Dootalk thread bashing the Apex.


I used to go to dootalk quit a bit early last year. seems half way through last yr. and this yr. there is some on that sight acting like amsnowers. If you know some dootalkers you would see that most are good guys & see things without the yellow goggles on. in fact, there's a bunch of guys going blue, you'll see them here next yr.
 
Sounds like those guys have nothing good to say about the APEX mabe someone should show them the viedo of the APEX beating the mach z but they will have a million excusess and still claim there sled is much fast.
 
rx1yama18 said:
Sounds like those guys have nothing good to say about the APEX mabe someone should show them the viedo of the APEX beating the mach z but they will have a million excusess and still claim there sled is much fast.
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What video are youtalking about? I want to see it.



***Nevermind I got it***
 
guys, you're stooping to there level by having this thread, you're bashing the rev's just as bad as they where bashing the 06's

the 06's have alot of great new features yes, but they're not as revolutionary as the RX-1 was in 03, or the rev was when it was first released to, people are coming to expect that kind of change.

and anyone who thinks that the 1000SDI isn't fast, it fooling themselves. Anyone who thinks that video of the apex beating down the mach is a scene that will be repeated at will, is also fooling themselves.

both company's have great products, and these 2 are in my opinion the technological drivers of the industry, these are the 2 that make the breakthru's that the rest have to follow.

stop bashing the doo's, and how much more of a hypocritical statement is it than saying "they're immature and bash everything they feel threatened by" ... you're bashing them... yamaha has felt the need to copy them into a rider forward design.
 
This is a quote from the Doo Talk forum. Interesting.

"You guys on this site kill me....if your not bashing other brands you spend your time beating the SH^T out of BRP for not fixing the long list of BS that the last 3 years have brought to you.....take the blinders already and grow up.

PS. My original post and the 5 PAGES of BS that followed it just reminded me why I know I made the WRONG descision coming to a DOO. You guys are like a bunch of whining women....I have ridden EVERY BRAND out there. The Yamaha forum TY.com crushes this place. Everyone there is eager to help each other and act like gentlemen. When I annouced that I bought a REV they were all eager to hear how things were going and what my thoughts on the REV were. Look at how you guys reacted....my theory was correct!"


"I APOLOGIZE TO THOSE WHO LOOKED AT THIS THREAD WITH OBJECTIVITY>>>IT"S THE IGNORANT ONE's I AM REFERRING TO."
 
after reading the DOO thread on the Snow west site

I read this and of course was also defensive at first but then noticed several people defending the ergos and all the reasons why I wanted to sign up and comment , so I think the truth will be seen . There were several of the DOO guys saying they were jumping ship ....... this is all the more reason there all threatened ! But , as far as I'm concerned atleast polaris is trying the 4 stroke arena . (I think there engine is WEAK!) But none the less atleast they're in a strange way acknowledge the real need for 4 strokes and the "soon to be" market sweep by the BLUE crew ! BUT one thing i wasn't completely aware of and thought was a bit shady was that the advertising i've seen for the new sleds was they were all the new rider forward desing and now after reading a little closer , I guess only the APEX is the Delta 2 chasis ? Is this correct , what about the ATTACK ? So I see where I would feel deceived as a consumer if i ordered a NYTRO and later found out it was just a different seat etc. , Yamaha should be more clear on the diference ! Perhaps I've just missed alot of info in all my mags and adds I've seen ? Just thought I would point thi out ! And get a little more feed back from some other BLUE blooded people . I think I will address this with a new topic so everyone knows I'm double posting just makeing it the center of discussion not the DOO , bullshit ! ;)!
 
The Apex ER, RTX, GT and the Attak and the Apex Mountain are all new delta box II chasis... The Nytro is still the delta box chassis but with a new seat, tank cover and bars to move the rider more forward over the tank to give you a similar feel to the Apex. I have rode them all at the Demo ride earlier this year and as much as some think the Nytro is not rider forward....ride it and you will change your mind.
 
