Millinocket Rocket
New member
i just installed some hammertimes and a heel-x before this season started. it definitely pulls better, but i've got a lot of tuning to do. we've got over 8" of ice with 4" of new snow on a local pond here- going up first thing in the morning for some test runs 
. started out with red spring, 5.3g in the heel, 3g in each of the other holes, heel-x was wrapped at 80 (6-2). it pulled REAL hard on a hardpacked road, but didn,t have enough room to open her up. it also seemed like the secondary was shifting out too quick. i took it up a powdery hill-- spinning- and could smell a little rubber and the rpms dropped pretty quick. got back to the house and both clutches were too hot to touch. i didn't like the high engagement of the red spring (around 4500 - 4700). so what i did was... and i know you should only change one thing at a time but-- i changed the primary spring to the light blue, and wrapped the secondary to 90 to grab the belt a little more. engagement was much smoother and around 4000. took it out on the lake up to my camp and could only get 7500 rpms (didn't hold it too long- it was glare ice). so now this is where i'm at: i left the secondary the way it is, (stock spring btw) but i may be able to back it down to an 85 wrap (6.5 hole)? and i took the 3 gram weights out so they're empty except for the 5.3 heel to get my rpms up to 8500. all i know about clutching has been learned on this site and clutching is brand new to me-- am i headed in the right direction? i realize i won't be able to pull as much weight with the softer spring but really like the lower engagement for trail riding. also, the helix is a 42/38, and the motor is stock. one question i'm wondering is, will it pull harder with the red spring and more weight, compared to the blue spring with little or no weight, or is my only concern to get to 8500 rpms? any help would be awesome!
. started out with red spring, 5.3g in the heel, 3g in each of the other holes, heel-x was wrapped at 80 (6-2). it pulled REAL hard on a hardpacked road, but didn,t have enough room to open her up. it also seemed like the secondary was shifting out too quick. i took it up a powdery hill-- spinning- and could smell a little rubber and the rpms dropped pretty quick. got back to the house and both clutches were too hot to touch. i didn't like the high engagement of the red spring (around 4500 - 4700). so what i did was... and i know you should only change one thing at a time but-- i changed the primary spring to the light blue, and wrapped the secondary to 90 to grab the belt a little more. engagement was much smoother and around 4000. took it out on the lake up to my camp and could only get 7500 rpms (didn't hold it too long- it was glare ice). so now this is where i'm at: i left the secondary the way it is, (stock spring btw) but i may be able to back it down to an 85 wrap (6.5 hole)? and i took the 3 gram weights out so they're empty except for the 5.3 heel to get my rpms up to 8500. all i know about clutching has been learned on this site and clutching is brand new to me-- am i headed in the right direction? i realize i won't be able to pull as much weight with the softer spring but really like the lower engagement for trail riding. also, the helix is a 42/38, and the motor is stock. one question i'm wondering is, will it pull harder with the red spring and more weight, compared to the blue spring with little or no weight, or is my only concern to get to 8500 rpms? any help would be awesome!
You want to be at those rpm,s but.....make sure you don,t have the secondary too loose or too tight. Too tight will slow the upshift & heat up the clutches. Also too weak spring tension will slip the belt ; also causing heat. You want just enuff secondary tension so the belt will upshift with out slipping. For trail riding having a little too much secondary preload is better then too little. This also changes with snow conditions. It can drive a guy nuts getting it perfect...just get it close. You want to get rpm,s as close as possible by playing around with the primary weights & spring Then fine tune the secondary playing with helix, springs & different tensions.
Millinocket Rocket
New member
thanks for the reply turk- when i tightened up the secondary i jumped 2 holes and it doesn't seem to be upshifting as fast, that's why i thought i may be able to back it off 1- might not have needed to go 2. if i'm running the softer blue primary spring with no or little weight and can't get rpms up to 8500, will that mean i need to go to a stiffer -red or gray spring- and add weight from there?
I just did one of these set ups for madmatt on here, I used the red primary spring, you need to add heel weight to get your engagement down, try 4 to 5 washers, 1-lock washer and long bolt in the heel, nothing in the center hole of weight, and then long bolt and 2 washers in the tip. For the rearclutch with the heel x roller, you need a silver yamaha secondary spring at 70-80 twist((70)this is 6 on helix and 1 in clutch or (80) is 6 on helix and 2 in clutch. Make sure your belt deflection is set correctly, belt should just barely ride out past the edges of seacondary clutch, if its down under the edge, its too loose, if its too tight, it will squeel like a baby pig, with the sled up on a jacksatnd, and engine idling, it should just barely turn the track or jerk it slightly forward.
set it up like this and post what rpms are, we can dial it right in off that information, pay attention to the tach!!
set it up like this and post what rpms are, we can dial it right in off that information, pay attention to the tach!!
Millinocket Rocket
New member
thanks mrviper-- i will try that setup. i've got 2 washers in the heel right now, and was kid of leary about adding more for fear of loosening them. i'll have to put locktite in everything once i get dialed in. and the clutch alignment and center to center is good. the belt was sitting too low so i adjusted it to a hair above and the track jerks along on stand. i'll try it out and get back to ya!!
