Tips for use with h/c weights:
1.) use 15 or 15.6 rollers-I know, you wanna know why now,- you cant simply hook up the smaller rollers, they explode with too much low end and it is about impossible to get traction, and its a much better shift curve with the larger rollers. You run more weight in the arms with bigger rollers!
2.) Use red primary spring only, 230/360 rate, its the only spring that allows you to run any amount of weight in the arms so to make the h/c advantageous to use.The softer springs simply just dont produce the performance without the enabling of weight in the arms.
3.) If your running a srx or viper with stock pipe at 8500rpm, then you want to use alot of heel weight and tip weight only, leave the middle hole empty, this allows you to tune in the engagement, and keep the top end of the sled, by using the middle hole it slows down the response from the engine and ruins the shift curve.
4.) you need a shallow finsih angle to use h/c's anything from a 50'ish start to a 34 finish works good, some of the common helix I use all the time are: 50/36, 48/34, 48/36, 49/36, you get the idea, stay shallow on the finish and it will pull very respctable topend and allows you to run lots of tip weight, so now your hanging onto the belt in both the primary and the secondary. The h/c weights already act like a progressive angle helix, so your not gonna be up in the big helix start/finish angles now. A shallow finish does 2 things it clamps the belt harder in the secondary and does not require as much spring tension from the secondary spring because of this, by using only enough rear secondary spring tension it will allow the sled to run faster on topend, you only want to control the shift with the rear spring tension, not over power it!
5.)Moving onto the piped sleds, sxr, viper , etc sleds that run over 8600rpms, I am talking in the neighborhod of 8800-9100rpm, this pretty much covers all the pipes out there. You want to run as much heel weight as the motor will pull without bogging it down, then you will use a slight amount of weight in the CENTER hole, and leaving the TIP empty. The reason is this, when its piped its has a narrower torq/power band most of the time and when its shifted hard it has a hard time to recover before being brought down back into the meat of the power curve. Its alot like ripping a std shift 5.0 mustang, you side step the clutch at 6000rpm, and the tires are burning, you keep the gas mashed and then you shift to 2nd, car is starting to move out very quickly, then you shift to 5th, the motor will bog and just make noise, has no real pull to it, takes along time and distance to recover from the overshift. When you have pipes on a sled, this becomes more evident.
6.) In some applications I run 5,6,7 washers in the heel to get the clutch to hang onto the belt, this gives you a nice low engagement and really hangs onto the belt for a super good holeshot, will stretch your arms. stay around 4000rpm for snow. I also sometimes run the long bolt and 3-4 washers on the tip, the only thing you have to do is watch the clearance to the spider, it sometimes requires you to simply just face off the bolt slightly on the rounded head on a grinder to clear the spider sides, easy to check, just swing the weight thru its cycle without the primary spring in it.
This is the basic things to do, you have to test, retest, test, to get it fine tuned, but h/c's work very well and I use them all the time. I have not found any weights that are close to the same kind of clamping power other then the supertips that srxspec sells are equally good, I am working with them now, they show great potential. I have set up enough sleds that I can just about guess to within a 1-200rpm range of what will work, these weights work!!, but you have to follow some of these guidelines, or youll be pulling your hair out !
1.) use 15 or 15.6 rollers-I know, you wanna know why now,- you cant simply hook up the smaller rollers, they explode with too much low end and it is about impossible to get traction, and its a much better shift curve with the larger rollers. You run more weight in the arms with bigger rollers!
2.) Use red primary spring only, 230/360 rate, its the only spring that allows you to run any amount of weight in the arms so to make the h/c advantageous to use.The softer springs simply just dont produce the performance without the enabling of weight in the arms.
3.) If your running a srx or viper with stock pipe at 8500rpm, then you want to use alot of heel weight and tip weight only, leave the middle hole empty, this allows you to tune in the engagement, and keep the top end of the sled, by using the middle hole it slows down the response from the engine and ruins the shift curve.
