gwinnraptor
New member
Does anybody think Yamaha will ever bring back the 2-stroke, easy to work on sled again?
Will Ford go back to making the model T???? Easy to work on!!!
yamaha 2 strokes are never coming back in anything they make. I believe the last 2 strokes for them were the banshee and blaster quads and they have both been discontinued and replaced a few years back.
skidoo in my opinion is the only company serious about keeping some sort of two strokes in their lines. They have very innovative ideas with the etecs and if they keep working on them and developing them, the 2 stroke phase will never leave their lines.
I would try one of those etecs from brp if your interested in keeping 2 strokes.
skidoo has alot of good things going for them, they just need to learn to put more reliability in their products.
Yamaha has kinda dissapointed me in the fact that they don't seem to want to raise the bar for themselves. They have good ideas going with the nytro chassis and hopefully they improve it alot. the problem is even though I love yamahas, they are just way too darn heavy, and even if its because theres quality in their chassis it still does not and will not out perform the chassis brp builds. I wish they would step it up and show skidoo they aint the only great handling/riding product out there.
I recently was at the local dealer which sells yamis and doos. I test rode both the nytro and the mxzx 600 etec. I don't care what anyone says, there is not any comparison between them. Skidoos design is so nice and fun to ride, and the nytro is ridiculous with handling. I stopped and tried to pick them both up as if I got stuck. The doo moves with ease an the yami just about was like lifting a car. I know for me at least I dont want to have to load and unload that much wieght to get my sled places, I dont want to have to lift that much on the trail, and I sure as hell don't want to drive that much through the twisties. I want a new yamaha bad, but I'm not dealing with owning something recreational that weighs so darn much, and is so hard to operate. I really wish brp and yamaha would get together to make a sled, they both have extremely good products with big flaws. It seems each flaw of one is an excell of the other. Would make a great product knowone could beat.
Yamaha just doesn't seem to want to push the envelope that much. I think personally they should have built a new chassis with a new 2 stroke back when they jumped right into 4 strokes. They lost too much ground in that transition. yamaha triples were awsome 2 strokes, they could have made it work long enough to build a really good chassis and now at this point have a great chassis tried and true for the 4 strokes to enter. But oh well..
skidoo in my opinion is the only company serious about keeping some sort of two strokes in their lines. They have very innovative ideas with the etecs and if they keep working on them and developing them, the 2 stroke phase will never leave their lines.
I would try one of those etecs from brp if your interested in keeping 2 strokes.
skidoo has alot of good things going for them, they just need to learn to put more reliability in their products.
Yamaha has kinda dissapointed me in the fact that they don't seem to want to raise the bar for themselves. They have good ideas going with the nytro chassis and hopefully they improve it alot. the problem is even though I love yamahas, they are just way too darn heavy, and even if its because theres quality in their chassis it still does not and will not out perform the chassis brp builds. I wish they would step it up and show skidoo they aint the only great handling/riding product out there.
I recently was at the local dealer which sells yamis and doos. I test rode both the nytro and the mxzx 600 etec. I don't care what anyone says, there is not any comparison between them. Skidoos design is so nice and fun to ride, and the nytro is ridiculous with handling. I stopped and tried to pick them both up as if I got stuck. The doo moves with ease an the yami just about was like lifting a car. I know for me at least I dont want to have to load and unload that much wieght to get my sled places, I dont want to have to lift that much on the trail, and I sure as hell don't want to drive that much through the twisties. I want a new yamaha bad, but I'm not dealing with owning something recreational that weighs so darn much, and is so hard to operate. I really wish brp and yamaha would get together to make a sled, they both have extremely good products with big flaws. It seems each flaw of one is an excell of the other. Would make a great product knowone could beat.
Yamaha just doesn't seem to want to push the envelope that much. I think personally they should have built a new chassis with a new 2 stroke back when they jumped right into 4 strokes. They lost too much ground in that transition. yamaha triples were awsome 2 strokes, they could have made it work long enough to build a really good chassis and now at this point have a great chassis tried and true for the 4 strokes to enter. But oh well..
stretchSXV
New member
Well said Pete. I do notice riding Tug Hill that most Yami's have a different skid in them. I also know that you see 100x more doo's. I go as far as to say Yami is last in number of sleds here in upstate NY. Can't say it's brand loyalty either. I'm trying to be loyal to Yami but the new 4 strokes just don't do it for me. I'd kill for a Viper 2 stroke in a Rev body. 
gwinnraptor
New member
well said maxout! My family had been trying to push me into the whole 4 stroke phase last year and i finally bit. I bought a 2006 apex rtx and a 08 phazer GT for my wife.
