Yamidude59
New member
Mopar1 i know what you have to say already, but i was wondering if anyone else on here has any info about that encapsulated Roller Kit, From what i know it replaces the old helix and other components.... But don't know exactly everything about it, if i drop 200 some bucks down on this kit i wanna know what i am gaining, the guy i talked to stands by this kit with his life it seems...... He says drop it in with a 50/46 helix and your good to go.... with a few other tuning specs to the clutch....
I ride aggresive trail and i am happy with what i have in it stock, everything in my sled is stock, bone stock, i'm happy to get anything to make it even better though, and this guy says "you wont be disappointed"
I think i wanna try it out.......
I wanna get reeds, but everyone says, don't get reeds.... Why not? the ones i got in it stock are probably original and i have 4600mi on the sled.... I'm lookin at the V-force3 deltas.... Can you guys tell me why i shouldnt get reeds? i heard you gotta rejet, but don't i only do that once i put it in and leave it alone? i ride in temps that don't get to about 0 degrees up to 32.
i'm getting mixed opinions...
i'm looking for THE answer
thanks.
I ride aggresive trail and i am happy with what i have in it stock, everything in my sled is stock, bone stock, i'm happy to get anything to make it even better though, and this guy says "you wont be disappointed"
I think i wanna try it out.......
I wanna get reeds, but everyone says, don't get reeds.... Why not? the ones i got in it stock are probably original and i have 4600mi on the sled.... I'm lookin at the V-force3 deltas.... Can you guys tell me why i shouldnt get reeds? i heard you gotta rejet, but don't i only do that once i put it in and leave it alone? i ride in temps that don't get to about 0 degrees up to 32.
i'm getting mixed opinions...
i'm looking for THE answer
thanks.
Stock yamaha reeds work incredibly well. Is $300 worth 1/2 hp? Is your stock clutching really bad? Do you know it is? You can spend $3 on rivets & get the same gain. Worth it????? Did you see all the er stuff for sale at haydays? Tons of it. I tuned a few sleds that had that system. Save ur cash! Bottom line on clutching is
are the shives smokin hot after a few wide open throttle runs(belt slip)
Can it be fixed by adding some primary weight or secondary settings by 10 degrees tighter or looser?
are the shives smokin hot after a few wide open throttle runs(belt slip)
Can it be fixed by adding some primary weight or secondary settings by 10 degrees tighter or looser?
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Yamidude59
New member
no they weren't hot at all, the belt wasn't even hot.... I'm just looking for a little more pop in my clutching, but i know nothing, and i'm trying to get ideas from a whole bunch of different people, but i want one true set up that will work, i don't want to keep switching out weights and what not.... How much of a gain will i truely get out of a clutch kit over stock? thats my main question. Out of the box i love it, i don't really see how it can get any better.... but then again i don't know much about clutch work.
cacsrx1
New member
If you dont know much about clutching do a search and use one of the proven combinations....you wont be able to do much better. Do not spend the money on the ER secondary, it is an expensive paper weight. The primary cover is a nice piece, but still not nessesary.
what you need to do is the reed stopper notch mod, its in the tech pages, that and drill the stock exhaust also on the tech pages. read every description on clutch theory on this and every other site. then use a turk kit from the tech pages, the information you learned from reading will help you know what your changing and why as well as what might be wrong if its not performing as it should.
the secondary you are talking about is a good piece but it is probly the worst bang for the buck for that sled if your looking to improve the sled. a button clutch will work as good if tuned correctly in almost all conditions. the advantages that clutch or any roller gives is consistancy and a few other options that people really dont need. they are mostly a gadget for guys that love clutching and love gadgets. If your sled is clutched correctly with a roller or with the buttons it will be just as fast and upshift the same with both.
short answer, rollers are not the end all be all of clutching. save your money unless you like boballs on your sled(like i do).
the mods in the tech and the clutching in tech will be way better money spent.
turk is the man on clucthing
the secondary you are talking about is a good piece but it is probly the worst bang for the buck for that sled if your looking to improve the sled. a button clutch will work as good if tuned correctly in almost all conditions. the advantages that clutch or any roller gives is consistancy and a few other options that people really dont need. they are mostly a gadget for guys that love clutching and love gadgets. If your sled is clutched correctly with a roller or with the buttons it will be just as fast and upshift the same with both.
