Engine rebuild question

Mac

Mac

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Joined
May 2, 2003
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Location
New Jersey
I'm rebuilding the top end on a Viper. I'm also switching from Yamalube to Amsoil this season. Question is should I breakin the moter with Petroleum Yamalube first before switching to synthetic? Also what do the guys who run synthetic do when they rebuild? Do they breakin with synthetic?
 
yup, as ^he^ said, break it in on some petroleum stuff for the first tank of oil, then switch to the good stuff.
 
I am a guy who uses KLOTZ.. ALWAYS HAVE and probably always will.. When I go through a motor and spend HUNDREDS of dollars in re nikasil ing and replacing rings, WHY IN THE HELL would I use non synthetic oil to break in the motor with????? I think that these guys do NOT know what they are talking about... The surfaces of a freshly honed bore are AWFULLY scratchy..... They are made that way to BREAK IN THE RINGS!!!!! The rings will break in using EITHER conventional 2 stroke oil OR synthetic oil.... The synthetic oil is NOT tougher than the cylinder bores... Will it take LONGER to break in?????? MAYBE A LITTLE LONGER!!!!!!! MAYBE your motor will not wear out as fast using synthetic oil (proven fact!!!). SO, In all reality, using synthetic oil is FAR BETTER FOR BREAK IN than conventional motor oil!!! DON'T LISTEN TO THE "old schoolers"... Motors aren't made with cast iron jugs anymore... NOW CAST IRON is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY..... Cast iron uses a different ring and the surfaces aren't as tough as nikasil!!!! cast iron motors NEED conventional oil to break in, because the surfaces have to seal with one another... Thats why you build cast motors DRY compared to nikasil motors.... The scratching works well on cast jugs!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
 
20 years ago, you would build a motor, start it up with premix and rev it up to 8000 and bring it right back down, do this a twenty times and shut it off to cool down.... retorque EVERYTHING and drive it around... Todays engines, you rebuild it, start it up, and drive around with it... TOTALLY different monsters than yesterdays engines.... I guess some of the "old wise tales" are still alive and well...Gary Oles nosboy
 
WHY WOULD YOU WANT THE RINGS TO SCUFF IN SOONER?????????????? maybe so the motor could wear out faster???????? so you could SELL MORE PARTS?????????
 
I just rebuilt my top end and I was using klotz. I called them and Klotz said to not use theirs for break in.

I will use klotz after break in, after all they are only three miles from my work.

Tod
 
Gary-You do it your way, we'll do it our way. And I use Klotz too. Some of us would rather get the rings seated early to make more available horsepower sooner.
 
bluehammer said:
Gary-You do it your way, we'll do it our way. And I use Klotz too. Some of us would rather get the rings seated early to make more available horsepower sooner.
Click to expand...
Why don't you rephrase it to " we like buying parts prematurely and we think that we are doing the right thing by supporting Yamaha's parts department and ALSO our local dealer"... That sounds a little more intelligent than GETTING THE RINGS SEATED EARLY... EARLIER THAN WHAT??????????? Gary Oles nosboy
 
wow, nosboy, you get pretty into this stuff dont you? Are your opinions the only ones that count? I think first off, if the DEVELOPERS of the oil, IE KLOTZ tell you NOT to use there oil on breakin, why the heck would you do it then? I mean dont they make the darn oil, and I think they would prolly know whether or not to use it on breakin, and why WOULDNT you want the rings to seat quicker? Im not sure im getting it. Everyone has different opinions obviously, why is yours the only one that is ever right?
 
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the rings will seat weather you use klotz, yamalube or PANTHER PEE!!!!! Its kinda like the guy who pulls his motor DRY for the first 60 pulls or so, thinking he did a great job in summerizing his sled!!!!! Your rings are going to seat within the FIRST FEW MILES of driving!!!! Weather you use KLOTZ or not!!!!! Why do you think they use a cross hatched pattern when honing????? TO MAKE THE RINGS SEAT RIGHT AWAY..... I've built a WHOLE lot of motors in my time and I have a LOT BETTER EDUCATION than the guy who answers the phone at KLOTZ does!!!!! The guy asked a question and I am giving him a HIGHLY educated answer... Not my OPINION that I heard in a bar on saturday night.... REMEMBER the guy has a TRAIL SLED not a RACE SLED... Do you think JONH FORCE breaks in his ZILLION horsepower fuel motors with YAMALUBE?????? A RACE MOTOR is a completely different animal than a TRAIL SLED.. I would NEVER break in a race motor with synthetic oil!!!!! NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!!!!! I would ALWAYS BREAK IN a trail sled motor with synthetic oil BECAUSE, THATS WHEN YOU NEED SYNTHETIC OIL THE MOST!!!!! REMEMBER, the surfaces are like 2 pieces of 36 grit sandpaper rubbing against each other.. I would HOPE to have synthetic oil when I need it the MOST!!!!!! I suppose, if you guys want to be STUPID, GO AHEAD!!! Its YOUR MOTOR that you're screwing up!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
 
do you know why JOHN FORCE uses Castrol??????? BECAUSE ITS FREE!!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
 
