Hi!
Last Sunday my brother in law`s 1999 MM700 went for a dive in a lake, we got it out and this week I`ve been working on it to get it ready for this weekend.
On Wednesday I had it back in business and it run like a charm, pulled hard and rewed just as it should. Also rode it on Thursday, worked perfect.
On Saturday when we started the sled it ran crappy. Idled nice, just as if nothing was wrong, but if we tried rewing it, it would only hesitate and sometimes even wouldn`t move forward.
I pulled the carbs, found just a little water in the carbs, so I figured I had found the problem. Cleaned them and put them back on. No difference.
Then pulled the carbs again, I was clueless, wanted to make sure that the fuel pumpe was working. It was, fuel flows out of the lines when I pull it over.
Also heated the pump to make sure any ice would melt and get out.
However when I opened the float bowls, there was NO water what so ever.
I then put the carbs back on and also put in new sparkplugs. We also heated the flywheel area with a heatgun, you do the strangest things when you are clueless.
Then fired it up and it run somewhat better.
After riding around the cowhouse a few times I found out that it sometimes will rew just like it should, and sometimes it will hesitate and not rew over 6500-7000rpm, the problem kind of "varies".
I also checked comp just for the fun of it, 120PSI on all three.
Sparkplugs look OK.
I doubt that it`s sucking false air some where because they tend to bog if they suck false air, this isn`t a bog, more like a "restriction" of the rpm.
Here`s a video of how the sled runs:
www.pedersensnekkeri.net/mmtest.wmv
I`m really frustrated after having worked on the sled all week, was looking forward to pleasing my brother in law with a working sled, but then the sled runs crappy.
Oh btw. the sled did sit inside a heated trailer for two days before I got it home and started working on it. (did empty motor the same day we got it ouf the ice tho). I pulled gas tank, oil tank, blew through all lines, carbs, so there is no water left in the system. (shouldn`t be atleast).
Today we disconnected the electrical harness that goes up to the headlight/gauges, and the sled did run better, but still not perfect.
There was an obvious difference with the harness unplugged/connected.
But like I say, still didn`t rew up to 9000rpm like it should.
Any thoughts?.
I will be really greatful for any tips.
Thanks.
Joakim
Last Sunday my brother in law`s 1999 MM700 went for a dive in a lake, we got it out and this week I`ve been working on it to get it ready for this weekend.
On Wednesday I had it back in business and it run like a charm, pulled hard and rewed just as it should. Also rode it on Thursday, worked perfect.
On Saturday when we started the sled it ran crappy. Idled nice, just as if nothing was wrong, but if we tried rewing it, it would only hesitate and sometimes even wouldn`t move forward.
I pulled the carbs, found just a little water in the carbs, so I figured I had found the problem. Cleaned them and put them back on. No difference.
Then pulled the carbs again, I was clueless, wanted to make sure that the fuel pumpe was working. It was, fuel flows out of the lines when I pull it over.
Also heated the pump to make sure any ice would melt and get out.
However when I opened the float bowls, there was NO water what so ever.
I then put the carbs back on and also put in new sparkplugs. We also heated the flywheel area with a heatgun, you do the strangest things when you are clueless.
Then fired it up and it run somewhat better.
After riding around the cowhouse a few times I found out that it sometimes will rew just like it should, and sometimes it will hesitate and not rew over 6500-7000rpm, the problem kind of "varies".
I also checked comp just for the fun of it, 120PSI on all three.
Sparkplugs look OK.
I doubt that it`s sucking false air some where because they tend to bog if they suck false air, this isn`t a bog, more like a "restriction" of the rpm.
Here`s a video of how the sled runs:
www.pedersensnekkeri.net/mmtest.wmv
I`m really frustrated after having worked on the sled all week, was looking forward to pleasing my brother in law with a working sled, but then the sled runs crappy.
Oh btw. the sled did sit inside a heated trailer for two days before I got it home and started working on it. (did empty motor the same day we got it ouf the ice tho). I pulled gas tank, oil tank, blew through all lines, carbs, so there is no water left in the system. (shouldn`t be atleast).