Love the power of the apex, but it handles uncomfortably after 60mph.
Phazer is very fun, but sort of gutless. I fouled the plugs in the phazer earlier this winter and it took me just shy of 2 hours to replace them. I could put w new top end on an old 2 stroke in that amount of time. To replace the plugs i had to take all panels off, windshield off, seat had to come off, gas tank had to be disconnected and removed and slid back a bit, and then i needed a special swivel socket about 7-8" long to get down in the head....just so i didnt have to take more stuff off. The plugs are down in the head about 6-7 inches....which makes it tough to replace them.
My apex is like a submarine if i am ever out in the field playing around. Phazer could be fun in a field IF it had a longer track, a bit more HP, and also the suspension is just plain not good for a bigger guy.
Unfortunately i was told december 23rd I most likely will be getting laid off of work for a while. So, these sleds are now for sale in TY4stroke.com forums.
If i can sell these to get out of the loan and survive the economy's downturn i would definately get a ski doo. the rider forward design and handling is hands down better than Yamaha. It hurts saying that because i have rode yamaha everything for the last 15 years, but i am not impressed with the 4 strokes and would really like something better handling and riding.
I personally would like to see the old Yamaha triples in a rev chassis as well. Something that you can still work on if need be on the side of the trail.
Dont kill me for saying this, but i think that once the American engineers got involved with designing the sleds and the jap's were phased out i think their sled design has went downhill. Its impossible to work on the new 4 strokes. If i foul a plug on either of my machines i will have to take the belt off and tow them home. The only way i would be able to change plugs in either the phazer or apex on the side of the trail would be if i towed around my tool box with me. The tool kit aint going to get anything done to these things.
I jumped on the 4 stroke wagon, and am now having second thoughts.
Love the power of the apex, but it handles uncomfortably after 60mph.
Phazer is very fun, but sort of gutless. I fouled the plugs in the phazer earlier this winter and it took me just shy of 2 hours to replace them. I could put w new top end on an old 2 stroke in that amount of time. To replace the plugs i had to take all panels off, windshield off, seat had to come off, gas tank had to be disconnected and removed and slid back a bit, and then i needed a special swivel socket about 7-8" long to get down in the head....just so i didnt have to take more stuff off. The plugs are down in the head about 6-7 inches....which makes it tough to replace them.
My apex is like a submarine if i am ever out in the field playing around. Phazer could be fun in a field IF it had a longer track, a bit more HP, and also the suspension is just plain not good for a bigger guy.
Unfortunately i was told december 23rd I most likely will be getting laid off of work for a while. So, these sleds are now for sale in TY4stroke.com forums.
If i can sell these to get out of the loan and survive the economy's downturn i would definately get a ski doo. the rider forward design and handling is hands down better than Yamaha. It hurts saying that because i have rode yamaha everything for the last 15 years, but i am not impressed with the 4 strokes and would really like something better handling and riding.
I personally would like to see the old Yamaha triples in a rev chassis as well. Something that you can still work on if need be on the side of the trail.
Dont kill me for saying this, but i think that once the American engineers got involved with designing the sleds and the jap's were phased out i think their sled design has went downhill. Its impossible to work on the new 4 strokes. If i foul a plug on either of my machines i will have to take the belt off and tow them home. The only way i would be able to change plugs in either the phazer or apex on the side of the trail would be if i towed around my tool box with me. The tool kit aint going to get anything done to these things.
I jumped on the 4 stroke wagon, and am now having second thoughts.
Turk said:
LMAO! If only ehh!
stretchSXV said:Well said Pete. I do notice riding Tug Hill that most Yami's have a different skid in them. I also know that you see 100x more doo's. I go as far as to say Yami is last in number of sleds here in upstate NY. Can't say it's brand loyalty either. I'm trying to be loyal to Yami but the new 4 strokes just don't do it for me. I'd kill for a Viper 2 stroke in a Rev body.
