1997 V-Max 600SX engine problem

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kimoaj

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Hi!

The last couple of days I have been fixing some things on a girl-friend`s 1997 V-Max 600SX.

She bought this sled 2 months ago, before the snow came. She wanted me to come along when she went to buy it so that I could check the condition of the sled. Sled seemed to be in great shape, only bad thing was some bad roller bushing in the primary, easy fix + a leak in the exhaust manifoil.

When I went to her house to pick up the sled the other day, it wouldn`t start. The last time I heard it run I heard that it wasn`t running right, seemed like it had fouled on of the plugs, you know how it is when you buy a new sled and your friends come over to look at it, you fire it up and shut it down without rewing it properly so that it burns the oil away.

It started after many pulls, but did not run right, only bogged when I hit the throttle. I put in the reserve plugs (of course the previous owner had put used plugs in the reservere holders, did not look good infact). It fired up after some pulls but still didn`t run right. I let it warm up and then when I hit the throttle it would bog until I gave it enough throttle so that it would go above 4000rpm, then it rew like hell and seemed to run right. Infact I was somewhat amazed by the power of that 600.

I got the sled home and I figured this was a plug or carburator issue. After I had changed the exhaust gaskets and put new ski plastics on it, I pulled carbs.
HPIM1146Medium.jpg


I was amazed by how easy they were to get off.
HPIM1149Medium.jpg


First I thought that it might be one of the carbs because this is how it looked on the air filter side.
HPIM1148Medium.jpg


When I removed the float chamebers I found nothing but nice and clean gas.

I reinstalled the carbs, also changed the fuel lines for the carbs, and fired it up. Still ran like a bitch.

Imediately after start up the idle is very unstabile, goes up and down, but when the sled was warm it idled ok. However, if I blip the throttle a little it wouldnt go down to idle imediately after I let go of the throttle, the rpms decreased very slowly.
When I hit the throttle from idle, ut reacts fine, runs nice until it reaches 3000rpm, then this "bogging" sound appear but when I give it more throttle so that it rews over 4000rpm it runs real good, wierd.

I also tried another set of plugs, I had one new BR9ES and one old that I don`t know the condtion of, it might be a fouled one I had lying around from my old Mad Max 540.

A little resume: Sled runs nice above 4-5000rpm, but has a wierd feeling on the throttle. Idles OK, tend to bog just after primary engages but will rew fine above 4000rpm or atleast it rews high when hitting the throttle 100%.

Could this be a spark plug problem?.

It has to be the sparkplugs, the carbs are clean and it`s a Yamaha! :).

Anyone have any opinions on this one?.


Joakim, Norway.
 
Man, could it be the stator??.

Is it possible to check by checking the resistance in the coils through the wires that some place?. So that I don`t have to remove the flywheel and everything.. .

I hope it will run fine after installing new plugs..
 
I had the same problem with my sled about 2 weeks ago.

Took a lot of pulls to start and ran like crap.

A tank full of fresh gas, new plugs, same problem...wouldn't rev over 4k.

Had the carbs removed and cleaned and runs like a champ now. I think carb cleaning involves a little more than just opening the float bowls...They took my carbs apart completely and cleaned every little part.

If you have had it runing, then I guess there would be clean gas in the float bowls.

I am betting the carbs just need a thorough cleaning.

Jim
 
OK Thanks for the tip ThePunisher! :).

Well, actually I don`t think it`s the carbs because the were all so clean. I ofcourse cleaned them with compressed air and blew through all holes/jets etc.

I first figured it had to be a glogged pilot jet since it ran fine on full throttle but like a Doo on low rpm (haha :yam: ) but all the jets was totally clean.

By the way, should I try to remove the belt and tre rewing it?. The rollers in the primary are worn, alot of slack in the pushings.

Can`t be the primary who`s playing a trick on me?.
 
check the T.O.R.S,it sounds like and acts like what you described about the rpm range.it wouldnt hurt to switch the wires to disarm the tors.to see this is the culprit
 
are the reeds in good shape? I had vforce reeds in mine (the same sled) and once one broke and had very similar problems.
 
even if the carbs look clean I would take the jets out and clean then good.
Check the TORS. And if still no luck crank seals.
 
Look at the crankshaft next to the primay. You may see the crank seal has come apart. I have seen the lip seal end of them torn off and rolling around the shaft like a misplaced o'ring.
 
Man I hate to say it but that's exactly how my 97 600 XTC behaved when the dreaded ring failure happened. I suggest you drain some antifreeze and pull the heads to see what the pistons look like.

Or at the least, run a compression check on it.
 
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...sounds like it may be a t.o.r.s. problem.....maybe that ur throttle cable is too tight....loosen it off a bit and see if this helps...
 
Hi guys !.