Today we disconnected the electrical harness that goes up to the headlight/gauges, and the sled did run better, but still not perfect.
There was an obvious difference with the harness unplugged/connected.
But like I say, still didn`t rew up to 9000rpm like it should.
Any thoughts?.
I will be really greatful for any tips.
Thanks.
Joakim
Been surfing the forum all night and I`m now 100% sure that it`s an electrical issue.
Is there any special place I should look for wire rub through on this sled?.
Maybe I just should pull the engine and check the harness under it?.
Is there any special place I should look for wire rub through on this sled?.
Maybe I just should pull the engine and check the harness under it?.
jwiedmayer
New member
I read your other post as well. I'm leaning towards electrical also. But one other thing you might want to check Is your muffler ok? If it plugged you might get some strange engine performance also. Are the floats good? I mean when the water froze in the bowl they did not crack them did they?
revving = rewing!
revving = rewing!
The video was great, so much easier to help then someone just typing symtoms, I believe it to be electrical, the backfiring slightly is the loss of spark then respark when the fuel charge is out in the pipe. I would unhook all the connectors from the cdi,engine mag, everywhere and blow them out. I am also suspect to the pick up coil down below on the flywheel. Was it rusty on the flywheel after its swim? have you had the flywheel off and looked at the staotr, those can rust also. When you unhook the harness it must releive the power loss and run better, a chaffed harness is likely in any yamaha sled, go over the harness, and check all the plugs for water in them. Some ideas to start checking anyways.
Hi !
Thanks so much for the replies!.
jwiedmayer: I checked the float height on all carbs on Saturday, all where withing spec, 14.3mm or so. I also thought about the pipe, I will check it. Thanks for the tip!.
mrviper700: Glad you liked the video!. I can shoot some more if you`d like.
I`ve been thinking about this all day and my theory is that if something were wrong with the stator, the problem should be more "stabile" , since the coils and flywheel are stabile and can`t jump around. A wire with a rub through could move as the sled moves, making the problem come back and forth.
Or can a bad stator also cause an unstabile-problem?.
I haven`t pulled the flywheel since the sled went under water. I will pull it when I get the time. Nick - vibeline said he would send me the manual so I guess I will find specs for the charge coil and the pickup coil there.
I know the belt cover tells people not to run the engine without the belt, can it damage anything?. I don`t have a stand and it would be easier if I could test run it in the garage.
Gees I`m so qurious, hope I will find the source of this problem.
I`m really greatful for all the replies.
Thanks so much for the replies!.
jwiedmayer: I checked the float height on all carbs on Saturday, all where withing spec, 14.3mm or so. I also thought about the pipe, I will check it. Thanks for the tip!.
mrviper700: Glad you liked the video!. I can shoot some more if you`d like.
I`ve been thinking about this all day and my theory is that if something were wrong with the stator, the problem should be more "stabile" , since the coils and flywheel are stabile and can`t jump around. A wire with a rub through could move as the sled moves, making the problem come back and forth.
Or can a bad stator also cause an unstabile-problem?.
I haven`t pulled the flywheel since the sled went under water. I will pull it when I get the time. Nick - vibeline said he would send me the manual so I guess I will find specs for the charge coil and the pickup coil there.
I know the belt cover tells people not to run the engine without the belt, can it damage anything?. I don`t have a stand and it would be easier if I could test run it in the garage.
Gees I`m so qurious, hope I will find the source of this problem.
I`m really greatful for all the replies.
Last edited:
jwiedmayer
New member
Check the plug wire resistance if you can not find anything wrong with the harnesses.
moisture and we know it had more then enough of that, LOL can move around in a electrical device, the pulsar coil down there has braided wiring cover on it and I am curious if some water got in there and just shorts it out momentarily, its hard to say, water and electricty wont do anything stable and its anyones guess, start with connectors and see if the flywheel magnetes are rusted? also would check the stator magnets, they are inside the flywheel, when these rust they really screw up the signal, the magnetic field is all over the place.
jwiedmayer
New member
If its a single headlight sled here is the stator specs.
charge coil white-black .36+-10% @ 60 F'
Spark plug cap 5Kohms
Primary coil (across both coil wires) .18-.24 ohms
Secondary coil (aross on coil wire and plug wire) 2.7-3.7 K ohms
Source Coil (Br-BR/R) 78-94 ohms
Pickup (W?R-W/G) - 189-231 ohms
It the manual it says to check the iginition switches also. Water would be hell in one of those.
