dabear95
New member
Have a slight problem with the PTO piston:
PTO Crank
PTO Piston 1
PTO Piston 2
PTO Dome
PTO Cylinder
Ok so...
1. Do I need to dig in the bottom end to be safe? There is 6006 miles on the machine.
2. If not, what can I check to make the best guess.
3. Does the MAG jug look like it can be cleaned up or should it be re-plated?
I have not found the cause, hopefully something obvious when I clean the carbs! If not, I need to check all the rubber, lines, fuel pump, and case seals right? This is my first 2 smoke rebuild.
Thanks!
Jason
PTO Crank
PTO Piston 1
PTO Piston 2
PTO Dome
PTO Cylinder
Ok so...
1. Do I need to dig in the bottom end to be safe? There is 6006 miles on the machine.
2. If not, what can I check to make the best guess.
3. Does the MAG jug look like it can be cleaned up or should it be re-plated?
I have not found the cause, hopefully something obvious when I clean the carbs! If not, I need to check all the rubber, lines, fuel pump, and case seals right? This is my first 2 smoke rebuild.
Thanks!
Jason
dabear95
New member
Too many pictures for the first post. Here is the MAG side:
MAG Cylinder (Worst Spot)
MAG Piston Outside
MAG Piston Inside
MAG Piston Dome
MAG Cylinder (Worst Spot)
MAG Piston Outside
MAG Piston Inside
MAG Piston Dome
horkn
New member
ouch.
I have seen worse cylinders clean up, but those were iron bores.
take the cylinders to a competent and trusted shop, and see what they tell you.
Definitely take the cases apart, and have the crank checked over by the same shop.
New crank seals would be a good idea.
with 6k on my 97 venture 600, you have me a little worried. Esp since the MM and venture 6 are basically the same, same smart carbs and everything.
I was thinking about re ringing the venture for next year, and checking the ring lands and pins since those were known to be problems, and I bought the sled this fall, so it's entire history is unknown. But now I know I will be doing the re ring, and maybe throwing new pistons in it as well as a new oil pump.
Is it true these 600 twins have plated cylinders? nikasil I assume.
I have seen worse cylinders clean up, but those were iron bores.
take the cylinders to a competent and trusted shop, and see what they tell you.
Definitely take the cases apart, and have the crank checked over by the same shop.
New crank seals would be a good idea.
with 6k on my 97 venture 600, you have me a little worried. Esp since the MM and venture 6 are basically the same, same smart carbs and everything.
I was thinking about re ringing the venture for next year, and checking the ring lands and pins since those were known to be problems, and I bought the sled this fall, so it's entire history is unknown. But now I know I will be doing the re ring, and maybe throwing new pistons in it as well as a new oil pump.
Is it true these 600 twins have plated cylinders? nikasil I assume.
daman
New member
Looks like another lean burn down with the piston erosion on the exhaust side like that,and i see no wash at all on them piston's..
yes tear that bottom end apart clean and inspect,then new seal's of course.
were you doing a long WOT pull when this happened or mid range pull??
yes tear that bottom end apart clean and inspect,then new seal's of course.
were you doing a long WOT pull when this happened or mid range pull??
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daman
New member
Yes horkn there plated cyl's...horkn said:
dabear95
New member
I was 2/3 to 3/4 throttle cruising. So the wash looks lean then? The dome I posted was the good side. If that side is lean it could be a smart carb problem. uh-oh.
I was hoping I would not have to take the bottom end apart and save the $500 bucks.
Jason
I was hoping I would not have to take the bottom end apart and save the $500 bucks.
Jason
03viperguy
Moderator
wow, looks pretty...scuffed. I would tear into everything and find ouit why it happened. nothing like rebuilding only to have it happen again. were the updates to the rings etc done on this sled?
dabear95
New member
What updates? I thought that was for the older twins...
