Rambunctious
New member
I have the all popular clutch setup setup for my 2000 srx
4.5 g rivits
8dn20 ( stock)
51/43 helix
red at 60deg
I am good on the bottom half ( 8400)
but the top half pulls to 8900
I have some heavier bolts from Hauck to try in the tip. I tried my own made heavier bolts before these arrived, noticed the shift is higher all around ( more speed at given rpm at half throttle) but I still pull to 8800
is adding more tip weight the right thing to do?
or shoudl I get a 51/51 helix or something (figuratively speaking)
ie. is the "43Deg" keeping me from more shiftout?
will the green ( stifffer right?) secondary make the top end over rev worse?
or should i get that for backshift improvement anyway, and continue with tip weight additions
I don't think I can reduce teh windup any more as I am on the edge of bog at a WOt launch.
thanks
Ramb
4.5 g rivits
8dn20 ( stock)
51/43 helix
red at 60deg
I am good on the bottom half ( 8400)
but the top half pulls to 8900
I have some heavier bolts from Hauck to try in the tip. I tried my own made heavier bolts before these arrived, noticed the shift is higher all around ( more speed at given rpm at half throttle) but I still pull to 8800
is adding more tip weight the right thing to do?
or shoudl I get a 51/51 helix or something (figuratively speaking)
ie. is the "43Deg" keeping me from more shiftout?
will the green ( stifffer right?) secondary make the top end over rev worse?
or should i get that for backshift improvement anyway, and continue with tip weight additions
I don't think I can reduce teh windup any more as I am on the edge of bog at a WOt launch.
thanks
Ramb
Last edited:
yamaholic22
Active member
I am in the exact same boat as you. Maybe our srx's just make more power than the others 
lol But yea mine is doing the same thing, althought more like 87-8800 on top end, and seems to be worse when REALLY cold out (making more power from the denser air???). So i was planning on trying more tipweight this weekend, like maybe 5.5 gram bolts in the outter hole where the 4.5's are now. I like you have the 51/43 helix and have used both green and red secondary spring. Green does run a few more rpms than the red. And top end is a little better with the red if you are in low-drag situations (like smooth ice with 1/2 inch of powder on it. Anyone else having this problem?
lol But yea mine is doing the same thing, althought more like 87-8800 on top end, and seems to be worse when REALLY cold out (making more power from the denser air???). So i was planning on trying more tipweight this weekend, like maybe 5.5 gram bolts in the outter hole where the 4.5's are now. I like you have the 51/43 helix and have used both green and red secondary spring. Green does run a few more rpms than the red. And top end is a little better with the red if you are in low-drag situations (like smooth ice with 1/2 inch of powder on it. Anyone else having this problem?Rambunctious
New member
exactly
on one day last months trip it was high (9000) , I backed the red preload to 60 from 70 and it really pulled again, the next day it was 12 degrees out and I was back to 8900-9000
I will try the weights, but at some point they will affect the bottom half by shifting too fast i think..... logically anyway......
seems the compound helix is the way to dial in. but can you take a 51/43 and make a 51/51 out of it? or is the rotation too small now ( steeper ramp gets to base metal with less arc rotation????
I'm an engineer, so I just want to totally understand this stuff and not blindly swap parts.
Also, i have nitrous and that makes it even worse when i hit the NOS ( ignition puking out at 9200 RPM)
but...one step at at time
Ramb
on one day last months trip it was high (9000) , I backed the red preload to 60 from 70 and it really pulled again, the next day it was 12 degrees out and I was back to 8900-9000
I will try the weights, but at some point they will affect the bottom half by shifting too fast i think..... logically anyway......
seems the compound helix is the way to dial in. but can you take a 51/43 and make a 51/51 out of it? or is the rotation too small now ( steeper ramp gets to base metal with less arc rotation????
I'm an engineer, so I just want to totally understand this stuff and not blindly swap parts.