4.) you need a shallow finsih angle to use h/c's anything from a 50'ish start to a 34 finish works good, some of the common helix I use all the time are: 50/36, 48/34, 48/36, 49/36, you get the idea, stay shallow on the finish and it will pull very respctable topend and allows you to run lots of tip weight, so now your hanging onto the belt in both the primary and the secondary. The h/c weights already act like a progressive angle helix, so your not gonna be up in the big helix start/finish angles now. A shallow finish does 2 things it clamps the belt harder in the secondary and does not require as much spring tension from the secondary spring because of this, by using only enough rear secondary spring tension it will allow the sled to run faster on topend, you only want to control the shift with the rear spring tension, not over power it!
5.)Moving onto the piped sleds, sxr, viper , etc sleds that run over 8600rpms, I am talking in the neighborhod of 8800-9100rpm, this pretty much covers all the pipes out there. You want to run as much heel weight as the motor will pull without bogging it down, then you will use a slight amount of weight in the CENTER hole, and leaving the TIP empty. The reason is this, when its piped its has a narrower torq/power band most of the time and when its shifted hard it has a hard time to recover before being brought down back into the meat of the power curve. Its alot like ripping a std shift 5.0 mustang, you side step the clutch at 6000rpm, and the tires are burning, you keep the gas mashed and then you shift to 2nd, car is starting to move out very quickly, then you shift to 5th, the motor will bog and just make noise, has no real pull to it, takes along time and distance to recover from the overshift. When you have pipes on a sled, this becomes more evident.
6.) In some applications I run 5,6,7 washers in the heel to get the clutch to hang onto the belt, this gives you a nice low engagement and really hangs onto the belt for a super good holeshot, will stretch your arms. stay around 4000rpm for snow. I also sometimes run the long bolt and 3-4 washers on the tip, the only thing you have to do is watch the clearance to the spider, it sometimes requires you to simply just face off the bolt slightly on the rounded head on a grinder to clear the spider sides, easy to check, just swing the weight thru its cycle without the primary spring in it.
This is the basic things to do, you have to test, retest, test, to get it fine tuned, but h/c's work very well and I use them all the time. I have not found any weights that are close to the same kind of clamping power other then the supertips that srxspec sells are equally good, I am working with them now, they show great potential. I have set up enough sleds that I can just about guess to within a 1-200rpm range of what will work, these weights work!!, but you have to follow some of these guidelines, or youll be pulling your hair out !
Last edited:
Yamanewf
New member
What about the npv 600 and 700 engines?
**sj**
Life Member
vip....very informative.....I assume you are referring to the new clickers ...
question....how do you run 5,6,7 washers in the heel and still clear the pocket?
also...what's your impression on his roller unit like the hc-x with something like a 42/34?
...had a 99 srx with Aaen triples,bender cold air kit and the old heel clickers, and it ran great..I have a 2000 srx now with the new clickers and a speed sheave and it runs out of steam at about 85-90mph....have a dark ring on the primary about an inch below the top!....worse than the stock sheave? btw geared down one tooth on the little and running the stock track
question....how do you run 5,6,7 washers in the heel and still clear the pocket?
also...what's your impression on his roller unit like the hc-x with something like a 42/34?
...had a 99 srx with Aaen triples,bender cold air kit and the old heel clickers, and it ran great..I have a 2000 srx now with the new clickers and a speed sheave and it runs out of steam at about 85-90mph....have a dark ring on the primary about an inch below the top!....worse than the stock sheave? btw geared down one tooth on the little and running the stock track
On the newer 2nd and 3rd generation h/c 40-10y,b weights the heel never goes into a pocket so you could add as much as you can and it wont hit anything. Its the first gen ones that you needed to notch the sheave for clearance. When running alot of weight in the tip, you sometimes need to just lightly face the bolt, so it clears the inside of the spider, just be sure to leave enough of it to fit the allen wrench in to remove the bolt at a later time if needed.
