Carbon Fiber Clutches?

jaysV-MaxSx700canada said:
there will be force without the wheights, im saying the clutch wheights are calibrated to control this, You would have to have pretty heavy wheights to ingage a carbon clutch and i dont think it would be able to hold up to the whieght.

the whieghts are calibrated to control the activation point without them the movable sheeve will still want to close, its just physics, but at a much higher rpm.
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Yes you're right the weights ARE calibrate to contol the engagement and shift characteristics of the CVT but without those weights there is NOTHING providing force to the rollers to make it move. I'm very curious as to what you think will be providing linear force on the moveable sheave as a result of the centrifugal force acting on it? That is the job of ONLY the weights and rollers, and absolutely WILL NOT take place without them.
 
Centrifical force will pull the sheeve out and will pull inline with the sheeve, think of a helicopter's blades they bend upwards in the shape of a smile from centrifical force and most are made from carbon and a honeycomb core.

I think this is going to be a never ending arguement, but bootom line unless you have $50000 to invest in a clutch it wont happen, I would start with covers on the secondary, I think i will make a set this winter and see how it turns out. should shave some whieght. I was thinking of making a whole tunnel, hood and airbox for fun but i dont have the time at the moment and just sold my sled.
 
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jaysV-MaxSx700canada said:
Centrifical force will pull the sheeve out and will pull inline with the sheeve, think of a helicopter's blades they bend upwards in the shape of a smile from centrifical force and most are made from carbon and a honeycomb core.
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Jay, Heli Blades don't just automatically have lift... They have to be articulated mechaically to force the air in the direction that the air is wanted to go. Airplane wings are just a lil different they are designed to create a low pressure center above the wing to help the wing have lift. All shieves need to be mechanically engaged using some sort of mechanical force, and the only wat to counteract the mechanical weight is to use a spring. Maybe I missed somthin' :dunno: T
 
Off the clutch topic, I don't want to get into that one :bump: but here's a site that makes carbon A-arms and they are over 1500 bucks a set.
I would think a clutch would be substantially more. :dunno:
http://www.carbonsled.com/
 
I'm lost too bruce. I don't see why it would be any different as far as calibration is concerned.

7075 aluminum seems to be the answer to me.

you CAN'T just cut the wall thickness in half when going to titanium, it doesn't work like that, the forice decreases at a square of the distance, so it'd actually be more like 2/4 of the distance with the titanium, so now it's 10lbs stock aluminum, 16lbs titanium same size, 12lbs titanium with ammended wall thickness.

carbon is flexible, it's coefficient of friction increases with termperature, you'd have to pre-heat the clutches to have any grab first thing in the morning. Second. Carbon doesn't hold up to heat well, it grips great, but it also comes apart, you'd have a service interval on your nice new $5000 clutch of about a year.

how desperate are you?


good thread tho, I like to see tech stuff like this come up without it ending in a catfight.
 
Junior said:
how desperate are you?


good thread tho, I like to see tech stuff like this come up without it ending in a catfight.
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I am always looking for ways to take weight out of the sled so that is why I brought this thread up. My main question was how would it work as a material for this situation. Without starting another argument I am going to go and say it is not the right material for the job. It just is not a practical material for this use any way you look at it. The main reason I brought it up is because those clutches are so darn heavy. We are on the verge right now of droping 10 pounds out of the drive system alone with our belt drive system. We will be running an aluminum jackshaft with a modified brake (havent decided yet between drilling out a viper rotor or seeing if the 07 phazer rotors work on the SRX.) Then we are running the belt drive system entirely made from aluminum, then lastly we are going to be running an aluminum drive axel with a couple secrets to make it much stronger. Weight is our game!
 
just got this bad boy in the mail today. PEM's Hyperlite secondary made entirely out of alumnium. however does not feel light to me. i will have to put it on the scales and compare the weights. picked it up for under a 1/4 of what it is new and its the updated version as well, but may just end up selling it. if wanting to do carbon fiber, make some front braces out of it. the front round tube bumper and the front bumper would both be a good place to start. i'd leave the two aluminum braces as i would imagine they will absorb the impact better than the carbon would (inelastic deformation before plastic deformation, which is no good) if you could do a front bulkhead cross member integrated with some aluminum mounting points (where shocks bolt up) that would be pretty sweet as well. suckers pretty heavy in itself. i've seen this done on the carbon fiber rev's.
 