short answer, rollers are not the end all be all of clutching. save your money unless you like boballs on your sled(like i do).
the mods in the tech and the clutching in tech will be way better money spent.
turk is the man on clucthing
This for the srx in your profile?? If so then the dn-20s loaded up and the 51/43 or 48/40 will work quite well and cost next to nothing. If you don't have the parts handy I think Mr. Viper has a complete set up listed for sale.
mopar1rules
Active member
turk, i only seen 1 guy with 2 hi-tech products for sale and i bought 'em both. i didn't see anything else up there besides what i bought. where did you see all the hi-tech stuff?
cacsrx1, the reason you call it a paperweight, is because you didn't have the correct helix and spring combo. i think you were trying to run a straight 52, which is way too aggressive on the finish angle and even a little too aggressive on the upshift, and i don't recall the spring you were using.
BETHEVIPER, i don't think the reed stopper notch is neccessary on the srx's. i took a stock reed cage assembly and inserted it into a cylinder that i have here laying around and can see that its not blocking off the boost port. that's the reason for the reed stopper notch. its to unblock some of the flow that the reed stopper is blocking, but that's on the reed head motors.
cacsrx1, the reason you call it a paperweight, is because you didn't have the correct helix and spring combo. i think you were trying to run a straight 52, which is way too aggressive on the finish angle and even a little too aggressive on the upshift, and i don't recall the spring you were using.
BETHEVIPER, i don't think the reed stopper notch is neccessary on the srx's. i took a stock reed cage assembly and inserted it into a cylinder that i have here laying around and can see that its not blocking off the boost port. that's the reason for the reed stopper notch. its to unblock some of the flow that the reed stopper is blocking, but that's on the reed head motors.
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cacsrx1
New member
mopar1rules said:
Turk and BETHEVIPER have forgot more about clutching than you will ever know
....end of story.
mopar1rules
Active member
cacsrx1 said:Turk and BETHEVIPER have forgot more about clutching than you will ever know
they must have bad memories then....lol
(you typed it wrong)cacsrx1, you simply didn't have good luck with hi-tech, cause of improper setup. ex....if i gave you a brand new push pen, cause your old pen went dry, and you came back to me complaining about how it doesn't write any better than the old one, and i just gave it a click of the push button (so end of pen would stick out, cause you didn't do so) and now it writes better than the old dried out pen, would that still mean its junk? same thing with the hi-tech....wrong helix/spring used (dried out pen or improperly used new pen), bad end results.....correct helix/spring used (pen end sticking out), then you will have good results. don't give the hi-tech a bad name, simply because you didn't have the proper setup. another ex....you put a nice high compression billet head on your engine and you run it and it blows up because of deto, does it mean the heads junk......NO, you simply had wronge setup. you needed a higher octane fuel, just like you need a different helix/spring combo. so, the stuff isn't junk, you just didn't have the stuff setup properly.
I had really good results with my er roller. I listened to Dwain and set it up with his help. Never smoked a belt, had awesome backshift, and was dependable. Maxdlx
mopar1rules
Active member
maxdlx said:
i know.....right. i have great belt clamp. hardly any heat in the sheaves and backshifts smootly and quickly.
maxdlx, what helix/spring were you using? how was your primary setup? what sled did you have it on?
cacsrx1
New member
mopar1rules said:they must have bad memories then....lol
cacsrx1, you simply didn't have good luck with hi-tech, cause of improper setup. ex....if i gave you a brand new push pen, cause your old pen went dry, and you came back to me complaining about how it doesn't write any better than the old one, and i just gave it a click of the push button (so end of pen would stick out, cause you didn't do so) and now it writes better than the old dried out pen, would that still mean its junk? same thing with the hi-tech....wrong helix/spring used (dried out pen or improperly used new pen), bad end results.....correct helix/spring used (pen end sticking out), then you will have good results. don't give the hi-tech a bad name, simply because you didn't have the proper setup. another ex....you put a nice high compression billet head on your engine and you run it and it blows up because of deto, does it mean the heads junk......NO, you simply had wronge setup. you needed a higher octane fuel, just like you need a different helix/spring combo. so, the stuff isn't junk, you just didn't have the stuff setup properly.
You are right I did type it wrong. What I said wasnt meant as a slam to you or anybody else, other than HiTech. When Turk tells you to try this, or use this, and dont buy this, its usually the best advise your gonna get. If you have money to burn, then buy all means buy a HiTech. The shear weight of the thing most likely eats up any gains you would obtain buy having it perfectly set up.
