Antifreeze additive ?

w8tn4snow

w8tn4snow

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Anyone ever used one of those additives like water wetter or liquid ice in their sled ? I saw one in a parts store the other day and it said it could be used on snowmobiles . It claims to keep the engine like 30 degrees cooler . Just fishing I guess . I dont know if it would have any bad effects or what .
 

The HIGHER concentration of ETHYLENE GLYCOL, the better it works... When a mixture of ethylene glycol and DISTILLED water (you see how I highlighted DISTILLED???) gets above the 50% level ( 60%EG and 40% water), the ethylene glycol has a tendency coagulate ( turn into JELLO) when it's real cold outside... This coagulation WILL CAUSE overheating and also circulation problems!!!! WATER WETTER will COMPLETELY STOP the coagulation and provide better surface tension capabilities... The surfaces inside the water jackets of an internal combustion engine create little bubbles (BOILING). the little bubbles are a real problem on RACECARS that have to rely on ONLY WATER (per NHRA rules).. They are also SOMEWHAT of a problem on SNOWMOBILES ALSO!!!! Although YAMAHA has come up with expansion tanks on their sleds and just about eliminated the problem,,,, IT STILL HAPPENS!!!! Not as much,,,,,but,,,,still happens.... If you understand the whole Ph balance thing and you understand the whole anode/cathode theory thing,, you'd understand WHY WATER WETTER is such a good idea!!!! I dont have the PATIENCE or time to explain it to you,,, just WATER WETTER WORKS REAL GOOD would be a TRUE statement!!! Gary Oles nosboy
 
as far as 30 degrees,,,,, I think you could be creating problems with NOT ENOUGH HEAT in your motor to properly burn the fuel efficiently,,,but,,,I HONESTLY don't think you will notice a 30 degree difference.. MAYBE 5 thru 8 degrees,,, but NOT 30!!!! My racecar motor LIKES A LOT OF HEAT for some reason and it DOESNT LIKE COLD WEATHER (or HUMIDITY either!!!) Usually motors run BETTER the colder it is outside,,, NOT THIS MOTOR!!!! I'm STILL trying to figure out WHY?????
 
and I DO USE water wetter in my racecar (also my tow vehicle) its O.K. with NHRA too!!!!
 
many guys on the 4 stroke side use engine ice or watter wetter in there sleds.
 
Well I guess ill try it then . I put a set of Bender tripples on my Viper and have read alot on here about motors burning down due to the excessive heat caused by the pipes . I realize this is usually caused by running lean and not just engine temp but more pipes means more underhood heat and the cooler the engine the better . I HOPE !
 
Why DISTILLED water. I know just seeing why we do it, just seeing why you do it. Maxdlx
 
w8tn4snow said:
Well I guess ill try it then . I put a set of Bender tripples on my Viper and have read alot on here about motors burning down due to the excessive heat caused by the pipes . I realize this is usually caused by running lean and not just engine temp but more pipes means more underhood heat and the cooler the engine the better . I HOPE !
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I am in the same boat you are, I put on bender pipes on my viper last fall and thought I would try the water wetter to help cooling along with my rear heat exchanger I added. Sled ran great and did not overheat or burn down. I don't think that the water wetter prevented that, but it might haved helped. And if it didn't, no harm no fowl.:rockon:
 
Water high in minerals will actually "COOL BETTER" than distilled water,,,but,,,, IT IS VERY DAMAGING to your engine...We'd have to get into chemical reactions and also into sacrificial anodes to get MINERAL WATER to work positively in a cooling system,,,but,,, nevertheless,,,, it COULD BE DONE!!! There is the technology out there to do it also!!!! But,,, to keep everything "USER FRIENDLY",,, use DISTILLED WATER!!!
 
nosboy said:
as far as 30 degrees,,,,, I think you could be creating problems with NOT ENOUGH HEAT in your motor to properly burn the fuel efficiently,,,but,,,I HONESTLY don't think you will notice a 30 degree difference.. MAYBE 5 thru 8 degrees,,, but NOT 30!!!!
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I agree, 30* under is just advertising BS. Under ideal conditions they maybe saw that once in a laboratory.

However, even if it is true, you've got a thermostat, let it do it's job.