Also, i have nitrous and that makes it even worse when i hit the NOS ( ignition puking out at 9200 RPM)
but...one step at at time
Ramb
yamaholic22
Active member
Rambunctious said:exactly
on one day last months trip it was high (9000) , I backed the red preload to 60 from 70 and it really pulled again, the next day it was 12 degrees out and I was back to 8900-9000
I will try the weights, but at some point they will affect the bottom half by shifting too fast i think..... logically anyway......
seems the compound helix is the way to dial in. but can you take a 51/43 and make a 51/51 out of it? or is the rotation too small now ( steeper ramp gets to base metal with less arc rotation????
I'm an engineer, so I just want to totally understand this stuff and not blindly swap parts.
Also, i have nitrous and that makes it even worse when i hit the NOS ( ignition puking out at 9200 RPM)
but...one step at at time
Ramb
lol me too! And really adding weight to the tips shouldn't affect the lower end of the shift curve too much as the tips are still tucked under behind the rollers for the lower and mid part of the shift curve, making their presence rather unfelt.
9801srx
Member
wouldn't a 51/51 just be a straight 51 ? I have the same set up in my ported 98 and I'am using a 51/46 only overrevs to 8600 on a long run.
change_up
New member
Did you put the WWW primary spring in there? Just wondering, it didn't say in your original post.
yamaholic22
Active member
he didnt say but i do believe he has the w-w-w, as do i, and i still have an overrev on top end when i am making good power and when drag is low. I doubt we are running out of gear but maybe that is worth a shot...that is if putting MORE weight in the tips doesn't work.
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
DON,T LAUGH, THAT PROBLEY YOUR PROBLEMS. YOU GUYS HAVE STRONG SRX,s. IF THAT THE CASE. LIKE YOU SAY LOAD TIP OR CUT BACK FINISH ANGLE ON HELIX. YOU BE SURPRIZED HOW HELIX CAN CHANGE RPM. 3:16 (tony)
Rambunctious
New member
I do have WWW
9801--- yes... that would be a strait cut
)
maybe 51/47 is what i need. shift faster on the bottom end, don't take away from stock on the top end.
I wonder why the 43 top half is suggested/needed as a result in Turk and others extensive testing.
Turk/ mr Viper:
..what did YOU find with a 51/47 or generically (stock +xdeg, stock) setup????
what drove the need for the 43 ( or lower than stock )finish angle
is the 51/47 a stock helix for anything, or a custom ground.
whats the price for that helix
regarding tip weight
i suppose you could pull some out of the heel if you started to affect the bottom half. but then you begin to drift far away from the most recommended setup on the board..... hmmmmmmmmm
Ramb
9801--- yes... that would be a strait cut
)maybe 51/47 is what i need. shift faster on the bottom end, don't take away from stock on the top end.
I wonder why the 43 top half is suggested/needed as a result in Turk and others extensive testing.
Turk/ mr Viper:
..what did YOU find with a 51/47 or generically (stock +xdeg, stock) setup????
what drove the need for the 43 ( or lower than stock )finish angle
is the 51/47 a stock helix for anything, or a custom ground.
whats the price for that helix
regarding tip weight
i suppose you could pull some out of the heel if you started to affect the bottom half. but then you begin to drift far away from the most recommended setup on the board..... hmmmmmmmmm
Ramb
Rambunctious
New member
I have this issues with stock gearing, and I just went back to down 1 on top gear (22).
issue still remains
I thought going back to stock gearing at the beginning of the season was going to help me with the nitrous. it did not. Im over reving before hitting the NOS.
I then thought that maybe the "lugging" from this gearing ( although stock) and the fact that I gained 10 lbs from last year was making the clutch backshift some........ so I went Back ( again) to the 22 ( 1 tooth down) for my last ride.
bottom line. the 22 gearing did NOT ( edit) help the top rpm issue. but the 22 did seem to give the sled more low end/mid range accelleration as expected. SO I will keep it there.
Ramb
issue still remains
I thought going back to stock gearing at the beginning of the season was going to help me with the nitrous. it did not. Im over reving before hitting the NOS.
