WHY do most people associate how CLEAN their powervalves are WITH what kind of 2 stroke oil they use???????? HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!!!! 1st...CARBON deposits are a byproduct of the combustion process.... MOISTURE is also a byproduct of combustion.... THERE ARE A HUNDRED different things going on in your 2 stroke motor that has to do with VOLUMETRIC efficiency... Volumetric efficiency is BASICALLY how much fuel is used to propel your BUTT on the sled!!! IT IS POSSIBLE to have the BEST OIL with the BEST DETERGENT PACKAGE and have ABSOLUTELY FILTHY powervalves!!!!! OIL that burns MORE COMPLETLY will have CLEANER LOOKING powervalves than oil that DOES NOT burn completely.. How does oil burn (you may ask).well,,,,,,its a REALLY LONG STORY!!!! CYLINDER temperatures have a lot to do with dirty powervalves,,DRIVING HABITS,,AMBIENT TEMPERATURE, JETTING, MOISTURE and HUMIDITY,,TRAIL CONDITIONS, FUEL QUALITY and ALCOHOL additives ALL have something to do with dirty powervalves!!!! OIL INJECTION ADJUSTMENT is CRITICAL!!!! Does ANYONE EVER check their adjustment?????? Does ANYONE EVER rejet their sleds???? Yamaha tunes sleds WAY RICH from the factory to aid in WARRANTY REPAIRS!!!!! Its a KNOWN FACT that you could take your BRAND NEW yamaha and get another 10+horsepower out of it by rejetting!!!! Here is a little help when looking at your dirty powervalves... WET LOOKING powervalves have a tendancy to attract MORE GUNK than dry looking powervalves... BUT,,, wet looking powervalves WILL CLEAN themselves BETTER than DRY POWERVALVES!!!! Is wet better????? YES AND NO..... Your motor will wear out faster with dry looking powervalves compared to the same motor with wet looking powervalves because the wet means that your oil isn't vaporizing as much.. is oil vaporization a good thing???? YES AND NO!!!! Vaporizing oil will make a sled FASTER than a sled that doesn't vaporize it's oil AS WELL,,,but there are jetting issues that have to be resolved and injection adjustments that have to be made!!!! ARE THERE ADDITIVES that make your powervalves look cleaner??? WHY YES THERE IS!!!!!! Do they slow down your sled and destroy other things????? YES THEY DO!!!!! Now considering that your powervalves are WET AND DIRTY.. Is that a good thing?????? From the standpoint of engine lLONGEVITY,,YES,,,its a GOOD THING!!!! From the standpoint on VOLUMETRIC efficiency and fuel mileage,,its a BAD THING form the EPA"s standpoint,, the unburned HYDROCARBONS are KILLING THE TREES!!!!!!(and the "tree huggers" too!!!!).... JUST SO YOU KNOW,,, CHANGING oil brands is less than 5% of the problem why you have dirty powervalves!!!!!! I have a racecar (73 challenger) andthere are OVER 100 different bits of information that you have to put into the laptop in order to get the car to be consistent.. a 1 degree change in ambient air temperature or a 1 percent change in RELATIVE AIR DENSITY will have an AMAZING EFFECT on how the car runs. (also the ET's). I DON'T KNOW WHO STARTED THE RUMOR or where it came from that dirty powervalves are SUCH A BAD THING????? Gary Oles nosboy
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I see clearly now, I think…Good write up…Now I run POLARIS syn oil, less smoke smell sweat and my buddy had some when I left mine at the truck, oops and never switched back to yamilub. I clean my valves every 1000-1500km’s…What types of brand do you run and why???
Viper_Guy
New member
Nos... you definately know what you are talking about... but I could only make it thru half your thread... the caps and punctuation makes it tough to read. Great info... but not everyone has your knowledge, relax my brutha... we're all friends.
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Synthetic oil (WHATEVER BRAND IT IS) is FAR SUPERIOR to conventional oil!!! YAMALUBE is made by CITGO and CITGO makes a DOZEN DIFFERENT BRANDS of 2 stroke oil and the KILLING part is that IT ALL comes out of the SAME TANK!!!! You can buy Texaco Havoline 2 stroke oil,,you could buy CITGO 2 stroke oil or you could buy BRAND X 2 stroke oil or YAMALUBE and it all comes from the SAME TANK!!!!! It was SHOCKING to me when My friend brought home a gallon of TEXACO 2 stroke oil (from his job) and gave it to me... It said TEXACO!!!!! He worked at CITGO on 39th & Cicero here in Chicago!!!!!!He told me that it came from the SAME TANK AS YAMALUBE!!!!! the bottle was cracked by the handle and they couldn't sell it!!!!! I learned a LOT about oil in the following years.....Since then, my friend (TOM) has passed away (god bless him) and I try to educate people on OIL!!!! There are a LOT of MISCONCEPTIONS out there and SO MANY people think that the OIL is completely responsible for their powervalves!!!! THE TRAIL CONDITIONS have WAY MORE to do with powervalve cleanliness than the oil does!!!! Personally, I use KLOTZ and I swear by that stuff!!! I've been using it for 25 YEARS without ANY oil related problems!!! Like I said before,,,,ANY SYNTHETIC oil SURPASSES conventional oil BIGTIME!!!!! As far as Automotive Petroleum institute (API services) read the posts out there on this forum.. That guy who writes those posts is either REAL SHARP or HE KNOWS WHERE to look on the internet!!! As long as YOUR BRAND oil surpasses the API specs for that motor,,, you have nothing to fear!!! Naturally,,higher specs USUALLY constitute BETTER OIL,,,,BUT,,,,, there are exceptions to that rule also!!!! A basic rule of thumb is,,, run the motor FAT and you will have dirty powervalves (cooler running motor),,, RUN the motor LEAN and your valves will look much cleaner (higher running temps) and your motor will produce MORE POWER,,BUT,,,, wear out sooner!!!!! WOULDNT you rather CLEAN UP the powervalves once a year and have that motor around for a long time THAN lean the motor out so it RUNS LIKE A RAPED APE and you have to rering every couple of years ???? have you priced a set of crank bearings for an SRX