Another note on a different page it state source coil 392-479
charge coil white-black .36+-10% @ 60 F'
Spark plug cap 5Kohms
Primary coil (across both coil wires) .18-.24 ohms
Secondary coil (aross on coil wire and plug wire) 2.7-3.7 K ohms
Source Coil (Br-BR/R) 78-94 ohms
Pickup (W?R-W/G) - 189-231 ohms
It the manual it says to check the iginition switches also. Water would be hell in one of those.
Another note on a different page it state source coil 392-479
Hi again! 
jwiedmayer, should there be any resitance in the plug wires?.
Thanks alot for the specs!.
I pulled all the coils and took them inside on Saturday evening, tried measuring them with my multimeter.
At first I had some problems understanding how I should measure thme, first I measured between the plugwire (removed the cap) and each of the wires, the values were pretty much the same, I guess I only measured the secondary coils.
I then started thinking about how the coils are connected on the sled, I figured since they are connected in series, I have to measure the primary coil resistance with the coils connected in series, the multimeter had trouble getting a reading, it jumped between 0.0 and 0.3 ohms. (old cheak meter).
The primary coils had the following ohms: 3,327 K ohms, 3,392 K ohms and 3,316 K ohms.
When I get the manual from vibeline I will measure the coils one more time since I don`t feel condifent on my previous measurements.
Will be interesting too see how things look behind the flywheel.
I allready made a puller for the twin 600 v-max engines and also made one for the V-Max 4 engine, will any of them fit the MM700 flywheel?. Or will I have to make another one?.
Thanks for the thoughts mrviper700!
jwiedmayer, should there be any resitance in the plug wires?.
Thanks alot for the specs!.
I pulled all the coils and took them inside on Saturday evening, tried measuring them with my multimeter.
At first I had some problems understanding how I should measure thme, first I measured between the plugwire (removed the cap) and each of the wires, the values were pretty much the same, I guess I only measured the secondary coils.
I then started thinking about how the coils are connected on the sled, I figured since they are connected in series, I have to measure the primary coil resistance with the coils connected in series, the multimeter had trouble getting a reading, it jumped between 0.0 and 0.3 ohms. (old cheak meter).
The primary coils had the following ohms: 3,327 K ohms, 3,392 K ohms and 3,316 K ohms.
When I get the manual from vibeline I will measure the coils one more time since I don`t feel condifent on my previous measurements.
Will be interesting too see how things look behind the flywheel.
I allready made a puller for the twin 600 v-max engines and also made one for the V-Max 4 engine, will any of them fit the MM700 flywheel?. Or will I have to make another one?.
Thanks for the thoughts mrviper700!
jwiedmayer
New member
On a 700 they show the measurements being taken between the two input wires and then between one input wire and the plug wire. I would think the actual plug wire should have no resistance. The coils should be measured seperately not wired in series.
OK jwiedmayer thanks for the info.
I finished rebuilding the V-Max 4 engine today, while I had the stator in my hands I decided to measure them so that I know how to "read" the instrument. Don`t get me wrong, I`ve measured lot`s of things before, but I tend to mess around a little with the numbers, but I got good readings when I put the meter on AUTO, so that it decides if it should measure ohms, k ohms, or mega ohms itself.
I think I will pull the flywheel and stator, even if I get OK readings, just to check everything. Will a puller for a V-Max 600 fit the flywheel of a 700?. (I also have a puller for the V-Max 4 750).
Maybe I`ll get the flywheel off tomorrow, if not it will be on Thursday.
How much will the ohm readings vary with the temperature ?.
Hopefully I`ll have the manual soon, will be interesting to read.
If there is a short circuit som where (a positive wire that touches ground, will it cause trouble for sure?).
Incase the stator is bad, what other stators from 700`s will fit?.