These forums are designed, in part, to help people with their snowmobiles..... MOST engine builders have NO TECHNICAL experience in PHYSICS, CHEMISTRY or METALLURGY! They learned from whoever and their way is thr right way!!!! Just ask them and they will tell you!!!!! I used to be they guy who made a big stink about people who do STUPID STUFF!!!! I've also done some STUPID STUFF in my life,,, WHO HASN'T????? I am trying to help this guy who asked for some help... IF YOU USED A PRESSURE FED OILING SYSTEM, I would recommend regular conventional oil,,, but,,,we are dealing with a 2 stroke motor that is premixed with GASOLINE mixed with ALCOHOL... Do you remember the post that i wrote about ALCOHOL destroying the lubricity of CONVENTIONAL OIL??????? 90% of the fuel on the market has ALCOHOL in it!!!!! ALCOHOL hates motor oil!!!!!! (with a passion) It hates 2 stroke oil EVEN MORE!!!!!!! SYNTHETIC OIL IS YOUR ONLY DEFENSE against ALCOHOL!!!!! Do you want me to get into the specifics of it???????? LESS THAN ONE TENTH OF ONE PERCENT would understand!!!!!!! If I wrote a post on it, people would read it for about 5 or 6 sentences!!!!!!! It would give them a headache!!!!!!!! THEY WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND!!!!! So,,, use your conventional oil,,,wear your stuff out prematurely,,,keep buying top ends every 3000 miles and the parts guys would be happy!!!!! Then you could create a post about blaming KLOTZ why your motor doesn't last longer!!!!!!!! LUCKY YOU!!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
 
hey 99sRx700: I am sorry if I offended you and My opinions aren't always right... I've spent a LOT of money and spent a LOT of years doing STUPID SHiT when it comes to building motors.... The motors of yesteryear are completely different animals and the metals are completely different than of times past!!!! The Federal Government was using synthetic oils in the 1940's!!! Diesters have been along for a long time!!!!! There was a company called energy release that sold Moly di sulfide based lubricants for chaincases!!!! They put it at the snowmobile shows and ALMOST NOBODY BOUGHT IT!!!! Needless to say, the gov't has been using it for 60+ years with ASTRONOMICAL RESULTS (really astronomical!!!!) The SNowmobie market has some of the STUPIDEST people on the planet!!!!! MOLY DI' is about the SLIPPERIEST THING KNOWN TO MAN (next to teflon) Du Pont Nemours' is a VERY INTELLIGENT COMPANY!!!!! They hire some of the best engineers in the world!!!! Why didn't the snowmobile population BUY THE hELL out of MOLYDI??????????? Because MOST of them are HILLBILLY FARMERS with little or NO education beyond HIGH SCHOOL!!!!! If GRANDPA didn't use it in his MASSEY FERGUSON tractor,,,, It MUST not be any good!!!!!!! Thats the mentality at the snowmobile shows (for the most part)!!!!! There are a FEW intelligent guys out there in the sales and marketing of snowmobile aftermarket parts.. One is Randy NOUIS!!!!! I see Randy at a snow show and we start talking, he has to walk away because we could go on for HOURS together!!!! He payed attention in school!!!!! The theres guys like the guy in Wisconsin that makes the turbo's.. He CANNOT even structure a sentence properly!!!!!! Give that guy a hunk of metal and a bridgeport and a lathe and see if HE can make a turbo out of it!!! I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!I don't want to get into a pissing match with you guys, I love EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU GUYS ,EVEN IF YOU DON't AGREE WITH ME!!!!!! I have NOTHING to hide and nothing to gain bu giving advice.. i have NO stock in KLOTZ or YAMAHA and i am in NO WAY getting kickbacks for any of this!!! ( I may get a couple of free stickers from the klotz guy at the snow show though!!!!) Gary Oles nosboy
 
me,,, Gary Oles,,,speechless!!!!!!! (just kidding!!!) and YES!!! I LOVE capital letters AND exclamation points too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
 
Careful, Gary, you're gonna get too excited here and spin a bearing. Then we're gonna have to get the crash cart out because you're in a "code blue" situation. And all because of a discussion about oil? Not hardly worth it.
 
It took me 20 years to pay off my student loans!!!!! I'm still pissed off about that one!!!
 
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