I then thought that maybe the "lugging" from this gearing ( although stock) and the fact that I gained 10 lbs from last year was making the clutch backshift some........ so I went Back ( again) to the 22 ( 1 tooth down) for my last ride.
bottom line. the 22 gearing did NOT ( edit) help the top rpm issue. but the 22 did seem to give the sled more low end/mid range accelleration as expected. SO I will keep it there.
Ramb
daman
New member
I would try to load the tip more first..
All your questions your asking about helixs are in the FAQ section on this site.
Rambunctious
New member
Thanks
that is how I understood in my own mind and your post confirms my assumptions
I guess my 0nly question is: based on those theories, when you (mr v), turk and others who did all the srx testing and graciously gave the "secret recipes" to us, did you find a strait 51, or a 51/47 did actually overrun the powerband, and a 51/43 or similar is what was needed.
I have 5g, 5.5g and 5.9g rivits now so I will try them first with varying red spring preloads, and maybe a green spring, before i get serious about a new helix.
Ramb
that is how I understood in my own mind and your post confirms my assumptions
I guess my 0nly question is: based on those theories, when you (mr v), turk and others who did all the srx testing and graciously gave the "secret recipes" to us, did you find a strait 51, or a 51/47 did actually overrun the powerband, and a 51/43 or similar is what was needed.
I have 5g, 5.5g and 5.9g rivits now so I will try them first with varying red spring preloads, and maybe a green spring, before i get serious about a new helix.
Ramb
archer
Member
As an amatuer tuner I have the same questions. As you go higher on srping tension on the secondary your RPM's go up. Is it possible that you are getting belt slippage in the primary? How far up in the primary is your belt shifting?
The problem with using a helix with a steeper finish instead of adding tip weight is the motor will get into a dead zone, it will just make noise and not gain rpm or mph, becuase the clutchs will be ahead of the motors power curve and by not slowing the shift down with a smaller finish angle it simply will be lugged and not able to keep accelarating and or gaining rpm. I would keep adding tip weight to the arms, if need be you can also weld some weight to the bottom tips of the weights, this way your clamping the belt in the primary clutch, this is where you want to controll the rpm, not in the secondary. The secondary is for fine tuning the shift curve the way you want it.
The problem with wrapping the secondary more is that you will begin to make the clutching very in efficent as the rear clutch will want to backshift into a lower gear and the front clutch wants to upshift into a higher gear, they will fight each other.
The problem with wrapping the secondary more is that you will begin to make the clutching very in efficent as the rear clutch will want to backshift into a lower gear and the front clutch wants to upshift into a higher gear, they will fight each other.
Rambunctious
New member
Well I had some success over the weekend
I installed the HAuck 5.5g bolts and woudn my red spring back to 70.
I am pulling right on 8500 up to 105/110 on speedo ( ran out of road)
seemed a little sluggish in the backshifting in teh trails
so I wound the red to 80. and it is backshifting good now
I ran the road again and am still right at 8500 to 105/110 on speedo
I did another two runs with my nitrous and it pulls much better now at 8800 instead of 9200 before 
I may buy a gtreen sprign to see if I get even quicker backshifting witout an rpm issue. if not, I am happy with my red at 80 degrees.
I looked at my helix and it actually has 54/42 stamped on it. It was suppose to be an rx1 helix, so I am not sure if I should try an actual 51/43 off an rx1.
seems thsi one is dialled in pretty good now.
the next future weekend run with the Attack will close this issue.
I'm happy
Ramb
I installed the HAuck 5.5g bolts and woudn my red spring back to 70.
I am pulling right on 8500 up to 105/110 on speedo ( ran out of road)
seemed a little sluggish in the backshifting in teh trails
so I wound the red to 80. and it is backshifting good now
I ran the road again and am still right at 8500 to 105/110 on speedo
I did another two runs with my nitrous and it pulls much better now at 8800 instead of 9200 before
I may buy a gtreen sprign to see if I get even quicker backshifting witout an rpm issue. if not, I am happy with my red at 80 degrees.
I looked at my helix and it actually has 54/42 stamped on it. It was suppose to be an rx1 helix, so I am not sure if I should try an actual 51/43 off an rx1.
seems thsi one is dialled in pretty good now.
the next future weekend run with the Attack will close this issue.