.I finished rebuilding the V-Max 4 engine today, while I had the stator in my hands I decided to measure them so that I know how to "read" the instrument. Don`t get me wrong, I`ve measured lot`s of things before, but I tend to mess around a little with the numbers, but I got good readings when I put the meter on AUTO, so that it decides if it should measure ohms, k ohms, or mega ohms itself.
I think I will pull the flywheel and stator, even if I get OK readings, just to check everything. Will a puller for a V-Max 600 fit the flywheel of a 700?. (I also have a puller for the V-Max 4 750).
Maybe I`ll get the flywheel off tomorrow, if not it will be on Thursday.
How much will the ohm readings vary with the temperature ?.
Hopefully I`ll have the manual soon, will be interesting to read.
If there is a short circuit som where (a positive wire that touches ground, will it cause trouble for sure?).
Incase the stator is bad, what other stators from 700`s will fit?.
Hey I`m a alittle confused, vibeline offered to send me the manual, but now I got one from jwiedmayer?. Thanks a bunches anyway, awesome !! .
Now I`m looking at the maintenance specifications, electrical.
I can see that there are 5 different coils:
-pickup coil measure wires: white/red & white/green 189 - 231ohms
-source coil measure wires: brown & black/red 225 - 275ohms
-charge coil measure wires: white & black 0,29 - 0,35 ohms
-lighting coil measure wires: yellow & black 0,27 - 0,33ohms
-grip warmer coil measure wires: yellow/black & black 1,0 - 1,2ohms
Do all of these together make up what we call the stator?.
If one of these are off spec, will it cause a problem with the ignition?. (sounds wierd since they are named for example grip varmer coil etc)
Wellwell thanks again for the manual
.Now I`m looking at the maintenance specifications, electrical.
I can see that there are 5 different coils:
-pickup coil measure wires: white/red & white/green 189 - 231ohms
-source coil measure wires: brown & black/red 225 - 275ohms
-charge coil measure wires: white & black 0,29 - 0,35 ohms
-lighting coil measure wires: yellow & black 0,27 - 0,33ohms
-grip warmer coil measure wires: yellow/black & black 1,0 - 1,2ohms
Do all of these together make up what we call the stator?.
If one of these are off spec, will it cause a problem with the ignition?. (sounds wierd since they are named for example grip varmer coil etc)
Wellwell thanks again for the manual
Hi guys!
I was suppost to remove the stator this morning but my cousin came by and asked if I could change his rear wheel brake pads, so I said yes. But when I was done I started the MM that had been sitting since Sunday. Started on the 5th pull.
I then rode it for a couple of km`s before I started to clear her out, at first I almost thought she was healthy but she didn`t scream like she should. There is an hesitation now between 7500-9000rpm or so.
I then took it for a ride on a farm-road. While it was running I connected the harness that goes up to the headlight/rpm gauge. Then I gave it throttle, it hesitated like hell, barely moved forward. So this is an electrical issue for sure. Although disconnecting the harness doesn`t cure it since it still hesitates on high rpm like I explained above.
Then I parked the sled in the garage, hope I can let it sit there for a few days, my mum doesn`t like it when I put sleds in the garage so that she had to park her car outside. Wellwell it`s for a good cause.
I then disconnected the connectors that goes to the stator/pickup coils.
Then started measuring and compared the results to the electrical schematics I got yesterday. Everythings is within spec!!.
HOWEVER, a few days ago I read this post by ekimsx600 :
(http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17055&highlight=ohms)
"I just had the same problem with mine. Turned out to be a bad stator. Do you have a multimeter? If so, on the same side as the exhaust, you will see a rectangle connector and a triangle connector. (It will be kinda by the carb) unplug them and do the following checks. You want to check the end that goes into the motor.
Find the white/red and the white/green in the rectangle connector and check the resistance between those two. should be 189-231 ohms
In the triangle connector find the brown to black/red and check between them. Should be 392-479 ohms
Then go from the brown/red in the triangle connector to the black in the rectangle connector. Should be 93-113 ohms (This is the one that was bad on mine)
Good luck! "
END
The electrical schematic that I got yesterday didn`t tell me to measure between the brown/red in the triangle connector to the black in the rectangle connector, but since ekimsx600 wrote that you should measure it, I did and I got 64 ohms. It was suppost to be 93-113ohms.