alaskanbowtie said:
I read this and of course was also defensive at first but then noticed several people defending the ergos and all the reasons why I wanted to sign up and comment , so I think the truth will be seen . There were several of the DOO guys saying they were jumping ship ....... this is all the more reason there all threatened ! But , as far as I'm concerned atleast polaris is trying the 4 stroke arena . (I think there engine is WEAK!) But none the less atleast they're in a strange way acknowledge the real need for 4 strokes and the "soon to be" market sweep by the BLUE crew ! BUT one thing i wasn't completely aware of and thought was a bit shady was that the advertising i've seen for the new sleds was they were all the new rider forward desing and now after reading a little closer , I guess only the APEX is the Delta 2 chasis ? Is this correct , what about the ATTACK ? So I see where I would feel deceived as a consumer if i ordered a NYTRO and later found out it was just a different seat etc. , Yamaha should be more clear on the diference ! Perhaps I've just missed alot of info in all my mags and adds I've seen ? Just thought I would point thi out ! And get a little more feed back from some other BLUE blooded people . I think I will address this with a new topic so everyone knows I'm double posting just makeing it the center of discussion not the DOO , bullshit ! ;)!
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ok, I gotta call on this one guys, i've talked to BRP engineers, and I've seen the numbers those machines are laying, there DI outboard engine line is some of the cleanest engines out there, cleaner than the yamaha 4-strokes boatsd of competative power, not to mention lighter and ballsier. BRP is a company with very much focus on 2-strokes, the only other company I can compare them to would be aprillia in this regard, it's the opinion of some of there engineers (and myself) that making a clean 4-stroke is a relativly easy thing to do, and a far cry from an artfull motor. some of the 2-stroke technology they have produced is art, the number of variables involved in a crankcase induction system alone is rediculous, but when they are working they are a marvel of engineering.

I for one give BRP credit for standing up and having the balls to throw there resources at making a 2-stroke clean rather than making a 4-stroke powerfull, and IF the succeed, which they have already showed serios signs of doing (their meer presence this model year attests to that), they will emerge as the first manufacturer to do so, and bring it into the market on this kind of scale, and it has been tried by some BIG companys, Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM have all tried it, they couldn't get it to work nearly as good as BRP has. It's possible that in 10 years the 4-strokes will be "old fashioned archaic dinosaurs" as many on this forum are quick to call the 2-strokes now. Neither technology should be abandoned, and to call 2-strokes old fashioned when 4-stroke powerplants have had 100x or more the $ in research and developement sunk into them over the last 100 years 'cause they're easier to make work is pretty low.


in any case, I"m getting off the soapbox now, just wanted to call :ORC on everyone
 
Junior - I don't want to turn this into Amsnow, but I would have to disagree with some of your observations - the DI outboards, are not currently cleaner than the four strokes - they meet the 2006 emmisions but not the 2010 emmisions like the four strokes do - the DI technology is interesting, but it currently has its limitations - they haven't figured out how to make it work on anything with more than 2 cylinders and it is not cheap - 150 hp Evinrude 2 stroke DI outboard - MSRP 15888 - 150 hp Yamaha 4 stroke EFI - MSRP 12750 - making a clean 4 stroke is easier - but making a four stroke for a snowmobile and having it stay with a 2 stroke that has 15 more hp and less weight - pure genius - the next 4 years will decide the fate of the 2 stroke engine - but if oil prices keep going up, I won't be riding anything that I have to put both gas and oil in no matter how clean it runs
 
you guys are bringing some very interesting points to the table, this is good stuff ;)!
 
mrtahoe said:
Junior - I don't want to turn this into Amsnow, but I would have to disagree with some of your observations - the DI outboards, are not currently cleaner than the four strokes - they meet the 2006 emmisions but not the 2010 emmisions like the four strokes do - the DI technology is interesting, but it currently has its limitations - they haven't figured out how to make it work on anything with more than 2 cylinders and it is not cheap - 150 hp Evinrude 2 stroke DI outboard - MSRP 15888 - 150 hp Yamaha 4 stroke EFI - MSRP 12750 - making a clean 4 stroke is easier - but making a four stroke for a snowmobile and having it stay with a 2 stroke that has 15 more hp and less weight - pure genius - the next 4 years will decide the fate of the 2 stroke engine - but if oil prices keep going up, I won't be riding anything that I have to put both gas and oil in no matter how clean it runs
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ya you're not wrong, but I don't think they're done either, forgive me if my argument is abit weak, I'm really sick and can't seem to keep a line of thought running more than a couple minutes.

from what I understand, the MSRP was brought up on the 'rude, 'cause when it was cheaper than competative 4-strokes, they wheren't selling, people didn't seem to believe they could get something clean, with better mileage, more power, and lighter for less money, since the price increase, they've been selling well. Realistically, the DI technology is still in it's infancy, and already with only a few moving parts, it's shown GREAT promise, I've got a few idea's on how to improve it, but I need to finish school before I can really confirm or deny that they would be any improvement at all.