Thanks alot for all the tips! :). I`ve been away since my last post to it was nice to read all the new posts.

My first thought from these symptons were that is was sucking "false air" . I suspeceted the inlet rubber to be bad or something, but it looked fine.
By the way, I took out all the jets in the carb and blew through them with compressed air.

When I had the carbs off I noticed that the TORS was infact disconnected. Or, wires from the carb sensor was plugged into themselves, so in other words it was disabled.

Shouldn`t the TORS adjust the ignition so that the engine will not rew over for example 3000rpm or so?. Well, it`s disconnected so it ain`t the TORS.

I`am still very curious on how it will run will new spark plugs. New spark plugs and rollers for the primary is beeing sent from my dealer today. You see, I have to drive 1hour and 10minutes to get to the nearest motorcycle/sled shop in order to buy simple things as sparkplugs. Very few gas stations around here carry motorcycle/sled plugs in their "goods assortment" , sorry for the bad english:). And yes, I live on the country side.

I hope it isn`t rings or blewn crank seal. If the crank seal is blewn, then I guess I have to remove the engine from the sled and tear it completely apart?.

I`m not afraid of doing it, I think it`s fun, but I feel somewhat dumb since I was the ony who was suppost to check the condition of the sled when my friend bought it. However, when we went to look at the sled there was no snow and the guy lived in the middle of the city so I was not able to test it. We only fired it up and it seemed fine. When we drove it into the trailer it did not act like this, so I guess it can`t be the rings. On the other side it could be the seal, but still wierd since the sled hasn`t been run since it was bought.

A friend of me has a pretty simple compresstion tester that I can borrow. I think it measures the pressure in bar`s. How many bars should these 600 engines have?.

This engine has 7900kilometers on the clocks.
A blewn seal isn`t expensive but the gaskets etc. costs enough. I know my friend doesn`t have that much money so I doubt she can afford new pistons incase an engine tear down is necessary. I`ve heard that the pistons should be changed after ca. 8000 kilometers, or?.

A friend of me has a V-Max 4 with 13000kilometers on the clock, still runs nice.

By the way the guys who sold the sled seemed to be decent honest people. The kid was 19 years old but still seemed liked a nice guy, or, he didn`t seem like a sled abuser:). His parents were also there during the sale so it all seemed "safe".


What spark plugs are the best for this sled?.

I ordered two BR9EYA and two BR9ES. BR9ES as spare plugs since they are a little cheaper. From what I have understood the BR9EYA is more resistent against plug fouling?.


Joakim :).
 
if you suspect that the crank seals may be out, take some starting fluid (ether) and with the engine running, spray some behind the primary clutch towards the crank bearing seal. If the engine revs up, your pto crank bearing seal is bad. May have to get a little more creative to get starting fluid to the mag side seal to check that one.
 
Thanks for the tip yamaholic22 !.

Personaly I`d really like to tore a sled engine apart because I have never done it before, but moneyvise I don`t think my girl-friend would like it.

How mouch will a such job cost?.
If the pistons looks OK then is it OK to only change the rings?.

What I need is the new seals and the gaskets + new rings for the piston.
Or, should the pistons be replaced when first having it tored down?.

Gees, this sled was suppost to be perfect, hehe..

:)
 
try simple things first, like your plugs,and holics eather idea. you dont want to tear into a healthy motor if you dont have to.
 
daman yes I actuall think it is the plugs. Today I tried to spray CRC 5-56 (was out of start gas) on the crank seal and around the inlet boots but I couldnt hear any difference. Did not try the magneto seal though.

I brought my videocamera and filmed when I started the sled (I had started it right before I started it on the film). Did not use choke since it had run a minute ago. As you can hear it only runs on one cylinder, then when I give it a little gas it suddenly fires on both. (engine still a little cold I guess).

You can see/hear what happens when I try to ride it, you hear the bogging tendency and that the rpm rises if I give it much throttle.

V-Max 600 SX wierd behavior video clip

Right click and save target as (unless you are on broadband and can stream it).

The video was probably unnessecary but it gives you a better picture of what happens.
Still, can be as easy as the plugs I`m probably making a way to big deal about this, but I think it`s fun:).

Joakim
 
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ther it worked know, Joakim did you put the new plugs in yet and do a com.test?

it sounds like yea your only running on one till ya juce it

man it shure sounds like a piliot jet is pluged you shure you removed
everything and blew it out good??????
 
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Yeah it only runs on one cylinder when it`s cold and between 3000-4500rpm, but fires on both when given full throttle.

Noh I havent changed the plugs because I still haven`t got them, I live on the country side you see so I had to order them.

I have bunch of used spark plugs in my workshop but many of them are fouled etc. I don`t know why I keep them, just like old pistons, I don`t throw away hehe:).
 
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