84 phazer problem

8

84phaser

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Mar 27, 2005
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18
I have a 84 phazer se, I have had numerous shops look at it to find out the why it falls on it face @ 5000rpm. Carbs have been cleaned and rechecked by 3 shops, tried NEW cdi box, coil, has new stator coils, checked reeds, voltage reg / rectifier, compression is great and even. runs at idel on one pull. From reading posts on this site have checked clutch for dirt and crud. have checked exhaust for blockage. drawing at straws now. Even at no load (on a stand) won't go much over 5000rpms. 6000rpms without belt. The sled has always been stored inside the 8 years or more I have owned, had about 3000 mi when I purchased now has 6700 mi on sled. I would really like to solve this problem, if anyone know or has had similar problem please contact me.
Thanks
84phazer
 
Did you check your fuel line back to the tank?
Is there a hole in your pickup line in the tank?
Did you check your fuel pump?
Is there a mouse in your air box?
 
tried it

The sled is at a shop currently all fuel lines have been changed. The air box has been checked. Even run with it off, made no difference. I wish it was some thing like that.
Nice thought though.
 
Even the shop the sled its at is stumped by this. He does not want to return the sled because he does not like to be beat by anything. Will not conceed defeat. He will take all advice thats how I ended up here. Someone has to have experienced similar?
 
plug gap? are you positive the exhaust is ok? stock can on it? fuel pump? drain the cases? did it do it suddenly or after even the slightest change (like repacking the can!).
 
Thanks for the reply,
have tried new plugs. Also with, without, with different exhausts. Shop with machine has a couple of phazers swapped some parts to just experiment. I originally sent the machine in for carb cleaning, never had issue before, slight bog in bottom end like dirty jets or pilots, when the machine came home it had the this issue. That was 2 shops ago. The shop now does not want to give up. They went thru wiring fixed connections tried new CDI, new stator coils, check the coil, may have even tried a different carb bank from a different machine. Carbs have looked at by 2 different shops since the original rebuild. All is stock and all is correct current shop has had the carbs apart twice just to make sure, has checked reeds. I just do not know what else it could be. It will start with one pull and idle great, just will not rev past 5 grand.
 
Dr Nitro,
Have not checked end play in crank. I do not think shop has checked crank seal on clutch side either. Seal on stator side is fine.
 
N2oiroc,
Fuel pump has been rebuilt, new lines. When you get on the throttle it is soaking the plugs. It acts like timing, like there is no spark advance. Checked the keyway by the stator to make sure it had not been broken or fallen out. Shop is going to check the to see if the crank is still sync'd, and is not out of phase. I doubt that will be the problem. If so I do not know what could have caused it? like I said it ran fine when I originally brought it in to be worked on.
Thanks for the reply.
 
ready for this

2 things

A. does it have aftermarket hot grips, if so disconnect them and see if it fixes it self and I will tell you how to fix it if necessary

B. you said you originally brought it in for carb cleaning. Did it run OK when you brought it in and just wanted to service it? If this is true then the carbs were cleaned and assembled incorrectly.
When you take the float bowl off there are 2 rubber cap plugs covering passages. The plug should cover the center passage and the pilot jet. If the cap is on the center and the opposite passage from the pilot jet the sled will go up to about 6000 and sound like you pulled a plug wire. Or one of those plugs could be missing.
 
Sick Phazer

If the problem has not been found yet... The first thing is to isolate the problem to a system (diagnosis). Exactly how the motor cuts out should indicate the type of problem. You did not describe it completely but it does not sound like a fuel delivery problem (fuel supply to the carbs). If it is a sudden, total cut out (as if the key was turned off), it points to an electrical failure. Put a timing light on it and run it to the point of cutting out. If the light quits when the motor cuts out it is a spark problem - Forget about the fuel system or blockages or anything else.
If the light keeps flashing and seems to follow the speed of the motor as it should, raise the enrichener lever when the motor cuts out. If that revives the motor, if only for a few pops, it is most likely a fuel problem, possibly on one cylinder. These two quick checks will point to the problem in a great majority of cases.
The handwarmer problem can happen with original equipment handwarmers also, although I havent seen it cause the type of cutout you have and most likely the warmers have not always been on. If so, turn the swtch off and run it.
 