The speed sheave is a problem, you have 2 differnt sheave angles trying to clamp the belt. They dont offer anything over the stock sheaves and the correct gearing/clutching.
your lack of topspeed is most likely due to the incorrect helix angles,sec. spring selection and twist. Read the original post,#4, I give you some helix ideas and explain the tip weight placement for very good topend as well.
I just set up one of madmatts viper from this site with h/c's and a heel x secondary, ask him how its working for him.
The speed sheave is a problem, you have 2 differnt sheave angles trying to clamp the belt. They dont offer anything over the stock sheaves and the correct gearing/clutching.
your lack of topspeed is most likely due to the incorrect helix angles,sec. spring selection and twist. Read the original post,#4, I give you some helix ideas and explain the tip weight placement for very good topend as well.
I just set up one of madmatts viper from this site with h/c's and a heel x secondary, ask him how its working for him.
**sj**
Life Member
I'm gunna owe ya
Vip...the machine is a 2000 srx....has one of those 911 clutch covers and a speed sheave...(I need to figure how to get that off and the new one on...dont have the tool!)...second machine with the sheave and both have had problems with...
as to the secondary....running the 42/34 with a green spring...ran at 70% and 80 %...
pull's hard till about 75 then stops even though the rpm's seem right....at 80% the belt can be slipping can it? maybe it's slipping in the primary from the lack of clamping force due to the different angles?
Vip...the machine is a 2000 srx....has one of those 911 clutch covers and a speed sheave...(I need to figure how to get that off and the new one on...dont have the tool!)...second machine with the sheave and both have had problems with...
as to the secondary....running the 42/34 with a green spring...ran at 70% and 80 %...
pull's hard till about 75 then stops even though the rpm's seem right....at 80% the belt can be slipping can it? maybe it's slipping in the primary from the lack of clamping force due to the different angles?
940ken
Member
MINES LIKE MADMATT'S IT ROCKS!! MR. VIPER KNOWNS HIS $H!T . : 
dmaxx
Member
In what applications can you run the long bolt and 4 washers in the tip to keep rpms right on? I have only 5.3 grams in the tip with a 48/34 and run @8500 rpms on my stock Viper. I run the secondary @70 with the green spring because it lost rpms @60. I also tried the red secondary spring @90 that you suggested earlier this year, but it would run at 8400 and fall to 8100 rpms. sj, I have found that gearing down with h/c's does'nt work for me. I think it keeps the sled in low ratio too long without steady accelleration.
**sj**
Life Member
thanks dmaxx...I've been running a speed sheave...and I think it may be the culprit with the clickers..
a srx pulls more tip weight with a empty middle hole then a stock pipe viper, on a single pipe viper I run a little bit of weight in the middle hole along with the tip, this is one of the few sleds I do this on, usually always run middle empty.
Also theres alot of varibles that change the amount of rear spring twist each of you have to use, wet snow, heavier rider, alot of traction will all need more twist. Dry powder snow,light riders, long distance runs for radar or whatever will see faster times and speeds with less tension in the secondary. this is one thing that will be differnt for everyones sleds and riding styles.
SJ, I would think your most likely slipping the belt in the primary from the speed sheave. The rear clutch is hanging on the belt pretty good and then this causes the front to slip and leave the black rubber marks you have there 3/4 way up, put stock sheave back on and retest, and we can dial it in from there.
Also theres alot of varibles that change the amount of rear spring twist each of you have to use, wet snow, heavier rider, alot of traction will all need more twist. Dry powder snow,light riders, long distance runs for radar or whatever will see faster times and speeds with less tension in the secondary. this is one thing that will be differnt for everyones sleds and riding styles.
SJ, I would think your most likely slipping the belt in the primary from the speed sheave. The rear clutch is hanging on the belt pretty good and then this causes the front to slip and leave the black rubber marks you have there 3/4 way up, put stock sheave back on and retest, and we can dial it in from there.
