I'm planning on changing out my W-arm with the new style H-arm on my 99 Mtn Max and I am trying to verify which parts MUST be changed. I have printed out both fiche pictures off the parts finder along with the parts lists but don't want to buy anymore than I have to. To make a long story short the two main parts I am concerned about are the rear lower scissor, which actually is not that expensive, and the front lower shock shaft, which is over $100.00.
I know when they updated the skid in 2000 the length of the transfer rods and angle of them was changed so I'm not sure if the rear lower scissor change was a weight transfer issue or a functionality one due to addition of H-arm. I plan on removing my transfer rods so if it's not a functionality thing associated with the H-arm I can skip buying it.
I am also hoping the only reason for the change on the front lower shock mount is due to the new placement of the limiter straps. They move from being attached to the lower shock mount shaft to a cross bar at the front of the rails. So if that is the only reason for the change, I can skip that also.
Any info on this change over would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Troy
I know when they updated the skid in 2000 the length of the transfer rods and angle of them was changed so I'm not sure if the rear lower scissor change was a weight transfer issue or a functionality one due to addition of H-arm. I plan on removing my transfer rods so if it's not a functionality thing associated with the H-arm I can skip buying it.
I am also hoping the only reason for the change on the front lower shock mount is due to the new placement of the limiter straps. They move from being attached to the lower shock mount shaft to a cross bar at the front of the rails. So if that is the only reason for the change, I can skip that also.
Any info on this change over would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Troy
gild
New member
H arm
The H arm will not work on the pre 2000 rails. The 99 and older rails with the upturned tips go inbetween the W arm when bottomed where as the 2000 and newer Mountain rails bottom on the mounting shaft of the H arm. You need the newer rails (141+) for the H arm. Other than the newer Limiting straps ,lower shock bracket, Lower L brackets for front arm and transfer rods if you want them will work. To complicate things if you buy the newer 2000 and up MNT RAILS YOU CAN USE YOUR STOCK W ARM, all you lose is a set of wheels on the rails.
The H arm will not work on the pre 2000 rails. The 99 and older rails with the upturned tips go inbetween the W arm when bottomed where as the 2000 and newer Mountain rails bottom on the mounting shaft of the H arm. You need the newer rails (141+) for the H arm. Other than the newer Limiting straps ,lower shock bracket, Lower L brackets for front arm and transfer rods if you want them will work. To complicate things if you buy the newer 2000 and up MNT RAILS YOU CAN USE YOUR STOCK W ARM, all you lose is a set of wheels on the rails.
MountainMax
New member
Been doing way too much thinking about this conversion lately. I do have 141" rails and believe I've figured pretty much everything out but do need some assistance on one more thing. I am installing a Fabcraft tunnel and do to the fact that I am going to run the jackshaft thru the tunnel for a very aggresive drop and roll my suspension mounts are hosed up now. This would not be such a big deal if I wasn't converting to H-arm with 141 rails. My questions are as follows
1.Can anyone out there with a 2000 or newer Mtn Max tell me what the dimesions are from the rear skid mount to the center skid mount, the center skid mount to the front skid mount and the overall rear to front mount center to center distances are? Rear skid mount would be on the drop brackets where the bolt connects the two and the other mounts are in the tunnel.
My 99 Mtn Max with W-arm setup is 16" rear to center, 18 15/16" center to front and 34 5/8" rear to front.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Troy
1.Can anyone out there with a 2000 or newer Mtn Max tell me what the dimesions are from the rear skid mount to the center skid mount, the center skid mount to the front skid mount and the overall rear to front mount center to center distances are? Rear skid mount would be on the drop brackets where the bolt connects the two and the other mounts are in the tunnel.
My 99 Mtn Max with W-arm setup is 16" rear to center, 18 15/16" center to front and 34 5/8" rear to front.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Troy
MountainMax
New member
I have an 02, will those measurements be ok? if so I will check it today and get back to you here suppertime tonight.....Im heading down to my cabin now for the day.
Yep, anything 2000 or newer will work. I really appreciate you're help on this as it's been driving me crazy. I just want to make sure my suspension gets relocated correctly so I don't have problems with binding or worse yet a break of some sort.
