What is everyone doing about it this winter. It must be oxygenated right. So you must have to jet up. It is 10% around hear. I already had problems with my wheeler twice.
PhatboyC
New member
It's been 10% for a couple of years in Ontario. Haven't heard anyone changing jet size. No problems reported.
mopar1rules
Active member
yamaha says to richen the main jets 1 size if running ethenol fuel or oxygenated fuel.
chance3131
New member
Man you guys sure are buying into the hype. You won't notice a difference as long as you don't let it sit for 3 months without fresh fuel.
FuzzButt
New member
Well we here in Michigan have been running E10 for years.
I plan on using the "Marine" formula of Sta-bil. Seems to work well in the outboard.
I plan on using the "Marine" formula of Sta-bil. Seems to work well in the outboard.
My wheeler only sat for a couple or weeks and the needle stuck in the seat bad enough that I had to use pliers to get it out. Good Stuff!
chance3131
New member
You can't blame ethanol for that without any kind of facts to back it up. We have been using it here for years. If you just keep fresh gas in and clean your carbs like you are suppose to before the season starts you will not have any problems caused by ethanol.
FuzzButt
New member
I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the 12 gallons of fresh 50:1 that is in my boat's tank and the 5+ year old premix that simply will not ignite in my old boat's tank.
Any premix I have left over from the summer ends up going into my snowblower for the winter. The damn things a pig but I don't usually have 5 gallons of premix either.
I had more carb problems in the mid 80's with non-ethanol gas than I do now with 10%. Biggest difference is where the sleds are stored for the summer.
I had more carb problems in the mid 80's with non-ethanol gas than I do now with 10%. Biggest difference is where the sleds are stored for the summer.
FuzzButt
New member
I have not changed from stock jetting for my altitude or the temps that we would normally expect. However if I was running in the mountains with varied elevations and temps I think it might be good to err on the side of caution. About 3% richer than the gas only chart calls for.
Basically the biggest concern I see right now is ethanol is hydrophilic. Meaning it attracts water. It also can separate in the fuel tank if allowed to sit long enough. So besides being lower in BTU by nearly 30% and needing 3% more fuel for the same amount of power the ethanol in the fuel has the added effect of holding water. So you can also have troubles with carburetor icing. My Vmax does this at times especially if I am riding in the cloud behind another snowmobiler. The venturi effect in the carburetor drops the pressure and temperature of the incoming air allowing it to develop ice crystals on it own if the conditions are right. Now add in the gas/ethanol/oil/water mix at the main jet and atomize it and you see the problem can get worse in a hurry. I think this is what ultimately caused my motor melt down 4 years ago. Or at the very least got the ball rolling in that direction.
Jim Barron (Trailer Boats Magazine Sept 2008) said:
Basically the biggest concern I see right now is ethanol is hydrophilic. Meaning it attracts water. It also can separate in the fuel tank if allowed to sit long enough. So besides being lower in BTU by nearly 30% and needing 3% more fuel for the same amount of power the ethanol in the fuel has the added effect of holding water. So you can also have troubles with carburetor icing. My Vmax does this at times especially if I am riding in the cloud behind another snowmobiler. The venturi effect in the carburetor drops the pressure and temperature of the incoming air allowing it to develop ice crystals on it own if the conditions are right. Now add in the gas/ethanol/oil/water mix at the main jet and atomize it and you see the problem can get worse in a hurry. I think this is what ultimately caused my motor melt down 4 years ago. Or at the very least got the ball rolling in that direction.
Well chance yes I can. Since they put ethanol in the gas around here I am not the only one that has problems. The local shops have said they have seen the same thing. It is not a gas gone bad isssue, ethanol absorbs water like a sponge and it is corosive, it is also a cleaner. So any crap inside the tank will be in the fuel and end up somewhere.
chance3131
New member
Must be because Vermont has different ethanol then the Midwest. Why are you putting your gas in with water? yes it absorbs water easier, but why do you have elevated levels of water where your gas is going? Others have been using it for years without all these complaints. If there really is an issue, then maybe it is bigger than ethanol itself, like storing practices and shipping practices that need to improve. I guess if you have crap in your tank, then the gas before was not of the highest quality either. Change your fuel filter before you put that horrible ethanol stuff in there.
yammiman
Member
...why do you have elevated levels of water where your gas is going?...
Almost every fuel system (including fuel storage tanks) are vented - ethanol absorbs water from the atmosphere through the venting - the longer it sits, the more it absorbs until it reaches its separation point - ethanol is not the only reason todays fuel has a shorter shelf life - the fact that it has less of the good stuff (toluene, benzine, xylene, etc.) and more of the bad stuff (ethanol, preservatives, etc.) is also why - if you buy your fuel in the winter from stations that don't sell large amounts of fuel, chances are you will have some water in it right out of the pump - had it happen many times - carry a can of non alcohol based octane boost (such as Amsoil) or even a small can of toluene (much cheaper) if you want some peace of mind!!