Last edited:
quebec#1
New member
I have the same problem,I cant seem to pull enough rpm's. I had the secondary spring at a 60 twist and was only pulling 8300 with the twist at 80 it pulled more like 8500. Im sold that the viper's needs to pull at least 8700 to perform well in all conditions. Anything less and top speed is lost. I have a old snowtech hp chart and it show that the viper makes top hp's at 8700. at 8400 it make only 116 hp at 8600 and 8700 it makes 120 to 122 hp.dmaxx said:
Ive decreased the grams in my heelclickers to 3 grams in the tip and 3 grams in the heel and left the middle empty.
I think my helix 48/40 is to agressive. ?.
The only thing with more twist is i find that their is more track spinand less hook up.
I need a day to just fine tune my set up.
time to put this at the top, I have been getting countless pm's on h/c's
INLINE4
New member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 260
I have a 1995 V-Max 600 LT w/speed track (9811R) 224 chissils...It has a race ported 700 BB from Hauck w/GYT Twin pipes..It is to run at @8250 RPM's. I have the gray spring in the clutch w/14.5mm rollers and 3 washers on the tip, holes empty...45/41 helix so far...Any input ??
highline
New member
hey mr viper what do you know about 01 mm setups?
inline4, what do you mean by holes empty? is it you have 3 washers on heel? both middle and tip empty?? Im not getting what you described, sorry
Also with 14.5 rollers your gonna have a tough time trying to get the sled to leave good without spin, even if you run 240 studs, been there tried it, and the other thing that can happen with 14.5 rollers is the heel with alot of weight added with washers can touch the inside sheave when shifted out and it makes the clutch come apart, so be carefull. I like to run 15 or 15.6 rollers as it raises the engagement speed and allows you to run more weight in the weights themselves. The larger roller not only raises the engagement but the shift speed rpm as well.
what are ya gonna do with the sled??, sounds like a drag racer?
have you run it yet and know what it does rpm wise??
Also with 14.5 rollers your gonna have a tough time trying to get the sled to leave good without spin, even if you run 240 studs, been there tried it, and the other thing that can happen with 14.5 rollers is the heel with alot of weight added with washers can touch the inside sheave when shifted out and it makes the clutch come apart, so be carefull. I like to run 15 or 15.6 rollers as it raises the engagement speed and allows you to run more weight in the weights themselves. The larger roller not only raises the engagement but the shift speed rpm as well.
what are ya gonna do with the sled??, sounds like a drag racer?
have you run it yet and know what it does rpm wise??
Is there similar rate spring available OEM than HC red? Is Hauck orange even close?
Srxspec
Your #1 performance shop!
Spring forces in pounds.
Grey- 230/330
Red- 230/360
Blue- 190/300
White- 170/300
Grey- 230/330
Red- 230/360
Blue- 190/300
White- 170/300
Last edited:
I understand that Red spring has 360lbs finish force but can't understand that 230? Can't be pre-load?
**sj**
Life Member
initial force or preload it is
INLINE4
New member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 260
Both middle and tip holes empty..No screws...Did not get the sled out yet.Everything is new...Just waiting for ice...I'll look for bigger rollers...But is the gray spring ok..?? Also this sled will be a dedicated lake racer...I'am calling it the "MONGOSE" to beat up on some Vipers....Thanx for any input...mrviper700 said:
grey will upshift a little bit faster then red and if your not worried about a trail application you can keep the grey in, I would try and get your engagement speed to around 5000-5500 for drag racing, you may need to notch the beginning of the weight, I can show you a pic of what they look like.
try and run heel weight till the motor loses response, then move out to the middle hole and tips, I would try and possibly load the center and not much on the tip if its a short drag race, as your not gonna spend alot of time on the tip unless its a long run, is this 500-660ft we are talking about or longer??, the length willl determine how you set up the middle and tip holes.
try and run heel weight till the motor loses response, then move out to the middle hole and tips, I would try and possibly load the center and not much on the tip if its a short drag race, as your not gonna spend alot of time on the tip unless its a long run, is this 500-660ft we are talking about or longer??, the length willl determine how you set up the middle and tip holes.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.