Thanks!! You get that viper together?? My doo took an ugly hit and the yami blew a clutch so I'm out completely right now.. sucks!
stretchSXV
New member
maxout01 said:
Nope. Got my hours and pay cut at work so Now I'm looking for a PT job to make up for the money I've lost at work. I think my No-action skid just crapped the bed in the viper so That might be down until I come up cash to put the m-10 in then I'll ride it for one more year and hope Yami comes out with something if not I'm getting a second Doo.
sandmanmike1
New member
I have been a diehard Yamaha fan. That is all we have owned since 1983. My current sled is a 94 Vmax 600 ST 136" with a 2000 Yamaha Venture skid. It helped the ride some. When I get a new sled I am seriously considering the Arctic Cat Crossfire, Sabrecat or Firecat. Yamaha sleds just doesn't seem to be agile anymore. You can feel the extra weight under you way to much. They are slowly getting better but if they do not do something soon it will be too late. Alot of loyal Yamaha fans have jumped ship already. If I go with a Arctic I will stick with there older chassis because the new ones are heavy and look like Barney the purple dinosaur. I recently rode my friends 2005 Arctic Cat Firecat F7 Sno Pro and was really impressed. Another friend just picked up 2 new Nytro's so I will be able to jump from the Nytro to the Cat to do a side by side comparison. I know Arctic Cat had there share of chassis problems but have since resolved them. And you have to admit those Suzuki powerplants run strong. Yamaha's Phazer and Nytro are nice but on a long trip I would think lack of wind protection and the extra weight would put a hurting on you. Due to the economy I get to wait 1 more year to get a new sled so we will see what is next. I am sure Yamaha has a few sled ideas ready to go into production. They may just be waiting to see how reliable the Rev XP and XR chassis is and 1 up them, which we all know Yamaha can do. also there has been talks of Honda getting into sled market which would be their biggest competion in my opinion.
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stretchSXV said:
sorry to here that man.. Not much better here either.. lets all hope for a much better 2009. Dealer just called about my doo... 1300.00 repair!! I 'll deal with it for that!!
If you need some sled help let me know.
All of my toys are yamaha, water craft, dirt bikes, sleds, quads...ect. But I have yet to ride one of there 4 stroke sleds that satisfies me to drop 10 grand.. Yes with a turbo and longer track ect...more $$ it gets close.
That is why I still ride my SRX's. I do want a new sled, but I would be hard pressed to by a new Yami.. Hate to say it, Both of my neighbors have the new Polaris RMK 800's, What a nice machine.... So far my cash is leaning that way... Granted 4 stroke everything is somewhere in the near future, and reliablity is a wonderful thing, But I believe Yamaha can find some better medium ground of a better sled design with lighter weight, Yet still be reliable.
I mean if all those people buy doo's and they know of there reliablity, You would think Yamaha would realize what the market wants.
They jumped out of the 2 stroke game prematurely IMO.
That is why I still ride my SRX's. I do want a new sled, but I would be hard pressed to by a new Yami.. Hate to say it, Both of my neighbors have the new Polaris RMK 800's, What a nice machine.... So far my cash is leaning that way... Granted 4 stroke everything is somewhere in the near future, and reliablity is a wonderful thing, But I believe Yamaha can find some better medium ground of a better sled design with lighter weight, Yet still be reliable.
I mean if all those people buy doo's and they know of there reliablity, You would think Yamaha would realize what the market wants.
They jumped out of the 2 stroke game prematurely IMO.
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"They are slowly getting better but if they do not do something soon it will be too late. Alot of loyal Yamaha fans have jumped ship already."
You hit the nail right on the head. Its like a new look with old skin. Alot of people are jumping ship, including me!
"I mean if all those people buy doo's and they know of there reliablity, You would think Yamaha would realize what the market wants."
Alot of the relaitbilty stuff I have found is either bunk, or just from people beating the hell out of thier sled and not taking care of them. With that said still not as reliable as a yami. But way more fun!!!
You hit the nail right on the head. Its like a new look with old skin. Alot of people are jumping ship, including me!
"I mean if all those people buy doo's and they know of there reliablity, You would think Yamaha would realize what the market wants."
Alot of the relaitbilty stuff I have found is either bunk, or just from people beating the hell out of thier sled and not taking care of them. With that said still not as reliable as a yami. But way more fun!!!
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stretchSXV
New member
I'd like to see a 800 e-tec. I'll head up to old forge again this year and ride all the sleds the big 4 have to offer. Each has something I like. I just can't see spending $10,000 on a sled and having problems with it. Crap I bought my viper for $6,000 brand new and it has kicked my butt in the skid department but I have to put another Grand in it to handle better then raise the seat and handle bars to handle my 6'2" frame. So it might be better buying a new one. 
Crap I bought my viper for $6,000 brand new and it has kicked my butt in the skid department but I have to put another Grand in it to handle better then raise the seat and handle bars to handle my 6'2" frame. So it might be better buying a new one.