Cheers Gary.
 
nosboy said:
Water high in minerals will actually "COOL BETTER" than distilled water,,,but,,,, IT IS VERY DAMAGING to your engine...We'd have to get into chemical reactions and also into sacrificial anodes to get MINERAL WATER to work positively in a cooling system,,,but,,, nevertheless,,,, it COULD BE DONE!!!
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Commonly done in boat motors, it's possible and effective, but a major pain in the butt.
 
Water is in fact a much better coolant than ethylene glycol or propylene glycol. Specific heat is the determining factor in which substance has better cooling properties than others. Basically a substance with a higher specific heat can absorb more heat energy and as a result transfer that energy away from the source more quickly. Ethylene glycol has a specific heat of 0.57 and propylene glycol has a specific heat of 0.59. That being said, water should still not be used as a sole coolant without any ethylene or propylene because they both raise the boiling point of the solution, as well as protect against the oxidizing capabilities of water which are only accelerated in an elevated temperature environment such as inside your engine. Aluminum and steel are both prone to the long-time corrosive nature of water as it absorbs minerals from the environment and the cooling system parts. The boiling point of the cooling system is further raised by pressurizing the system, which is exactly why these cooling systems have calibrated pressure caps. It IS in fact important to replace the pressure cap from time to time for just that reason.
 
I disagree with you YAMAHAULIC !!!! Water is HORSE**** UNLESS you use it in a BOAT application and introduce 70 degree to 80 degree ALL THE TIME... There is a theory called SURFACE TENSION... VERY SMALL bubbles are created when you introduce water to the WATER JACKET SIDE of a cylinder of an engine that is running... UNLESS you have a VERY HIGH FLOWRATE,, the SURFACE TENSION creates AIR BUBBLES between the cylinder and the WATER, KEEPING the water from cooling the cylinder.. It is a REAL PROBLEM in a race car that does NOT USE A THERMOSTAT.. The water cools down only a FEW DEGREES because it does NOT HAVE TIME to stay in the radiator to have a chance to cool down,, so,,, It keeps FLOWING and KEEPS creating MASSIVE problems and BIGTIME air pockets (created by surface tension)... ETHYLENE GLYCOL and WATER mixed at a 50-50 ratio,,, will just about ELIMINATE surface tension and it will absorb a LOT MORE heat that plain water!!!
 
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and, in a nutshell,,by reducing surface tension,, the cooling system will be able to cool all that much better.. ( thats how water wetter and the other "cooling system" products work!!!!)
 
nosboy i dont disagree with you that water has issues with surface tension in real world usage in an engine. I was simply stating that water DOES have a much higher ability to absorb heat then ethylene glycol. That is simple chemistry. Outside factors (such as the hot spots in a running engine, the non-laminar flows and turbulence created, vibration of the internal components, etc) will all have an effect on the ability of a specific fluid to cool the components. That is why a certain percentage of ethylene glycol provides desirable results when used in an engine. I guess i may have worded things poorly or possibly sounded like a proponent for using water as an engine coolant and that was not my intention. But fluid to fluid, water has the ability to absorb and transfer A LOT more heat.
 
I gotta weigh in on this one. I think that the specific heat capacity is more or less irrelevant in a constant cooling cycle, as nomatter what it is, it's the same on both ends right? the temperature drop across the heat exchanging surfaces is what this will change I guess, but really you can change that with flow, the heat capacity of water is very high yes, but so long as there's sufficient flow (not an issue at the RPM's that a sled motor needs to spin to make power, especially with an anti-cavitation plate) 5J in at the motor, 5J out at the heat exchanger, that's really the important part.

however surface tension and boiling point are both very important, and actually related, your flash-steam points against the inner wall of the cylinder are gonna be dependent on the temperature that the fluid boils at (aswell as the speed it's moving across the surface).

For strictly race stuff, i actually used to run just pure water (and not even deionized water) but having been thru alot of school since then that was DEFINITELY the wrong move. Actually water wetter wasn't readily available then, but a 10% glycol mix would have gone a long ways to shifting boiling point. Not to mention the energy density. Going to the track, you can throw Glycol in the freezer and bring it to the track at -10*c and have alot more potential enthalpy/cubic foot than by bringing water at 1*c, not to mention at -1, once it freezes you're fubar, have to be like -60 before your enthalpy/volume is back to what it was at freeze point.

Really the killer tho is reducing the surface finish of the inside of the motor via aluminum oxidation. So whatever you do, don't just use hose water in a motor. take it from your dehumidifier bucket.
 
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