Canuck
New member
I've seen this posted before and never really got a clear message as to what most are doing with their chaincase bearing seals.
I just had a bearing go that was sealed on both sides. It had about 1,000 km on it, it was the first one that I have ever had fail. It was on my wifes sled and I'm lucky that my son was driving it because he stopped right away. I'm considering leaving the bearings open to the oil as I replace my chaincase lube on a regular basis.
I just had a bearing go that was sealed on both sides. It had about 1,000 km on it, it was the first one that I have ever had fail. It was on my wifes sled and I'm lucky that my son was driving it because he stopped right away. I'm considering leaving the bearings open to the oil as I replace my chaincase lube on a regular basis.
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daman
New member
Canuck said:
Usally the bearings in a chain case are open on both sides..but the inner
case halfs have a removeable seal so the oil don't run out...
Canuck
New member
daman said:
For quite a few years now Yamaha has been installing them sealed to the chaincase oil and open on the back towards the chaincase seal. I think the theory is to keep contaminated chaincase oil out of the bearings.
daman
New member
Canuck said:
Hmmm...i just did my '98 and '95 VM and i could have sworn they where
open on both sides or just the back half hmmm...damn memory
Exciterfan
Member
Take the seal off that faces the chaincase lube, and change the lube at the start of each season. Run synthetic Lube. Keep the seal on that faces the drive seal.
History has shown that these bearings will last longer than the clutch side bearings even with the contamination they see from the chain etc. You can maker them last even longer by changing the chain lube every year!!!
Cheers,
Exciterfan
History has shown that these bearings will last longer than the clutch side bearings even with the contamination they see from the chain etc. You can maker them last even longer by changing the chain lube every year!!!
Cheers,
Exciterfan
daman
New member
I've never had a bearing fail..
Canuck
New member
daman said:
It's my first one.
I had the sled apart to replace the jackshaft bearing because I could feel movement in it....12,000km. When I had it apart I changed the front driveaxle bearings, speedo and chaincase, along with the bottom seal....just because it was apart.
nodoo_s
New member
i just did mine and took the seal off away from the chaincase oil but left the one on facing the chaincase oil. small amounts of oil will get through the splines on the shaft enough to get lube to the back side of the bearing while still keeping crap out. yamaha specs it this way for a reason. you will also get more oil moving around on the back side to help keep your seal a little wet. just my 2 cents
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No doo s is exactly right, the oil will be drawn in thru the seal to outer race and inner race contact, small amounts of oil are drawn in and this keeps the bearing lubed and small amount of lube to keep the inner driveshaft seal from burning up, this is why they run the backside(closest to drive cogs) non sealed, the seal on the shaft/chaincase inner keeps the water and contaminates from the bearings. If you ran a double sided sealed bearing, your smoking the chaincase seal and it will then let water in there and once that happens and freezes, presto cracked chaincase. the seal on the chain side is sealed to keep metal filings from the chain/gears wearing from contaminating the bearing and cause premature wear.
Canuck
New member
I can see using a seal on the oil side to prevent the contaminated oil from getting into the bearing.
I could be wrong and will stand corrected if I am but I really can't see oil being drawn through the seal or past the splines being counted on for lubrication. The seal is designed to keep liquid out. The shaft seal collar, bearing and sprocket are all stacked and there really isn't a path for the oil either.
I would tend to think that Yamaha is relying on the prelubrication of the bearing and the installer lubricating the axle seal at the time of installation. If any oil does get through it's a bonus but I can't see them counting on it. I've taken more than a few of these apart and I've never found oil on the backside of the bearing when the seal was intact.
I could be wrong and will stand corrected if I am but I really can't see oil being drawn through the seal or past the splines being counted on for lubrication. The seal is designed to keep liquid out. The shaft seal collar, bearing and sprocket are all stacked and there really isn't a path for the oil either.
I would tend to think that Yamaha is relying on the prelubrication of the bearing and the installer lubricating the axle seal at the time of installation. If any oil does get through it's a bonus but I can't see them counting on it. I've taken more than a few of these apart and I've never found oil on the backside of the bearing when the seal was intact.
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wow, thats funny, I just changed the track on a 99 srx yesterday, it had oil coming out the seal when I popped it out, thats chaincase lube trapped between the sealed side and the chaincase seal............ the oil is drawn thru the seal/bearing edges and this keeps the seal in the chaincase from running dry, it doesnt need lubed like the bearing ,a little goes a long way here, its just a seal riding on the shaft. I will give you a little in front of your eyes thing to try so you can see first hand that oil will go past a seal, simply find a old idler wheel bearing, get one that spins kinda ruff, simply spray wd40 on the outside of the bearing seal and spin the wheel while you do it, I bet youll find it will loosen the wheel bearing right up and show you that those seals are not leak proof, they are not designed to be. I dont seem to understand why everyone tries to out think the yamaha engineers, if they knew a double sided sealed bearing was better wouldnt they have installed it ???
your entitled to your own opinion,its America!!
your entitled to your own opinion,its America!!
daman
New member
mrviper700 said:
Hmmm.....this is a '97 Phazer that i'm changing the track on,why are the
bearings open to the oil then,,this is all stock never been opened up before.
my 98 and 95 vm are like this too.