BTW I used exactly what was recommened to me,..... when the guy would answer the phone. I got the line "multiangle helixes are a cover up for piss pore clutching, I wont cut you one, you dont need it." Yes I did. After a couple hundred dollars worth of helixes and springs, it never did work right, I was told there was something wrong with my sled. Borrowed a stock RX1 secondary, bought a $20 green spring, and ended up with a nearly perfect shift curve, not 9000RPM out of the hole and 7600 on top. So yes I do have a bone to pick with HiTech....arent they the same guys that built the Paragon secondary that all the Mtn guys bought. Ask around on Snowest and see what those guys think of HiTech, stress cracks, clutches stuck open, no customer support etc.
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ExpertXViper
New member
mopar1rules said:they must have bad memories then....lol
cacsrx1, you simply didn't have good luck with hi-tech, cause of improper setup. ex....if i gave you a brand new push pen, cause your old pen went dry, and you came back to me complaining about how it doesn't write any better than the old one, and i just gave it a click of the push button (so end of pen would stick out, cause you didn't do so) and now it writes better than the old dried out pen, would that still mean its junk? same thing with the hi-tech....wrong helix/spring used (dried out pen or improperly used new pen), bad end results.....correct helix/spring used (pen end sticking out), then you will have good results. don't give the hi-tech a bad name, simply because you didn't have the proper setup. another ex....you put a nice high compression billet head on your engine and you run it and it blows up because of deto, does it mean the heads junk......NO, you simply had wronge setup. you needed a higher octane fuel, just like you need a different helix/spring combo. so, the stuff isn't junk, you just didn't have the stuff setup properly.
That still doesnt change the fact that every clutching thread I see your in there ranting and raving to everyone to buy a E.R roller. You make it sound like its the best and only option to make the sled perf. well, when in all its not. If that were true wouldnt you think more of the KNOWN clutching gurus would be suggesting it more than you do??? Id think so...I see more setups being suggested by them using OEM parts with the use of a OEM or A/M helix. I also know that you make it sound to everyone like youve been clutching sleds as long as some of those gurus have been. When I know thats not true, cause sorry to say I took the time out of my life to read your threads/posts and most are less than a year old. But Im not going to take up my time to dig those up for ya, if people dont believe me then use the advance search option and start reading.
mopar1rules
Active member
cacsrx1-yes, the hi-techs can be a bit heavy. it depends who you got it from (duane or john) and what version who have. i lightened up both of mine and they're still plenty strong and now light. the paragon clutch was kind of a flop. nice concept on how the sheaves open and close, but heavy. i never heard of crack issues. are you thinking of the hyperlite?
ExpertXViper-i have had GREAT luck with the hi-tech er and have found some good setups with it, so yes, i will rant about it. i'm was being no different than all the folks on here, that rant about running a 51/43 helix, green sec spring, 4.5g each hole on 8dn-20's, and www spring for a srx. we know there's better setups out there than that, so why don't you bark at those guys for ranting that setup up. probably half of those ranting folks haven't even clutched a sled before. i know of one in particluar that knows nothing about clutching, but will copy/paste setups and rant about this or that. i'm not going to disclose the name of the individual. i never meant to act like a "clutching god" either, so sorry if i came off that way. so, some of my posts are less than a year old. what does that have to do with anything? that doesn't mean that i don't know anything....which i think is something that you are trying to imply. i've learned alot and done alot in the last year. also, you say that i rant and rant about the hi-tech, but how do you know if its no good? you ever try one personally? probably the only reason you think its junk, is cause the more popular names on this site, don't talk about it. so, do you only do what those known guys say? if they don't talk about it, you don't use it? do you ever venture out and try other things out, and maybe come accross another good setup or maybe discover a better setup? i hate how people just do whatever the popular names on here say. don't get me wrong, they are intelligent individuals, and i can see how one would want to do what they say, but there are people on this site that are probably older than them, probably been doing things longer than them, and might even have most of there posts in the last year, if they have been mute on hear for a long time. so looking at when there posts were and stuff like that, means nothing. you could have a new individual join this site today, that has clutched hundreds of yamahas and would have some good setups, but you probably wouldn't listen to what he has to say, due to his # of post and new unpopular name. also, the reason that many of the clutch setups that get posted, have OEM parts suggested, is because they are readily available for cheap and because you can get a better setup than stock with it. you can have a better setup than stock with a hi-tech too, but you usually can't find the parts cheap or used.
i'm done here.