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2ooosrx said:
Last I remember from numbers, those hyperlite clutches were about 1-2 pounds heavier then the stock clutch. You can clarify this though.
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ya, like i said it does not feel lighter at all, but then again i don't have a stocker here to hold in other hand. i will weigh and post numbers.
 
Sxr700Bandit said:
Jay, Heli Blades don't just automatically have lift... They have to be articulated mechaically to force the air in the direction that the air is wanted to go. Airplane wings are just a lil different they are designed to create a low pressure center above the wing to help the wing have lift. All shieves need to be mechanically engaged using some sort of mechanical force, and the only wat to counteract the mechanical weight is to use a spring. Maybe I missed somthin' :dunno: T
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yes a airfoil, it works by air flowing over the top surface of the wing reaching the trailing edge of the wing in the same amount of time as the air flowing under the wing. The increased velocity of air over a surface designed to obtain a desirable reaction from the air produces lift.

helicopter blades use essentially long, narrow airfoils to produce lift, but that has nothing to do with what i said, I said the bend upwards becasue of centrifical force. Trust me on this im a aircraft mechanic. Centrifical force also cause props to twist.

I agree with every one when the say that the cluctch is engaged by a flywhieght mechanism, which is casued by centrifical force. but if there was no whieghts there would still be an outward force, maybe niot anough for the sheeves to close but its there, and alot of this would be lost with a carbon cluctch, there would have to be close to double the whieghts and a softer spring.

:postwhore
 
the force created by the clutch weight acts perpendicular (rectilinear) to the crankshaft whereas the work done by the sheeve is parallel to the crankshaft. true, if wound up to high rpms i'm sure it would move some, but its just something that would have to be played with to add a bit more weight, but no where near double. take a rod and put it through a disk and spin it back and forth between your hands... nothing happens. thats the clutch sheeve. but due to its irregular geometry there will be a very very small amount of force pulling it in one direction or the other. but again, only a very very small amount.
 
no no, I didn't mean to imply that you where desperate for it matt, just making a point. I also didn't mean to imply that anyone was fighting, quite the opposite infact, this is an awesome thread, keep it up everyone.
 
Junior said:
no no, I didn't mean to imply that you where desperate for it matt, just making a point. I also didn't mean to imply that anyone was fighting, quite the opposite infact, this is an awesome thread, keep it up everyone.
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WHY, I OTTA!? NYUK NYUK NYUK :)
 
I hate to say it but there is definately some wrong information going on here. Sxviper32 is right, and it needs to be understood that it is the FUNDAMENTAL DEFINITION of centrifugal force that it acts ONLY in a radial direction to the angular velocity. There is no component normal to the angular velocity, ONLY normal to the axis of rotation. Helicopter blades do not bend upward as a result of centrifugal force, they bend upwards as a result of material deflection caused by the normal force being applied to them as a result of being an airfoil. The deflection they undergo as a result of centrifugal force is a lengthening of the blades. The force of the low air pressure above the airfoil is what causes them to flex upward, in a direction parallel to the applied force on the bottom of the airfoil, parallel to the axis of rotation, and perpendicular to the centrifugal force.
 
I do agree with You and you are correct on your definition of centrifical force, but i was just taught that about blades at school allthough my teacher was heavy in the booze.
I spoke with a aerospace engineer at work about it and he said It occurs becasue of a chain of reactions caused by centrifical force and lift.

It would be amazing to see if this ever is done it would free up the motor alot and save alot of whieght but would be crazzy expensive, if it ever goes back down around $25 a yard i may give it a try, im just worried about strength, and imagine if it ever blew up carbon splinters to razer sharp little needles.

But in the meen time im gona work on brakes idlers, skis, ect....
 
if you're that worried about removing rotating mass, a gearbox would be a better system. especially since the gears are running around a 3" diameter, not a 9" diameter.
 
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