As far as the rev platform, whether you enjy riding it or not (I certainly don't) you have to admit that it was pretty outa the box thinking to bring a deltabox chassis to the market before the original inventor of it (yamaha) thought to. the torsional strength in that chassis is incredible, I really wish a trailing arm sled hadda been released with a deltabox frame at some point, I imagine the cornering would have been razor sharp.

in any case, I agree, I don't want to turn this into amsnow, but aslong as it stays concise and intelligent I don't think we're getting that low. you bring up good points, but having talked to the engineers for BRP I am damned impressed with them, they don't make a machine for me, but they make an awesome machine. (and yes, I ribbed them pretty good about making a low slung triple triple)
 
Guys - this is why I love this forum - we can share our opinions in a non hostile environment - I agree with you Junior in regards to Ski Doo also taking risk with the development and advancement of snowmobile technology - competition is a good thing - it brings the best out of everyone - I would be riding a Ski Doo if I wasn't such a loyal Yamaha guy - three years ago, I was thinking Yamaha was blowing it with the whole 4 stroke thing - now it appears it was pure genius - you made the comment that the DI technology is in its infancy - I feel the same way about the 4 stroke technology - I think we are living in a very exciting time for snowmobiling - something we have not experienced since the 90's - let's set back and enjoy the ride! - RIDE ON BROTHER!
 
I dunno, 4-strokes in snowmobiles are in there infancy forsure, but keep in mind there's 60 years of R&D from the bike side under the hood of that apex

the DI is just the latest evolution of the 2-stroke, which is an old, but I don't think anyone can argue that the 2-stroke is a brutally powerfull engine for it's cost/size/weight I think that DI is the necessary technology to bring them into the clean light.


but ya, I agree, the fact we can have this discussion means that the competition is healthy, and that's what's best for everyone. keep those engineers causing each other sleepless nights and we'll always have something awesome to rip around on.

cheers to everyone on this one!
 
history with the 4-stroke from the Yammi Bikes

This is a good point which i'm sure others have also thought about , the 05' R1 Bike is rated at 180 H.P. , so i'm sure there is some room for improvement on the sled side of Yammi too . But you know what they say , never show your hand , atleast not all of it . So I'm sure were going to see some bigger numbers being put out by the blue team in the future , and this is with out forced induction . CAN YOU SAY WOW ! 2 stroke is for sure the most H.p. per cubic inch but as was noted the price of oil and gas is only going to get higher , so unless the fuel mileage and oil combined can be the same as the consumption of a 4 stroke , I think the end will be more 4 strokes then 2 . I could be wrong and have been lots of times but it only seems to reason thats the way our hobby is headed . I'm also sure the other companies are considering the same history for the future , i.e. Cat using Suzuki bullet bike engines with some alterations of course but you see the idea . Anyway thats just more thoughts I've had . More power to Yamaha ! The Blue Revolution ! :WayCool:
 
alaskanbowtie said:
This is a good point which i'm sure others have also thought about , the 05' R1 Bike is rated at 180 H.P. , so i'm sure there is some room for improvement on the sled side of Yammi too . But you know what they say , never show your hand , atleast not all of it . So I'm sure were going to see some bigger numbers being put out by the blue team in the future , and this is with out forced induction . CAN YOU SAY WOW ! 2 stroke is for sure the most H.p. per cubic inch but as was noted the price of oil and gas is only going to get higher , so unless the fuel mileage and oil combined can be the same as the consumption of a 4 stroke , I think the end will be more 4 strokes then 2 . I could be wrong and have been lots of times but it only seems to reason thats the way our hobby is headed . I'm also sure the other companies are considering the same history for the future , i.e. Cat using Suzuki bullet bike engines with some alterations of course but you see the idea . Anyway thats just more thoughts I've had . More power to Yamaha ! The Blue Revolution ! :WayCool:
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1. try riding one of the 04-05 R1s the power comes on like a lightswitch, harder than most 2-strokes I've ridden

2. I wouldn't rule the DI 2-strokes out at all as far as mileage goes.

all is well tho, hopefully we can see this whole thing unfold ;)!
 
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