ExpertXViper-i have had GREAT luck with the hi-tech er and have found some good setups with it, so yes, i will rant about it. i'm was being no different than all the folks on here, that rant about running a 51/43 helix, green sec spring, 4.5g each hole on 8dn-20's, and www spring for a srx. we know there's better setups out there than that, so why don't you bark at those guys for ranting that setup up. probably half of those ranting folks haven't even clutched a sled before. i know of one in particluar that knows nothing about clutching, but will copy/paste setups and rant about this or that. i'm not going to disclose the name of the individual. i never meant to act like a "clutching god" either, so sorry if i came off that way. so, some of my posts are less than a year old. what does that have to do with anything? that doesn't mean that i don't know anything....which i think is something that you are trying to imply. i've learned alot and done alot in the last year. also, you say that i rant and rant about the hi-tech, but how do you know if its no good? you ever try one personally? probably the only reason you think its junk, is cause the more popular names on this site, don't talk about it. so, do you only do what those known guys say? if they don't talk about it, you don't use it? do you ever venture out and try other things out, and maybe come accross another good setup or maybe discover a better setup? i hate how people just do whatever the popular names on here say. don't get me wrong, they are intelligent individuals, and i can see how one would want to do what they say, but there are people on this site that are probably older than them, probably been doing things longer than them, and might even have most of there posts in the last year, if they have been mute on hear for a long time. so looking at when there posts were and stuff like that, means nothing. you could have a new individual join this site today, that has clutched hundreds of yamahas and would have some good setups, but you probably wouldn't listen to what he has to say, due to his # of post and new unpopular name. also, the reason that many of the clutch setups that get posted, have OEM parts suggested, is because they are readily available for cheap and because you can get a better setup than stock with it. you can have a better setup than stock with a hi-tech too, but you usually can't find the parts cheap or used.
i'm done here.
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Yamidude59
New member
just get me a tried and trued clutch set up now.......... i don't want everyones input, i want the one person on here who knows what they are doing, right now my clutches are great, but i kn ow there is room for improvement.... Clutch set up numbers..... 8dn 20's green primary spring? or what!
v-force 3 reeds! to get or not to get i want the best in my sled, yes... i have "money to burn" i save for a reason.... v-force are better then stock yes?
v-force 3 reeds! to get or not to get i want the best in my sled, yes... i have "money to burn" i save for a reason.... v-force are better then stock yes?
mopar1rules
Active member
dude, you keep asking all the same questions over and over, i told you your stock reeds are just fine. if you want, you can get some carbon tech petals and bolt them to the stock cages. i wouldn't even consider the vf3's, unless your ported, or big bored. you won't notice $hit with the vf3's on a stock motor. as for clutch setups.....i've told you some, fellas on here have told you some, the search function will tell you some, and if you look in the tech pages, you will find some there too. just pick one at this point and ride your sled this year. you keep asking all of us and me in your pm's, about clutch setups and all, because you don't know or are unsure of what to do, but then you don't listen to us that know, or have been down the same road before. just pick one of our suggested setups and be done. i just don't get you. if you want, just do what karbon tells you.
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Yamidude59
New member
because i want to be on the trails more then in the shop unlike most guys on here who "try" clutch set ups
mopar1rules
Active member
if you do exactly like i and karbon tell you, you will only be on the trails and not in the shop.
nailsandrails
VIP Member
You sure are demanding for a guy looking for help. Based on your replies. I'd suggest spending your money on the V-Force reeds and adding a can along with a cold air kit. Please report back and let us know how those mods work out for you. I'd hate to see a guy like you go out and waste a bunch of money.
cacsrx1 said:Turk and BETHEVIPER have forgot more about clutching than you will ever know
please dont degrade turks reputation by putting my name next to him. He is the teacher, I am the student.
also, sorry about the above post, i thought for some reason he was talking about a sx.
as for rollers, i have used a hauck/lightning pro version that uses the stock helixes for 8 years and have had no issues with it, replaced rollers a couple years ago. I love the theory of encapulated roller but I also can never remember a time when it was any problem.