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mike, you sure like to use the , lol!!! Just messing with ya! I want to go up to old forge this year too. I want to ride em all and see what I like the best.
, lol!!! Just messing with ya! I want to go up to old forge this year too. I want to ride em all and see what I like the best.
stretchSXV
New member
maxout01 said:mike, you sure like to use the
March 13 - 15, 2009 Snowfest in old forge. The big 4 will be there.
I'm taking the weekend off ahead of time, lol!! See you there? hopefully we can demo sleds together
horkn
New member
I am a big guy, so the weght of the fx nytro does not bother me. I agree that the slds should not push in corners, and if a 300 dollar set of skis fixes that, then I would be happy.
Outside of that, Polaris sleds have treated my family very well, so I have no hesitation to go get another polaris.
That said, yamaha I don't think will ever go back to 2 stroke sleds.
Outside of that, Polaris sleds have treated my family very well, so I have no hesitation to go get another polaris.
That said, yamaha I don't think will ever go back to 2 stroke sleds.
chitownpete@yahoo.com
New member
In my experience very few sleds come properly equipped from the factory for the real world. My Viper had a crappy track that barely hooked up even on groomed trails and got stuck off trail, my buds RX-1 handled like crap and overheated no matter how you tried . Imagine that, snowmobiles that overheat in 5 degree weather in perfect conditions and sleds that dont go or stop well in the snow! People who dont sled laugh at me when I tell them these stories and always comment on how stupid I am for owning instead of renting.If I buy another new sled its either decent from the factory or I will just wait out the 8 week season (if that much) and spend time overhauling my atv and motorcycles. How would you feel if you bought a boat that didn't work well on water or a convertible that didnt run well if the temp is over 50 degrees? As far as weight is concerned I think alot of Yamaha faithfull have realized that even Yamaha cant escape the laws of physics. Why are sleds such crap compared to every other power sport I have tried? I hate to say it but it feels great not to own a sled for the first time in 9 years. This may change soon if I get a good deal on a Viper S or a REV XP.
horkn
New member
I hear you Pete, If I did not have my cottage up North, I would not even own a sled.
I don't even trailer them anymore, I just drive 3 hours up north, open up the shed and ride. Even up north some seasons sure do not justify owning a sled, but the usual seasons of good riding make up for that.
To me only riding my motorcycle on a road course for a track day comes close to the fun I have on a sled on or off the trails.
I don't even trailer them anymore, I just drive 3 hours up north, open up the shed and ride. Even up north some seasons sure do not justify owning a sled, but the usual seasons of good riding make up for that.
To me only riding my motorcycle on a road course for a track day comes close to the fun I have on a sled on or off the trails.
Bakemono
New member
At least in snowmobiles, I dont think you will see Yamaha go back to 2-strokes. They have bet their future on 4-strokes and I think it would be seen as a step backwards for Yamaha to come out with a new 2-stroke sled.
They have the technology to rival any E-Tec motor (look at their 2-stroke boat motors), but I think that Yamaha believes that in the end, 4-strokes are going to win.
I would kind of like to see Yamaha make both 2-strokes and 4-strokes because Id like a sled that is lighter, simpler and less expensive and because I think Yamaha is missing out on a fair amount of marketshare by not making any 2-stroke sleds. No matter how good the 4-strokes are, you will always have people who want a 2-stroke and have no interest in owning a 4-stroke.
Heres something from the Yamaha sledtalk blog that you all mind find interesting:
http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/faq/
If you scroll down, it talks about why Yamaha went 4-stroke and basically they say that they didnt have the manpower to develop both 4-strokes and 2-strokes and that due to emission reasons, it made more sense for them to go 4-stroke and that they feel the powerband of a 4-stroke is more fun.
They have the technology to rival any E-Tec motor (look at their 2-stroke boat motors), but I think that Yamaha believes that in the end, 4-strokes are going to win.
I would kind of like to see Yamaha make both 2-strokes and 4-strokes because Id like a sled that is lighter, simpler and less expensive and because I think Yamaha is missing out on a fair amount of marketshare by not making any 2-stroke sleds. No matter how good the 4-strokes are, you will always have people who want a 2-stroke and have no interest in owning a 4-stroke.
Heres something from the Yamaha sledtalk blog that you all mind find interesting:
http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/faq/
If you scroll down, it talks about why Yamaha went 4-stroke and basically they say that they didnt have the manpower to develop both 4-strokes and 2-strokes and that due to emission reasons, it made more sense for them to go 4-stroke and that they feel the powerband of a 4-stroke is more fun.
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