86 Phaser and a n00b sledder bogging issue

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Damaclese

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Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
6
Age
48
Location
Edmonton alberta
Hey, just recently got into sledding as im in an area now that I can actually go, yay me. Bought an 86 phaser 480? 483? and had it in for a tune up plugs oil change and general inspection. My brother took it for a boot and said it worked fine till it started to bog down and finally you could get no power transference through the clutch. The problem went away after about 5 minuites of idle and then happened again apx. 20 minuites later, same situation started to bog out so he hammered the throttle and it stil lstalled out and had no power to engage the clutch, Tried a 3rd time and this time when it bogged he just let off on the throttle and same situation came to a stop had to let it idle to ? clear itself out?. I came out to the lake and fired it up it turned over after about 7 pulls with throttle pulled wide open and chocke on and it fired up stumbled a bit and died, ok no prob ive seen other sleds do that and proeeded to crank it again. Well i got it running but i had to keep it up arround 2k rpm's and it stil lwouldnt hold an idle, so I kept it steady for about 5 minuites and it sounded fine it did not seem to be misfiring at all, I believe these sleds run a wasted spark system as well. Hoped on the phazer and throttled up and it started to go okay, got to almost the end of the drive way 50foot or so and learned what it feels like when a sled bogs, so I kept throttle steady and it stalled out. Fired it up again got out of the drive way finally and maybe 100ft later it bogs again i pin it it seems to regain a slight bit but stalls out, took it back to the yard and fired up the old mans vmaxand went sledding.

Now I know the theroy behind a 2 stroke system but theroy doesent mean much when it comes right down to diagnosing a problem, going to go out tomorrow and see if I can add any more info to this post but I have a few idead idlike to try and need some info or direction on where to go, please!

1- Ignition - C.I.D not 100% certain I need to change this and I think I found it little ignition coil looking like thing with a wire comming out of it towards the ?firewall? Could be a bad ground wire?

1a- wires and plugs - going to check for spark tomorrow thats pretty easy to do.

2- Going to look at the fuel lines and see if I can locate a fuel filter I think it should have one I cant see whay it wouldnt, Also is it possible to vapour lock a line if it runs too close to a heat source? Wil lreplace any bad lines I find and im guessing its going to be steel tubeing or rubber line and I might look at changing them out if I have to re-route with Synflex line and brass reusealbe fittings just because they might be easier to route and 'T' off.

2a- It had a new fuel pump installed last year is it pobbile the pump does not have enough head pressure to supply both cylinders and is there a fuel diverter that might be plugged up thereby cutting fuel supply to one cylinder?

3- Mechanical Going to inspect the carbs and see if there dirty I dont think they are due to the tune up but hey who knows.

So if any one can shed me some light on what I could should or would look for that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
 
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sounds like a fuel related issue, floats are off or hanging up and draining the bowls, fuel filter is clogged and collapsing maybe?.but i would expect you to find the problem is fuel related
 
The fuel filter is on the end of a hose in the tank. Put a hook in the end of a piece of wire and hook it out the fill hole.
Could also be a leak between the filter and fuel pump and it is drawing air.
It would not seem to be a spark related problem, but of course possible. Both plugs do run from the same source. A coil that is cutting out when it gets warm? Hook up a timing light and tape or bungee cord it on so you can see the light when riding the sled.
It could be that one cylinder is starving for gas when it bogs.
If it works fine at times and for as long as 20 minutes, it should not be any kind of a carb setting issue.
Possibly a piece of debris in a float bowl that is drawn to the main jet and blocks it, then falls away when the sled is idled.
Unplug the throttle over ride switch (switch located on the carb linkage) and plug the lead wires together and try it.
 
Okay yesterday was a good day of sledding even with the stopping for the bogging issue but Ive worked a few things out so far. New spark plug was not gapped right or fouled from new so I put a set of old plugs in and ill regap and try the new ones this weekend, pulled the spark plug wires off and one made a difference one didnt so that was pretty basic. Adjusted my idle speed arround to about 1500 rpm but this still fluctuates a bit. Played with the carb adjustment screwes and got the machine sounding like the phazer2 that was out there yesterday, Im going to have to play with thoes some more because I think its a tricky thing to get right. Found 2 screwes that do the same thing i think but are located in 2 different locations. First screw is more of a knob with a + sign in the top of it and when you turn it inwards and outwards it seems to set your throttle cable up, I figured this out when I idles at 2k and when running the machine did not decelerate, that gave me an opportunity to test the brake system heh. The 2nd screw is in between the carbs on a linkage piece maybe this is to syncronize the carbs I adjuted it inwards a bit as well, Not to sure if I should have though. And the biggest problem I found was a 4 inch section of my 3/8ths main fuel line that was entirely filled with air, the fittings that clamp the fuel line are are corbin style and there crap so im going to take the top shroud and light off thr sled and try to run a new single piece fuel line, Not to sure how to take it off but it looks like a few screws and panels and Ill have access to the top of the tank where the fuel lines come out of it.