I'm happy
Ramb
bluemonster1
LIFE MEMBER ONLY ONCE!!!
In my SRX have w-w-w primary spring.4.5g in inner and outers.Ran 51/43 helix with green spring at 70 wrap.Launched at 8600 and wot to 8800.So I put 47 helix back in with red spring and wrap at 80.Also put new belt on.Not to bad now.Launch with hit 8500 and drop fast to 8200 and then pulls like a
S.O.B to 8500 and was nearly at 110 mph,but had to let off because of corner coming up.But it felt wicked pulling.I know there was more the way it was pulling.Wicked pull is all I can say.So I don't know what a 48/40 would do for me.
S.O.B to 8500 and was nearly at 110 mph,but had to let off because of corner coming up.But it felt wicked pulling.I know there was more the way it was pulling.Wicked pull is all I can say.So I don't know what a 48/40 would do for me.
"looked at my helix and it actually has 54/42 stamped on it. It was suppose to be an rx1 helix, so I am not sure if I should try an actual 51/43 off an rx1.
seems thsi one is dialled in pretty good now"
This is exactly why you had the incorrect rpm!!, the 42 finish angle will make the sled rev more on topend from the shallow finish and require more tip weight in the primary to controll the rpm. Even changing degrees 1 -2 on the start and finish ruin a clutch recipe and require more testing. Whenever someone comes on and complains the rpm is wrong its usually they dont have the parts installed correctly as the set up was given or they are the wrong parts. All the parts in a clutch set up work together, and you cant just get "close enuff" on the parts and expect it to all work together correctly, Its a recipe, just like a cake, if it calls for 3 eggs and you only use 1, chances are your not going to have a cake when you open the oven!
I am not trying to pick on you but I distinctly remember about 40 post as to why the sled doesnt run the correct rpm, I am just pointing out a reason as to why the clutch kit set ups dont work on some sleds and they are spot on on others. The reason they dont work right is the recipe doesnt have all the ingrediants in it correctly!
seems thsi one is dialled in pretty good now"
This is exactly why you had the incorrect rpm!!, the 42 finish angle will make the sled rev more on topend from the shallow finish and require more tip weight in the primary to controll the rpm. Even changing degrees 1 -2 on the start and finish ruin a clutch recipe and require more testing. Whenever someone comes on and complains the rpm is wrong its usually they dont have the parts installed correctly as the set up was given or they are the wrong parts. All the parts in a clutch set up work together, and you cant just get "close enuff" on the parts and expect it to all work together correctly, Its a recipe, just like a cake, if it calls for 3 eggs and you only use 1, chances are your not going to have a cake when you open the oven!
I am not trying to pick on you but I distinctly remember about 40 post as to why the sled doesnt run the correct rpm, I am just pointing out a reason as to why the clutch kit set ups dont work on some sleds and they are spot on on others. The reason they dont work right is the recipe doesnt have all the ingrediants in it correctly!
Rambunctious
New member
I'm frustrated too Mr. V
i appreciate all input you and everyone have given.
I had been wondering why i had problems, trying to logically troubleshoot this, asking if others had issues with this well proven recipe, and trying to learn why i was high and if other angles would get me ultimately where I want, only to find out i didn't have what i thought i had (bought) for a starting point.
my mistake ultimately to assume.....
after learning this I , yesterday, asked my rx1 buddy if he had his helix as he had done a clutch kit for his rx1. so i could race him with both setups and determine if the 51/43 (with 4.5g tip) is better than my modified combo now with my 54/42.
Ramb
i appreciate all input you and everyone have given.
I had been wondering why i had problems, trying to logically troubleshoot this, asking if others had issues with this well proven recipe, and trying to learn why i was high and if other angles would get me ultimately where I want, only to find out i didn't have what i thought i had (bought) for a starting point.
my mistake ultimately to assume.....
after learning this I , yesterday, asked my rx1 buddy if he had his helix as he had done a clutch kit for his rx1. so i could race him with both setups and determine if the 51/43 (with 4.5g tip) is better than my modified combo now with my 54/42.
Ramb