Is this interesting?. Kind of hard to say since I don`t know what coil I measured, if you know what I mean. But there seems to be to little resistance in the circuit I measured. But then again, will a such difference cause a problem?.
I still plan to get the stator removed so that I can visually inspect the flywheel/pickup coils/stator.
Thanks for all the replies so far, hope we can figure this one out.
I was suppost to remove the stator this morning but my cousin came by and asked if I could change his rear wheel brake pads, so I said yes. But when I was done I started the MM that had been sitting since Sunday. Started on the 5th pull.
I then rode it for a couple of km`s before I started to clear her out, at first I almost thought she was healthy but she didn`t scream like she should. There is an hesitation now between 7500-9000rpm or so.
I then took it for a ride on a farm-road. While it was running I connected the harness that goes up to the headlight/rpm gauge. Then I gave it throttle, it hesitated like hell, barely moved forward. So this is an electrical issue for sure. Although disconnecting the harness doesn`t cure it since it still hesitates on high rpm like I explained above.
Then I parked the sled in the garage, hope I can let it sit there for a few days, my mum doesn`t like it when I put sleds in the garage so that she had to park her car outside. Wellwell it`s for a good cause.
I then disconnected the connectors that goes to the stator/pickup coils.
Then started measuring and compared the results to the electrical schematics I got yesterday. Everythings is within spec!!.
HOWEVER, a few days ago I read this post by ekimsx600 :
(http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17055&highlight=ohms)
"I just had the same problem with mine. Turned out to be a bad stator. Do you have a multimeter? If so, on the same side as the exhaust, you will see a rectangle connector and a triangle connector. (It will be kinda by the carb) unplug them and do the following checks. You want to check the end that goes into the motor.
Find the white/red and the white/green in the rectangle connector and check the resistance between those two. should be 189-231 ohms
In the triangle connector find the brown to black/red and check between them. Should be 392-479 ohms
Then go from the brown/red in the triangle connector to the black in the rectangle connector. Should be 93-113 ohms (This is the one that was bad on mine)
Good luck! "
END
The electrical schematic that I got yesterday didn`t tell me to measure between the brown/red in the triangle connector to the black in the rectangle connector, but since ekimsx600 wrote that you should measure it, I did and I got 64 ohms. It was suppost to be 93-113ohms.
Is this interesting?. Kind of hard to say since I don`t know what coil I measured, if you know what I mean. But there seems to be to little resistance in the circuit I measured. But then again, will a such difference cause a problem?.
I still plan to get the stator removed so that I can visually inspect the flywheel/pickup coils/stator.
Thanks for all the replies so far, hope we can figure this one out.
jwiedmayer
New member
I think the source coil is used to power the cdi. The pickup is the timing sensor and the rest are self explanatory. These are what make up the stator although the pickup snesor is just mounted to the stator. If your source coil is out of whack that's probably causing your problems. I have an extra stator at home I'll measure it tonight or tommorrow just to compare. J
kimoaj said:Hey I`m a alittle confused, vibeline offered to send me the manual, but now I got one from jwiedmayer?. Thanks a bunches anyway, awesome !!
Now I`m looking at the maintenance specifications, electrical.
I can see that there are 5 different coils:
-pickup coil measure wires: white/red & white/green 189 - 231ohms
-source coil measure wires: brown & black/red 225 - 275ohms
-charge coil measure wires: white & black 0,29 - 0,35 ohms
-lighting coil measure wires: yellow & black 0,27 - 0,33ohms
-grip warmer coil measure wires: yellow/black & black 1,0 - 1,2ohms
Do all of these together make up what we call the stator?.
If one of these are off spec, will it cause a problem with the ignition?. (sounds wierd since they are named for example grip varmer coil etc)
Wellwell thanks again for the manual
OK jwiedmayer sounds awesome!, the thing is that all was withing spec except for the measurement between the wires the ekimsx600 told a guy to measure, so I wonder what coil it is you measure when you measure between those wires. But I just sent him a PM so hopefully we`ll find that out.