Thanks
Troy
Thanks
Troy
MountainMax,
If it's not too much trouble could you also get me some dimentions from the back edge of the bulkhead to the front & center skid mounts. Maybe a height from from the footboards on those two bolts also if you can.
Thanks again,
Troy
If it's not too much trouble could you also get me some dimentions from the back edge of the bulkhead to the front & center skid mounts. Maybe a height from from the footboards on those two bolts also if you can.
Thanks again,
Troy
gild
New member
If you drop and roll you hane to move skid proportional to the drive axle not the bulkhead
gild,
I know everything moves with the drive axle but the H-arm style mounts on the tunnel while the W-arm mounts on the bulkhead. So in order for me to make a template to move everything back I must first know where all the stock mounts are on an H-arm style suspension. I believe the geometry is the same but on the H-arm style all the mounts move back 3-4" compared to stock W-arm setup. That includes the front mount and it's easiest to locate that by measuring from the bulkhead.
Thanks
Troy
I know everything moves with the drive axle but the H-arm style mounts on the tunnel while the W-arm mounts on the bulkhead. So in order for me to make a template to move everything back I must first know where all the stock mounts are on an H-arm style suspension. I believe the geometry is the same but on the H-arm style all the mounts move back 3-4" compared to stock W-arm setup. That includes the front mount and it's easiest to locate that by measuring from the bulkhead.
Thanks
Troy
gild
New member
Not exactly sure but the W arm suspension hole on the 121 or 136 rails must be moved back 9 or 9.5 inches to fit the newer 141 rails with 9 or 8 tooth drivers. I went back 9.5 inches to install my SXr with 151 rails with 8 tooth extros with the W arm.
gild,
I've got 141" rails with H-arm and 8 tooth drivers. I never thought about it until you mentioned it but driver size will play a role in what length rail extensions I buy. Wow this is fun stuff to try and figure out. I guess if I can get those stock dimensions for a 2000 or newer I should be able to make up my template and hopefully that simplifies things greatly.
As always I appreciate the feedback because it makes a guy really think it thru so as to eliminate mistakes.
Thanks
Troy
I've got 141" rails with H-arm and 8 tooth drivers. I never thought about it until you mentioned it but driver size will play a role in what length rail extensions I buy. Wow this is fun stuff to try and figure out. I guess if I can get those stock dimensions for a 2000 or newer I should be able to make up my template and hopefully that simplifies things greatly.
As always I appreciate the feedback because it makes a guy really think it thru so as to eliminate mistakes.
Thanks
Troy
What size drivers are stock on 2000 or newer Mtn Max? I know my 99 came with 8 tooth, just curious if 2000 and newer are 8 tooth also.
gild
New member
They are 8 tooth stock. Just another thing to think about is that if you drop the rear of the skid and centre shaft also, the front mounting shaft gets really close to the inside of your track and may rub on the shock brkt of the H arm. You should have a straight line from the drivers to the upper rear idlers and the centre shaft wheels should just touch. I,ve seen a lot of sleds with the centre shaft wheels keeping the the track up to clear the H arm shock brkt. causing some unnecessary rolling resistance.
Great advise, thanks.
This fabcraft tunnel is not pre-drilled for anything so I want to make sure I know where everything is going to avoid unnecessary drilling.
gild, in you're opinion, does the center to front mount dimension really have to be exact for proper function of the suspension or is it just the center to rear mount dimension that really makes the difference. I understand what you are saying about the height of the rear and center mounts but I'm just curious if I'm worrying too much about that H-arm mount location. I do still want to know the dimensions on the stock mounting location though.
Thanks
Troy
This fabcraft tunnel is not pre-drilled for anything so I want to make sure I know where everything is going to avoid unnecessary drilling.
gild, in you're opinion, does the center to front mount dimension really have to be exact for proper function of the suspension or is it just the center to rear mount dimension that really makes the difference. I understand what you are saying about the height of the rear and center mounts but I'm just curious if I'm worrying too much about that H-arm mount location. I do still want to know the dimensions on the stock mounting location though.
Thanks
Troy
gild
New member
The H arm mounting is critical as I mentioned clearance to inside of track and also track adjustability for tension. That as well as centre shaft and rear shaft locations must be exact for permitting the suspension from binding. It is a coupled suspension and correct mount locations is law.I believe Mountain performance did have templates when the 02 Vipers came out and were longtracke to 151s.