Jason
Jason
horkn
New member
no, those updates were for 97+98 600 twins....I have no idea about the TSS sleds,but the issues with pistons were for our years.dabear95 said:
As far as smart carbs, was there a lot of belt dust near the carbs?? if anything that would make it run richer, since the smart carbs apparently have a "port" that gets belt dust on them and plugs up the opening. but I heard that richens things out.
your piston tops have no carbon on them at all. sounds too lean to me. does your sled use the same amount of oil it always did?
daman
New member
bottom end shouldn't cost $500 bucks,,your just looking things over washing the crank out good and new seals,,far from $500..dabear95 said:
yes it look's lean...way lean!!!!,,clean carbs good check jetting see where
your at,not sure how smart carbs work but somthings going on here..
dabear95
New member
Uh-oh, I do not know. I will have to check into the updates. I remember reading it but thought it did not apply. If you have any links handy, please post them.
Oil usage was normal, I adjusted the pump last season and checked everything again this year. Idle, choke, oil pump, etc.
I shimmed the secondary also. I did notice right before she blew that it was revving higher ~ 8,500 RPM.
Jason
Oil usage was normal, I adjusted the pump last season and checked everything again this year. Idle, choke, oil pump, etc.
I shimmed the secondary also. I did notice right before she blew that it was revving higher ~ 8,500 RPM.
Jason
03viperguy
Moderator
maybe you lost a crank seal and started to run lean? where do you store it, nioce and warm or maybe somewhere the seals may dry out?
daman
New member
'98 pistons were fine,it was '97 600's that some had a problem,your's are
fine,,she melted the piston then the ring cought the port..
fine,,she melted the piston then the ring cought the port..
03viperguy
Moderator
he speaks the truth, the update for the 97 was the 98 pistons etc
horkn
New member
03viperguy said:
thats good to hear, but of little consolation when he obviously needs new pistons now
the smart carbs are basically normal flat slides that the non smart carbs came with. as far as cleaning and such, thye are not really any different.
did you on board diagnostic give you any warning lights indicating the smart carbs had a problem? it is jsut a few solenoids, and ususally they seem to be pretty reliable.
FuzzButt
New member
I concur with the others. You should really look for a tell tale cause here and not just clean it up and hope for the best.
However FWIW when mine let go I just used my mity-vac and about a quart of 2 stroke and cleaned up the crankcase and washed the bearings real good. No damage at all and I drove it 20+ miles at 40MPH after the motor let go. Yes on 1 cylinder.
The head looks like mine did as well.
You should have a lot more carbon on those piston tops and why are your plugs white? after mine let go the bad cylinder was silver but the good one was chocolate still.
However FWIW when mine let go I just used my mity-vac and about a quart of 2 stroke and cleaned up the crankcase and washed the bearings real good. No damage at all and I drove it 20+ miles at 40MPH after the motor let go. Yes on 1 cylinder.
The head looks like mine did as well.
You should have a lot more carbon on those piston tops and why are your plugs white? after mine let go the bad cylinder was silver but the good one was chocolate still.
dabear95
New member
I'm not going to have a chance to clean the carbs until next week. I hope that both carbs are dirty otherwise the cause will be harder to find.
The plug you see was a new plug. You do not want to see the plug that was in that cylinder when it went. I just screwed this one in to keep the dirt out for the ride home. I have the burn down plug in my pocket to show people the carnage.
The plug you see was a new plug. You do not want to see the plug that was in that cylinder when it went. I just screwed this one in to keep the dirt out for the ride home. I have the burn down plug in my pocket to show people the carnage.
03viperguy
Moderator
now, those smart carbs use something to adjust for temp, maybe that is clogged and leaned it out? how do those things work? got me interested to see what is going on in that motor lol!
horkn
New member
03viperguy said:
yes they do, but I can't find the "port" for the smart carb that some here talk about that gets glogged with belt dust, esp on the pto side.
If I find it, I will take a pic and post it here.
a TY'er pmed me a while back about a friends 97 venture6 that had occasional plug fouling issues, and it was cured by cleaning this port out from getting filled with belt dust.
dont be afraid to split the cases,all you need is a steering wheel puller to get the flywheel off.those crank seals are only about 20 bucks a piece.i was totally intimidated to do it,then i just went for it and its really quite simple.jusy pay close attention.