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800,
a.The sled has the stock hot grips. One of them is not working. Why would this have an effect on how the sled runs?
b. The sled ran great when I brought it in. I had had the sled for years and figured it was due for a carb cleaning. It had a slight low end bog when you first hit the throttle, like alot of old yamaha's, it would come right out of it and go like crazy. I had been using the sled as an extra sled. My father and brother in law would ride it some (always with us) so I wanted to get rid of the slight low end bog so it wouldn't jerk your head when you want to take off.
I will ask about the rubber plugs. That is the closest to what is sounds similar too. It only makes it to about the 5000rpm mark easily you have to work the thing on a stand to get it to make it to 6000 rpm's. What I mean by that is if you just deck the throttle it will make it to about 5G's and not climb over it. To get it to 6G's you need to climb to it slowly and it will barely get to 6ish G's.

Thanks for the reply I will ask about the plugs in the carbs. Please let me know about the hand warmers so I can explain it to the shop who has it now.
Phaser.
 
Wiseguy,
I will ask about the timing light. Yes we do not believe it is a fuel delivery problem. It gets plenty of fuel runs great at idle and low rpm but just will not come into it now. Almost like it is flooding. All is stock in the carbs jets and all. Will check the plugs 800 suggested. Other than that all has been checked that we can think of. I have not heard about the hand warmer thing until now, so if someone can explain it to me I will check into it. Even the factory ones of those years were an add-on so there is not much difference between the stock and an aftermarket then.
Will ask about the timing light, think he has tried one but will ask if he tried it at rev's.
Thank you for the reply.
Phaser
 
Was reading about your Phazer problem here, I had an 86 Phazer and I installed hand warmers. Every time you would hit 5000 RPM the thing would cut out, turn the warmers off and things were good. It turned out that the ground out of the stator was bad we installed a new ground and wired into the electrical and it fixed our problem.

Maybe your hand warmers are a symptom.

Good luck
 
All good advice above . . .

You will likely have to help your mechanic along with this one. Even though he may be very qualified, he is either overlooking something or unaware of something.

If it is an electrical related problem it is possibly one of the following . . .
  1. Stator shorting out/across or not getting a consistent ground. (Mentioned above)
  2. An electrical component or wiring is pulling an inconsistent load or shorting out to ground at higher rpms.
I would check the following items . . .
  1. Resistance of all coils (pulser, charge, lighting, warmer, cdi output) I have forgotten what all was on the model.
  2. Resistance of spark plug wires and caps
  3. Pull the wires part way off and test. This drops voltage due to the spark jumping twice (wire and plug). This will point to the cap, wire, or plug shorting out as charge increases
  4. Wiggle test for all wiring harnesses
  5. Isolation test (disconnect non-essential electric circuits one at a time to isolate problem)
Do also check the plugs in the carb bowl as mentioned above.

I know this seems obvious but try to focus on things that are different at revs than they are at idle. Look for anything else that is out of the norm as you approach the problem revs. A dyno might be good in this case as it will simulate load similar to actually riding.
 
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As you said it ran when you brought it in, the carb plugs are in the wrong location. The grip thing is, there is a ground problem with all those old sleds, when you put grips on them the ground in the harness is not sufficent, with the grips on the motor will hit around 5500 and do all kinds of weird things, sounding just like your problem. Turn them off and the sled straightens out. Take the hot grip ground and run it directly to the motor, problem solved. Your problem is the the carb plugs. People confuse the way they go in because other carbs that look the same like 87 Exciter carbs, the plugs are in the opposite spot.
 
800,
Thank you for the reply. I hope you are correct. I will pass on the info to the shop tomorrow. I will post if what if any of the suggestion solve this. I will cross my fingers!
As I said I have had the sled for a number of years. I kept it because of how well it treated me. To have this problem arise has just thrown me. Before bringing the sled in I had rebuilt the suspension completely, new slids, track, idler wheels, cleaned and lubed all suspension shafts, springs, left front bearing (at speedo cable), and checked and tensioned drive chain. After doing all the work my time slot at the shop came up and I brought it in and it returned with the mentioned problem. I really hope to solve this, as I still have new skis and a new (used) strut to replace one of the struts currently on the machine.
Just a bit more background.
Thanks all for help and will hope one of these suggestions solve this. The Plug in the carb sounds most like it to me as well, but we will see.
84Phaser
 
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How is the fuel economy. Is it using alot of gas? Floats in carb may be sticking or have sunk. Floats could be allowing to much gas thru.
 
sandmanmike1 said:
How is the fuel economy. Is it using alot of gas? Floats in carb may be sticking or have sunk. Floats could be allowing to much gas thru.
Click to expand...

if it was a sunk float it wouldn't idle

my money is either carb plugs are reversed, or it's a bad fuel pump, or more likely a bad fuel pump impulse line.
 
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