Would be awesome if you could measure your stator and tell me the results, thanks for being so helpful!.
Remember to also measure between the brown/red wire in the triangle connector and the black wire in the rectangle connctor , like ekimsx600 said once.
Would be awesome if you could measure your stator and tell me the results, thanks for being so helpful!.
Remember to also measure between the brown/red wire in the triangle connector and the black wire in the rectangle connctor , like ekimsx600 said once.
Hi guys!
I might have found the problem!. Read below!.
This morning before I went to work, I decided to remove (or atleast try) to remove the stator.
Used a tire-change-lever and a bolt (put in on of the recoil bolt holes) to prevent the flywheel from turning.
Then I was happy to found out that the puller I made for a V-Max 600SX last year, also fit this flywheel. Flywheel popped off easily.
stator
The hardest part was to remove the screws that holds the thin iron plate that keeps the wires in place. Had to use all of my force/skill (if I have any) to get those screws loose. I don`t understand why they use philip-heads on screws like that.
Wrench setup, would have been hopeless to try and undo those screws with a normal screwdriver. It often helps to knock on the screws with a hammer (knock on the bit-extension, not directly on the screw)
I might have found the problem!. Read below!.
This morning before I went to work, I decided to remove (or atleast try) to remove the stator.
Used a tire-change-lever and a bolt (put in on of the recoil bolt holes) to prevent the flywheel from turning.
Then I was happy to found out that the puller I made for a V-Max 600SX last year, also fit this flywheel. Flywheel popped off easily.
stator
The hardest part was to remove the screws that holds the thin iron plate that keeps the wires in place. Had to use all of my force/skill (if I have any) to get those screws loose. I don`t understand why they use philip-heads on screws like that.
Wrench setup, would have been hopeless to try and undo those screws with a normal screwdriver. It often helps to knock on the screws with a hammer (knock on the bit-extension, not directly on the screw)
I then took the stator up to my workshop and measured everything one more time.
This time the measurement between the brown/red wire in the triangle connector and the black in the rectangle connector, gave me 48 ohms. (yesterday it showed 64).
Take a look at this:
Ain`t suppost to be like this?.
You can see a bare wire there, two infact. Guess those wires have normal isolation around them (if they were like they were suppost to be) pluss the glue-isolation or whatever it is. But everything is gone!.
While I measured between the brown/red in the triangle connector and the black in the rectangle connector, I tried touching the bare wires in stator, and the ohms changed imediately, vent down to 20 ohms, it jumped up & down.
The only thing that bugs me is that the manual doesn`t tell me to mesure these wires, but ekimsx600 once wrote in a thread that you had to measure these wires, and I bet he`s right.
So, I wonder if this can be causing the trouble?.
Well atleast the stator ain`t suppost to look like that.. .
Any opinions ???
This time the measurement between the brown/red wire in the triangle connector and the black in the rectangle connector, gave me 48 ohms. (yesterday it showed 64).
Take a look at this:
Ain`t suppost to be like this?.
You can see a bare wire there, two infact. Guess those wires have normal isolation around them (if they were like they were suppost to be) pluss the glue-isolation or whatever it is. But everything is gone!.
While I measured between the brown/red in the triangle connector and the black in the rectangle connector, I tried touching the bare wires in stator, and the ohms changed imediately, vent down to 20 ohms, it jumped up & down.
The only thing that bugs me is that the manual doesn`t tell me to mesure these wires, but ekimsx600 once wrote in a thread that you had to measure these wires, and I bet he`s right.
So, I wonder if this can be causing the trouble?.
Well atleast the stator ain`t suppost to look like that.. .
Any opinions ???
jwiedmayer
New member
I would bet my next pay check that its your problem. Well at least the root of some of your problems. Br/R goes to the cdi and the B is the ground. So looks like the cdi power gets shorted to the ground.
Gees jwiedmayer you just made my day !!
AWESOME, I guess that stator should be replaced anyway, even if it`s not the problem.
Did you have one for sale?.
AWESOME, I guess that stator should be replaced anyway, even if it`s not the problem.
Did you have one for sale?.