Thanks for the information guys I appreciate it, especialy when going into unknown territory with older modles and my lack of experience.!


P.S keep the info comming I dont think thats the only problem il lfind this weekend heh.
 
check the pulse line as wel for splits while you are at it. it is sucking air somewhere between the tank and the pump so changeing fuel lines would be a good start.

you can also cheat a little with the inital priming by installing a outboard motor primer ball temporarily. saves arm muscles big time.
 
The fuel lines are metric sized.
The corbin hose clamps are not always easy to use, but they do thier job well. They keep constant tension on the joint as the hose changes form and shrinks with age or changes with temperature. The sheet metal type are easier to use than the wire type. I will not use any other type of clamp on my Yamaha's.
Get some long needle nose pliers, a straight one, one with a 45 degree bend and one with a 90 to help R&R the clamps. The swap-meet tool vendors or Harbor Freight usually have them at a cheap price.

I think you were describing the synchronizing adjustment between the carbs. It is best to be set with a balancing gauge, but can be set by closing both throttle shutters completely and setting it so that both shutters open at exactly the same time. You may need a mirror (or two) for that. The white knob is the idle speed adjustment. The idle mixture adjustment is a screw on top of each carb.


.
 
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Dang I thought the lines were 3/8 or 5/16 ill have to hit my local outfitter again and see if I can scrounge some metric stuff and I was thinking regular hose clamps but theres no room for them and come to think of it I did see a few bubles come up on the line running into the external fuel/oil line gauge on the right side, glad I invested in the plier set I bought the long opnes are going to save me in this case, thanks again for the info.

forgot to add some ionfo in my post this morning. The bogging seemed to happen more often between 3-4 k rpm and I was on a lake with alot of hard pack drifts so if it started to bog out id hit a drift and the bounce would kicksome thing loose and the bog would go away so I did think it might be carb floats as well getting hung up as well it is an old sled so Im probably better off getitng thoes changed out soon as well, might be a bit of a waste of money but hey then there done and its a possible problem eliminated.

Ill post more after this weekend as this project continues on.

Any one have any web sites or links on phazer tech manuals or specks? I got a hold of a phazer 2 manual off a '94 so reading that helped me out quite a bit too.

thanks again
 
i would say it is your air/fuel screws(the ones on top of each carb) lightly turn them in to seated position then turn them out to 3/4 turns from seated position and try that the plus looking screw is the idle screw
 
Ok I found another problem out and its an odd one. I was getting massive air in my fuel lines and it seems that my vent line and fuel tank vent are crimped off / plugged. While running and starting to bog if i open the fuel cap it depresureizes and seems to run better, so ill get it into my local sled shop to get the lines replaced and routed to a better location. I never thought about venting the tank at all but its just a temporary fix. Oddbal leh?
 
Get yourself the Cymer shop manual for the Phazer. They cost about 35 bucks and are a HUGE help. It wont solve all your problems but can save you a lot of time and serious grief. Especially in understanding how Phazers are put together. Good luck.
 
it sound like you better pull the sled in shop give it a complete going over pull carbs clean service clutchs visually inspect all lines check secondary clutch to make sure not pulling belt down before it should also inspect reeds when you have carbs off
 
Yup thats what its going in for next week clean and check carbs jets reeds not usre what thoes are and going to get all new lines run as well might as well get it al ldone in one shot the clutch has been inspected and it does have some wear. I dont know how much but it was worth mention but that will probably be a summer project.
 
And the saga continues. After having it into my local Yamaha dealer and parting with another 200 bucks, I took it for a spin, worked great no bogging at all. Thinking my problem solved went in for breakfast came out started up the girlfriends phazer 2 and started out for some trails. Well guess what went out for 10 minuites and its bogging again. Blah blah blah trailer up drive to the girlfriends brother inlaw and shove it in his garage. After 4 hours of carb cleaning spark checking parts removal and instalation and such it appears that the base gasket is blown, Thats what he called it I think its called the case half gasket. At any rate one carb seemed to be working much ahrder than the other the reason cause its sucking air through the blown out hole in the gasket rather than down the throat of the carb!

That explains the wheezing noise I heard every now and then.

Will post more if this doesent not resolve my persistant problem!
:o|
 
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