Almost every fuel system (including fuel storage tanks) are vented - ethanol absorbs water from the atmosphere through the venting - the longer it sits, the more it absorbs until it reaches its separation point - ethanol is not the only reason todays fuel has a shorter shelf life - the fact that it has less of the good stuff (toluene, benzine, xylene, etc.) and more of the bad stuff (ethanol, preservatives, etc.) is also why - if you buy your fuel in the winter from stations that don't sell large amounts of fuel, chances are you will have some water in it right out of the pump - had it happen many times - carry a can of non alcohol based octane boost (such as Amsoil) or even a small can of toluene (much cheaper) if you want some peace of mind!!
chance3131
New member
That is my point exactly. Yes it absorbs moisture easily, but you must be aware of that and plan for that. Use fresh fuel. Letting it sit a few days will not cause the problems that were describe unless there was a something more to the equation than just ethanol. It has been used for a couple of decades now with good results, and just now all of this is happening???? Sounds to me that someone has an adjenda. It must be the worst idea ever, because I never hear of anything good has come from ethanol. Sorry but I get sick of hearing all the negative publicity it when it has been around for many years in the midwest, that that is where it has been used for a long time with good results. I'm not saying that it is the end all answer, but is part of the solution of not paying an arm and a leg for fuel. By the way, can you tell I work for an ethanol company? LOL
yammiman
Member
....By the way, can you tell I work for an ethanol company?....
If that is true, then that explains everything - I think ethanol is nothing more than a political hoax that has been shoved down our thoats and ten years from now there are going to be alot of empty ethanol plants sitting around the country doing nothing but collecting dust!! - there has been very little or any benefit to our energy situation as the result of ethanol - but alot of people who have been behind it and others who have invested in it will have made alot of money and that is the sole reason it has evolved!! JMHO!!
If that is true, then that explains everything - I think ethanol is nothing more than a political hoax that has been shoved down our thoats and ten years from now there are going to be alot of empty ethanol plants sitting around the country doing nothing but collecting dust!! - there has been very little or any benefit to our energy situation as the result of ethanol - but alot of people who have been behind it and others who have invested in it will have made alot of money and that is the sole reason it has evolved!! JMHO!!
I think some guys here may be confusing e-85 and 10% blends. Just thought that should be stated to make sure you are all debating the same product.
chance3131
New member
Yammiman,
"I think ethanol is nothing more than a political hoax that has been shoved down our thoats and ten years from now there are going to be alot of empty ethanol plants sitting around the country doing nothing but collecting dust!! " There is a lot of truth to that, but what else are you going to do? Ethanol has helped reduce the need for foreign oil. At 10% blend, that is taking 10% of need foreign oil out of each gallon of gas. I'm sure you can lower that number a little seeing it takes fuel to get the corn to and from the ethanol plant, but it is still reducing the demand. If it was not ethanol, there would be something else being shoved down our throats because something has to be done. Ethanol is not the total answer. A lot of money was spent to build all of these ethanol plants because there was money to be made. That is the american way. The same thing happened in the oil refinery business until the 80's when over half of the us refineries shutdown in a decade. There is a lot of bad publicity generated by big oil against ethanol, so believe what you want but there is good in it. Like I said, ethanol is not the answer to our dependence on foreign oil, but it is part of the solution. Either way we go, it is going to cost a lot of money to get away from it, and if you are happy about sending your money over seas to countries that want us to fail, so be it. I would rather pay a little more for things here, to keep our money here. Atleast I feel a little better about it. Thanks for the discussion, and try not to believe everything you hear or read.
"I think ethanol is nothing more than a political hoax that has been shoved down our thoats and ten years from now there are going to be alot of empty ethanol plants sitting around the country doing nothing but collecting dust!! " There is a lot of truth to that, but what else are you going to do? Ethanol has helped reduce the need for foreign oil. At 10% blend, that is taking 10% of need foreign oil out of each gallon of gas. I'm sure you can lower that number a little seeing it takes fuel to get the corn to and from the ethanol plant, but it is still reducing the demand. If it was not ethanol, there would be something else being shoved down our throats because something has to be done. Ethanol is not the total answer. A lot of money was spent to build all of these ethanol plants because there was money to be made. That is the american way. The same thing happened in the oil refinery business until the 80's when over half of the us refineries shutdown in a decade. There is a lot of bad publicity generated by big oil against ethanol, so believe what you want but there is good in it. Like I said, ethanol is not the answer to our dependence on foreign oil, but it is part of the solution. Either way we go, it is going to cost a lot of money to get away from it, and if you are happy about sending your money over seas to countries that want us to fail, so be it. I would rather pay a little more for things here, to keep our money here. Atleast I feel a little better about it. Thanks for the discussion, and try not to believe everything you hear or read.
yammiman
Member
....try not to believe everything you hear or read....
I don't believe anything I hear and I research quite extensively before I form an opinion - I don't want to get into a big long political debate over it, so we will have to wait until this winter and we are out on the trail (I see you are from MI) and we can have the discussion over a totty - I'll give you a hint - Archer Daniels Midland!!
I don't believe anything I hear and I research quite extensively before I form an opinion - I don't want to get into a big long political debate over it, so we will have to wait until this winter and we are out on the trail (I see you are from MI) and we can have the discussion over a totty - I'll give you a hint - Archer Daniels Midland!!
chance3131
New member
Excuse my ignorance, but I dont' know anything about Archer Daniels. It sounds familar, but I don't have a clue what it is. Either way, it would be nice to see you out on the trail. I can't wait for the snow. Hope it is a good winter.
mod-it
Member
Just do some plug checks and make sure jetting is ok. My manual says to jet up two sizes. Most don't run their jetting that tight so they get away with it. This will be the first year I run it in my sled, can't find anywhere without it. I guess I'll find out if I need to richen up or not when I can finally go for a ride. When I blocked all my under hood air trying to get rid of the powder bog last year my sled leaned out enough that I don't have near as much room for err now.