Listen to Don
I am still running the green secondary at 80 and I do sometimes get a little overshift. Have not tried the silver yet. By the way, I am also running the straight 38. Good luck.
Matt
I am still running the green secondary at 80 and I do sometimes get a little overshift. Have not tried the silver yet. By the way, I am also running the straight 38. Good luck.
Matt
Millinocket Rocket
New member
thanks matt
Millinocket Rocket
New member
anybody want to buy a set of hammertimes? did some wfo lake runs this morning. i left the secondary at 90 w/stock spring cause i couldn't come up with a silver spring in time, tried the primary with red spring, 6.2g heel, middle hole empty, 3.2 in tip and could only pull 7500 rpm's. then tried red spring, 2 holes empty, 6.2 in heel- 7700 rpm's. went back to blue spring 2 holes empty, 6.2 heel, and barely got to 8000 and 95mph. my buddy was trying to get a set of regular heelclickers from a viper to work in his 02 sxr 600 and wasn't getting his rpm's up either- around 8000 with the red spring, heel loaded up, and the other 2 holes empty. his problem ended up being another issue. so just for the hell of it i said let's switch clutches. we switched and bang-- mine shot right up to 8600-102mph and stayed right there. his sled was worse than before with my clutch on it. so we just couldn't get the hammertimes to pull high enough rpm's. so thanks for the help- i ended up keeping the reg. heelclickers in mine and put his back to stock for now also open to suggestions on a clutch kit for an sxr 600. so thanks for the help guys 
rocket, with your reg clickers, what rollers are you using? your top speed seems low, if im reading it right.
Millinocket Rocket
New member
btv-- using stock rollers and stock gearing. i may have been able to get a little more out of her if i held it longer. what i should have said was the rpm's were staying right there at 8600- speedo was at 102mph when i let off. why, should i be using different rollers?
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15.5 rollers with alot of tip weight, near nothing in the middle
14.5 rollers make the weights loose force as they shift out, the larger rollers lesson this effect greatly,
14.5 rollers make the weights loose force as they shift out, the larger rollers lesson this effect greatly,
Millinocket Rocket
New member
great- thanks for the tip. i might just have to give that a try. will this change engagement any?
I know I have posted this a 100 times but it never seems to be applied, when someone gives you a clutch set up, you need to do it 100 percent the way its set up, you cant use this part and not that part and expect it to work, by deciding not to use the secondary spring,helix angles, whatever, you are NEVER going to get the correct result!
its no wonder why it was low on rpm, with the stock red spring its too soft, its overshifting and never recovering with a roller secondary on the back!!
Its the same as ripping 1st gear in a 5.0 mustang then shifting to 4th from 1st, never gonna recover from the torq loss and low rpm will be the result!
its no wonder why it was low on rpm, with the stock red spring its too soft, its overshifting and never recovering with a roller secondary on the back!!
Its the same as ripping 1st gear in a 5.0 mustang then shifting to 4th from 1st, never gonna recover from the torq loss and low rpm will be the result!
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Millinocket Rocket
New member
mr viper -- i did not use the silver secondary spring because i couldn't come up wth one in a couple of hours and it was the only day i had to do any tuning- so i had to run what i had. and i was under the impression you're supposed to achieve target rpm's with the primary weights - then control the shift with the secondary spring. so i said what the hell- i have to go with what i've got. i plan on getting the silver, i went to the yammy dealer today and asked for a silver sec. spring, and they said which one- y-s-y, g-s-g, w-s-w, etc. and i said i'll have to get back to you on that. they don't even stock them anyways. i understand what you're saying about the soft spring upshifting too fast not letting the rpm's up enough, but i had it wrapped at 90- that's still too soft? and it didn't seem to be upshifting too fast- like it was when it was wrapped at 80. i was just getting frustrated w/the hammertimes, popped on the other clutch w/reg heelclickers and bang- right up to 8600. i really respect your input and you definitely have some of the best and most informative posts on this site- just bear with me and i WILL try your setup exactly as you said. i thought the sec. spring color was just one color, not g-s-g, w-s-w, etc.?
exactly which silver spring is it? is it yammy or aftermarket?
exactly which silver spring is it? is it yammy or aftermarket?
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the part number is -(90508-556A7-00) yamaha silver SECONDARY spring
you may want to ask the dealer if he knows what a secondary spring is, he asked you the colors for the primary clutch spring....lol.
all the parts must match, if you have no tension in the rear clutch, it will simply upshift, overshift and just lug the motor and do nothing but make noise.
you may want to ask the dealer if he knows what a secondary spring is, he asked you the colors for the primary clutch spring....lol.
all the parts must match, if you have no tension in the rear clutch, it will simply upshift, overshift and just lug the motor and do nothing but make noise.
Millinocket Rocket
New member
you may want to ask the dealer if he knows what a secondary spring is, he asked you the colors for the primary clutch spring....lol.
that's what i thought- he actually asked me- primary or secondary? and i know i told him secondary
that's what i thought- he actually asked me- primary or secondary? and i know i told him secondary