similar to what you have if there is a TORS system on the sled. If your sled has a tether switch the 84-85 diagram may be what you need.
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Thanks for the diagrams. That is what I was looking for. No tether switch, but keyed ground is working.
 
looking at the kill switch, that is a tors style throttle block. there should be 4 wires to it. i will have to look at the one in my garage to get the wire colours as it is all apart.
 
6spdtaco said:
I don't see an TORS wiring up at the bar. Just the B, B/W wires to the stop switch. Should there be additional wiring for TORS? I will look closer at the ground wiring. The whole sled has pretty old/corroded wiring.

I read somewhere else that someone recommended plicing in a ground to the TORS bypass loop at the carbs. Do you think concept that has any merit?


Thanks for the diagrams. That is what I was looking for. No tether switch, but keyed ground is working.
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If it has a TORS system there will be a pair if BY-B wires coming up from the wiring harness to the mag side carb. To temporarily bypass the TORS system you simple unplug the carb wires and plug the BY-B harness wires together. The carb and throttle switches need to be cleaned and the throttle free play has to be properly set for the engine to start and run properly without cutting out. I do not recommend riding the sled without the TORS system or a tether switch working.
 
TORS wouldn't have any effect on it only idling on one cylinder.
Make sure the pilot jet is good.
Make sure the reeds are good.
One often over looked problem on these as far as idle quality is carb sync. Full throttle sync is irrelevant. Be sure that idle sync is as close as you can get it. You want the butter flies to be closing as accurately as possible.(in sync with each other)
 
When you cleaned the carbs did you make sure the small bypass hole between the main jet tower and the slow jet tower is clear. It is located just above the top of the main jet and is the fuel supply to the idle/slow jet circuit.
 
So I added a ground wire to the TORS wires that are bypassed at the CDI. Now the sled starts, idles, and revs(it wouldn't rev before). So it looks like I have the TORS issue solved(temporarily).

NOW, I seem to only be running on one cylinder(clutch side). I let the engine warm up and only one cylinder got hot. Pulled plugs and sure enough, the right side plug had no signs of combustion.

I put a test light on both cylinders are there is spark to both. I just rebuilt the carbs(twice) and double checked everything related to them. There does seem to be fuel flowing through the intake manifold. When I pulled the air chamber tube off I can see fuel in the bottom.

Any idea what could be the issue?
 
6spdtaco said:
So I added a ground wire to the TORS wires that are bypassed at the CDI. Now the sled starts, idles, and revs(it wouldn't rev before). So it looks like I have the TORS issue solved(temporarily).

NOW, I seem to only be running on one cylinder(clutch side). I let the engine warm up and only one cylinder got hot. Pulled plugs and sure enough, the right side plug had no signs of combustion.

I put a test light on both cylinders are there is spark to both. I just rebuilt the carbs(twice) and double checked everything related to them. There does seem to be fuel flowing through the intake manifold. When I pulled the air chamber tube off I can see fuel in the bottom.

Any idea what could be the issue?
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Have you done a leakdown or compression test on that cylinder?
 
Make sure the rubber bungs are in the correct position in the bottom of the carbs.
Also, what are the fuel screws on top of the carb set at?
Did you check butterfly sync with the carbs off, throttle at idle position?
 
74Nitro said:
Make sure the rubber bungs are in the correct position in the bottom of the carbs.
Also, what are the fuel screws on top of the carb set at?
Did you check butterfly sync with the carbs off, throttle at idle position?
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Carbs are synced, plugs are over center and pilot. Screws at 1.5 turns out
 
Something i ran into years ago.

Pull out the pilot screws. Take a real close look at the taper on the screw. If it is damaged or has a grove on the taper? You will never get it to idle or pickup fuel properly. New pilot screws or "fuel screws i call them" will make one hell of a difference.

In severe cases sometimes the carb body seat is damaged from turning the fuel screws in to bottom...to count turns out. Good Luck.
 
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