horkn
New member
We have been running e10 for 15+ years here in Wi. I have not blown one motor up on any of my sleds, and I personally have not heard of anyone blowing their motors of any brand strictly due to the e10.
2strokinit
New member
hMM
have not heard of anyone blowing their motors of any brand strictly due to the e10
How would you know, unless they filled up and then it blew right away? Ill bet its more of a issue than you believe..IMO. I jetted up, Yammie recommends it and ethanol is a oxygenated fuel. Jets are cheap, I even run slightly higher oil/gas ratio, which worked for me in a Toomey piped banshee for 10yrs, 0 rebuilds, 0 fouled plugs, ran like a scalded dog.
have not heard of anyone blowing their motors of any brand strictly due to the e10
How would you know, unless they filled up and then it blew right away? Ill bet its more of a issue than you believe..IMO. I jetted up, Yammie recommends it and ethanol is a oxygenated fuel. Jets are cheap, I even run slightly higher oil/gas ratio, which worked for me in a Toomey piped banshee for 10yrs, 0 rebuilds, 0 fouled plugs, ran like a scalded dog.
Dave M
New member
We have had ethonal in gas in Michigan for years alos...not new this year...
I have ALOT more ice dams on the roof of my house this year....is this caused by ethonal also ??
My dog is eating alot more dog food this winter...did they put ethonal in his food also ???
This is going to turn into another "My motor blew up because I ran 1 pint of arctic cat oil"..
I have ALOT more ice dams on the roof of my house this year....is this caused by ethonal also ??
My dog is eating alot more dog food this winter...did they put ethonal in his food also ???
This is going to turn into another "My motor blew up because I ran 1 pint of arctic cat oil"..
2strokinit
New member
Alright then..
I have ALOT more ice dams on the roof of my house this year....is this caused by ethonal also
Yeah but you see what we have here is speculation, opinions so Id say Im as right as you are, thats unless you got hard data, which I doubt VERY MUCH.
What I do know is a melt down is becasue ITS TOO DAM HOT now isnt it, OR where'd the oil go. The fuel breaks down more, attrachs more water blah blah.. that we have data on.
My point isnt for everyone to go into hysteria over the issues, or be complete smart %*^% but get some nice feedback on what everyone one is doing to avoid burnup. Maybe you havent been reading the forums, but I see enough Im not just going to be lazy and do nothing, as you obvisuly suggest. Maybe had you installed some heater grid you wouldnt have that ice, and your roof wouldnt rot there. Rememeber an ounce of prevention saying...its all about self help here.
Jets are cheap, two more drops of oil are cheap, thats all I suggest. I wouldnt waste huges amounts of money with a billion dollar fix but cheap and cheerful you bet.
I appreciate all constructive feedback, information is power...besides I hate walking!!
I know what your implying....and Im looking for better than that..so move along...
I have ALOT more ice dams on the roof of my house this year....is this caused by ethonal also
Yeah but you see what we have here is speculation, opinions so Id say Im as right as you are, thats unless you got hard data, which I doubt VERY MUCH.
What I do know is a melt down is becasue ITS TOO DAM HOT now isnt it, OR where'd the oil go. The fuel breaks down more, attrachs more water blah blah.. that we have data on.
My point isnt for everyone to go into hysteria over the issues, or be complete smart %*^% but get some nice feedback on what everyone one is doing to avoid burnup. Maybe you havent been reading the forums, but I see enough Im not just going to be lazy and do nothing, as you obvisuly suggest. Maybe had you installed some heater grid you wouldnt have that ice, and your roof wouldnt rot there. Rememeber an ounce of prevention saying...its all about self help here.
Jets are cheap, two more drops of oil are cheap, thats all I suggest. I wouldnt waste huges amounts of money with a billion dollar fix but cheap and cheerful you bet.
I appreciate all constructive feedback, information is power...besides I hate walking!!
I know what your implying....and Im looking for better than that..so move along...
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Dave M
New member
2strokinit said:
Do you know what i'm implying ???
mdbauer62
Member
Keep in mind that this forum is all about healty debate, and the members all helping each other.
I think all would agree that there is little real argument that the quality of the fuel we buy has deteriorated significantly over the past few years, and that it has had a detrimental effect on the way our engines run. Some of this can be attributed to the new fuel blends intended to decrease emissions, dependancy on foreign oil, the National Ethanol Mandate, and even perhaps to the fuel suppliers, with some possible blame to the station owners for not monitoring the additional water in their storage tanks that is inevitable with ethanol blends. Note: I mananged a gas station for several years, and am quite familiar with water build up at the bottom of storage tanks, which is why they use floating fuel pickups) and the need to have the water pumped out regularly.