Are Phazers different then???
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ya, thats the old style
daman
New member
mrviper700 said:
Ok..thanks
Canuck
New member
mrviper700 said:
Probably have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not trying to out think the Yamaha engineers just trying to understand the logic behind it. I am also aware that they sometimes compromise. It would be interesting to hear from someone from Yamaha on this. It seems by the pole that most are not doing it the way that Yamaha recommends.
I picked up my seals and bearings today and spoke with a bearing rep. His opinion was that you would be best to be open to the oil (if you did regular oil changes) and sealed on the backside. He also said that the area between the outer shaft seal and the seal on the bearing (which ever side it is on) is an air lock. He said this method is sometimes used on heavy equipment and the airlock would work to prevent anything from entering that space from either side. You also end up with seal redundency which is a good thing should one of them fail.
I agree that WD40 (solvent based) will work its way past a worn seal. But will 75W90 gear lube work it's way past a new seal?
Does anyone know what the other manufacturers are doing?
I love all the engineers we have on here... yet they all drive milk trucks for a living!! I would contact yamaha and tell them you know better then them, heck.. better yet, start producing snowmobiles...... I am sure you have all the answers and a "better " way to do things........... LMAO!!!!
do a check and use gear oil, I believe your going to be slightly upset to see the oil will go in the bearing and make it quiet again......................
I am still laughing about the "airlock" section of your post....lmao, now we are working on aircraft.......maybe its really a space shuttle! Take out the seal in the chaincase/driveshaft, I think youll find gear lube to run out of the space where your airlock is.....but how could that be with a seal on the side of the bearing.........
do a check and use gear oil, I believe your going to be slightly upset to see the oil will go in the bearing and make it quiet again......................
I am still laughing about the "airlock" section of your post....lmao, now we are working on aircraft.......maybe its really a space shuttle! Take out the seal in the chaincase/driveshaft, I think youll find gear lube to run out of the space where your airlock is.....but how could that be with a seal on the side of the bearing.........
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after I reread that post I may have come off a little strong. If I did and it upsets you, i apologize but I am only telling you valid information. I work on these sleds for a living, I know what comes out of the area behind the "seal", I am just amazed at how people constantly try to outhink the engineers that built these things. They(yamaha) do testing on these sleds 4-5 years before you ever see them for production, example the rx1 was being tested when they just released the 98/99 srx700. I would tend to think yamaha looks at all aspects of these machine and makes the best decisions for you and me. The early sleds had no seals on the bearings, they changed that, and I would have to say for a reason, the 97 up proaction chassis used sealed on 1 side bearings on the lower, if there was a glitch it would have been addressed by now dont ya think??
hey if it floats your boat, dont run any seals, its your sled. Dont take this too serious, I love a good debate!!
hey if it floats your boat, dont run any seals, its your sled. Dont take this too serious, I love a good debate!!
Canuck
New member
mrviper700 said:
It's always nice to carry on a mature discussion. When someone doesn't agree with your unsubstantiated opinion just resort to being childish. No, I'm not an engineer are you? Although I did spend 12 years in industrial maintenance and NDT and held certificates in power transmission. I don't pretend to know everything but I do question how and why things are done. I don't work in industry anymore, nor do I drive a milk truck.
mrviper700 said:
Actually a few years back I did contact Yamaha about the jackshafts on Vmax-4's and questioned the design. I stated that I felt it would be a good idea based on problems with the design to shim the jackshaft to align it. The technical service rep didn't have an answer and went back to engineeering. The response I received was, "our engineer stated we don't do that but said it would be a really good idea and suggested a tolerance of 1mm"......never mentioned anything about laughing.
mrviper700 said:
I have already done a check, new bearing, RS seal, gear oil, and no apparent seepage yet. Then again you should take into consideration the type of seal that is on the bearing, there are different types available. I haven't tried it with a non-contact seal.
mrviper700 said:
Obviously you know more than someone who deals with bearings and seals for a living.
You replied a second time before I was finished my post. I'm really not debating just looking for an answer and what others are doing. No apology is necessary, I'm just a little disappointed with some of your responses.
My opinion is - it's reasonable to me that Yamaha would seal the bearing to the oil to prevent contamination because most don't change their oil. Add frequent oil changes into the picture and the fact that it's generally accepted that the best form of bearing lubrication is an oil bath then it makes sense to me to open up the seal to the oil.
Like I said sometimes we have to agree to disagree.....Cheers!
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