lately????? Maybe one of these days we can get into the BTU values of different 2 stroke oils (pretty interesting) and see WHICH oils actually produce horsepower compared to oils that actually REMOVE horsepower!!!! Lets say that a viper motor runs at a 50 to 1 oil fuel mixture.. (this spec is JUST FOR EXAMPLE)...a motor that produces 100HP at a 50 to 1 mixture,, will actually produce 85 HP at a 32 to 1 mixture... DIFFERENT oils burn differently!!!! I've heard REALLY GOOD THINGS about BLUE MARBLE oil from some people that I respect on this forum... I've heard other stories about YAMALUBE actually slowing down your sled!!!! It depends on WHO YOU TALK TO!!!! I used Yamalube,,,,(under protest),, and I wouldn't recommend it to ANYONE,, but there are guys who SWEAR on it!!! Their POWERVALVES are as SHINY as the BALD SPOTS on their FOREHEAD!!!!!! I just SHAKE MY BALD HEAD and LAUGH!!!! There are computer programs out there for drag racers that you could adapt to fit your sled's characteristics and come up with a LOT of GREAT information and see just how PATHETIC most of these guys out there really act!!! THEY SWEAR that it was the YAMALUBE that made their powervalves SPARKLE!!!!! I'm just trying to BUST THE MYTH!!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
I'd be willing to bet that VIPER 700 motors are about 14% volumetrically efficient... MOST of the "HEAT" is wasted out the exhaust.. Thats why 2 STROKE MOTORS absolutely LOVE turbocharging.. The Crankcase scavenging 2 stroke motor ABSOLUTELY LOVES having a MOUTHFUL of food RAMMED down its throat!!!!( WOW, I could go somewhere with this!!!) One of these days we'll get into BTU's and the whole HEAT PUMP theory,,,but,,,not today!!! gary Oles nosboy
ReaperSRX
Member
Always a good read from Nosboy. I will throw this out there......if fuel rather than oil is the major contributor in PV issues what's you take on Seafoam or Yamaha Ring Free?
n2oiroc
New member
i agree with nosboy about what causes buildup on valve. i do think different oils can lead to cleaner valves though. i usually prefer to run what i believe acts as a good lubricant first with corrosion protection second and clean valves as an afterthought.
Danger Dog
Member
I always thought it had alot to do with jetting. As the fuel oil mixture does not burn completely there for sticks to the valves. Also the guy who runs wide open most of the time will have cleaner valves as they are open. Just my thoughts.
ski
New member
nosboy said:
The volumetric efficiency of most performance 2stroke sleds is over 100% due to the exhaust reversion caused by the tuned pipe. I am not sure where the 14% number you have comes from or is it a typo? Also, all motors love turbo charging
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seca
New member
very informative!!i to thought it may have to do with jetting.
as far as the SEAFOAM and RING FREE is concerned ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL stuff!!!! Especially SEAFOAM!!!!! i haven't used ringfree,,,but,,I've heard a LOT of good things about it... When i say Volumetric efficiency,, you'd have to look it up in a engineering book to really understand exactly what i mean... Basically,,the amount of fuel that is needed to produce forward motion... ALMOST 70% of the fuel used in an INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine is WASTED out the exhaust pipe!!!! An IC engine is nothing more than a HEAT PUMP.. if you understand the theory,,you'd understand the volumetric efficiency theory thing!!!! its 7pm on Saturday night and I got US41 DRAGWAY on the brain tonight!!!!The challenger is looking to get into the SINGLE DIGITS tomorrow (wishful thinking!!!) BUT,,, I MUST give her a try......we'll talk more on monday!!! Gary Oles nosboy
ski
New member
I understand the theory just fine thanks. Volumetric efficiency is comparing an engines actual air flow to it's theoretical air flow capabilities and nothing else. If I'm not mistaken, the term you are looking for (how much of the fuel's expended energy goes into moving the vehicle) is called Thermal efficiency.
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I am talking about HOW efficient the engine is. How much of the fuel is being used to TURN THE TRACK .. ANY INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine usually gets around a 20% rating... Turbo's are MUCH HIGHER (around 38%) I don't know WHERE you got your education from,,but,, you'd better ask for your money back!!!! Gary Oles nosboy
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its called volumetirc efficiency....
ski
New member
http://www.auto-ware.com/combust_bytes/eng_sci.htm
or a million other web pages that say the same thing, education doesn't have to cost money.
or a million other web pages that say the same thing, education doesn't have to cost money.
That article is talking about something completely different than what i am taling about!!!! They are talking more about the displacement thing than volumetric efficiecy.. you'd better e mail him and tell him to go bact to school or QUIL writing BAD BOOKS!!!! I can shoot a BUNCH of holes in that article!!!
I cant type worth a crap today!!!!! I wonder whats that all about?????
ski
New member
I have typing issues at times too, it is hard to appear SMRT when you have spellign mistacks and poor syntax.
I am not trying to bust your balls by the way... I just thought I would offer some other info I thought was pertinent to the topic you started. As for the VE thing, we'll have to agree to disagree on that... Can we Agree that Yamaha kicks A$$??? BTW, it is about to dump 5 inches of snow here today.
I am not trying to bust your balls by the way... I just thought I would offer some other info I thought was pertinent to the topic you started. As for the VE thing, we'll have to agree to disagree on that... Can we Agree that Yamaha kicks A$$??? BTW, it is about to dump 5 inches of snow here today.