Whenever an engine fails there are likely to be multiple potential causes, and I support 2strokinit's opinion (as well as several other Sr. members) that everyone should pay closer attention to the way the carbs are set up, and to jet a little fatter to protect your engines. Also, some of the "tried and true" summer storage techniques (fill the tank, add stabil and run it till the carbs are full, then fog it till it quits) will simply not work if there is ethanol in the tank. Fogging, then draining the tank, carb bowls, and draining the fuel system are the safe way to store your sled if there is ethanol in your area.
Note: If you want some definitive proof of the adverse affect ethanol blends have on engines, get some popcorn and read the attached document issued by the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA). This is an association based in Wisconsin supporting the small aircraft owners, inlcuding homebuilt planes that use small, high horsepower engines similar to snomobiles, and operate in adverse temperature conditions (like snowmobiles).
Pay specific attention to page 2 and page 11.
I guess crap fuel is OK for ground based vehicles (since they don't fall thousands of feet if the engine fails), but not for those that fly......
I think all would agree that there is little real argument that the quality of the fuel we buy has deteriorated significantly over the past few years, and that it has had a detrimental effect on the way our engines run. Some of this can be attributed to the new fuel blends intended to decrease emissions, dependancy on foreign oil, the National Ethanol Mandate, and even perhaps to the fuel suppliers, with some possible blame to the station owners for not monitoring the additional water in their storage tanks that is inevitable with ethanol blends. Note: I mananged a gas station for several years, and am quite familiar with water build up at the bottom of storage tanks, which is why they use floating fuel pickups) and the need to have the water pumped out regularly.
Whenever an engine fails there are likely to be multiple potential causes, and I support 2strokinit's opinion (as well as several other Sr. members) that everyone should pay closer attention to the way the carbs are set up, and to jet a little fatter to protect your engines. Also, some of the "tried and true" summer storage techniques (fill the tank, add stabil and run it till the carbs are full, then fog it till it quits) will simply not work if there is ethanol in the tank. Fogging, then draining the tank, carb bowls, and draining the fuel system are the safe way to store your sled if there is ethanol in your area.
Note: If you want some definitive proof of the adverse affect ethanol blends have on engines, get some popcorn and read the attached document issued by the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA). This is an association based in Wisconsin supporting the small aircraft owners, inlcuding homebuilt planes that use small, high horsepower engines similar to snomobiles, and operate in adverse temperature conditions (like snowmobiles).
Pay specific attention to page 2 and page 11.
I guess crap fuel is OK for ground based vehicles (since they don't fall thousands of feet if the engine fails), but not for those that fly......
Dave M
New member
I agree with you about there being a fuel problem.... just not buying into it's 100% the fault of ethonal. What other additives are they putting into our splendid winter blend fuels that might be causing problems ??
It's just like the great oil debates you see on every forum.... 1 guy uses walmart oil and has great luck...another not so good....
I love a great debate also..it gives me something to do...guess I'm lazy.
It's just like the great oil debates you see on every forum.... 1 guy uses walmart oil and has great luck...another not so good....
I love a great debate also..it gives me something to do...guess I'm lazy.
2strokinit
New member
Yup..Yup
Im in no way angry with you..your opinion ((I think)) is that we've been in this situtation for some time, nothing new here, AGREED, and it isnt causing anymore or any less issue than before, and it isnt all blame ethanol.
I just know what I hear and see and MY sh*)& aint melting down. I hadnt even read any of those articles posted by Mdbauer62 and I read it..good read thx. This is what I was trying to provoke
KEEP ER PINNED!!!!
Im in no way angry with you..your opinion ((I think)) is that we've been in this situtation for some time, nothing new here, AGREED, and it isnt causing anymore or any less issue than before, and it isnt all blame ethanol.
I just know what I hear and see and MY sh*)& aint melting down. I hadnt even read any of those articles posted by Mdbauer62 and I read it..good read thx. This is what I was trying to provoke
KEEP ER PINNED!!!!
horkn
New member
It really depends on what base fuel is used to add the ethanol to it. If a low grade base fuel is added, you may run into issues... then again, you may not.
I know a good bit about ethanol as that industry was a customer of my former employer.
Snow tech and other people in the know agree with me. It's really easy to point a finger, but remember when you do that, you have 3 pointing back at you.
I know a good bit about ethanol as that industry was a customer of my former employer.
Snow tech and other people in the know agree with me. It's really easy to point a finger, but remember when you do that, you have 3 pointing back at you.
blue missile
New member
don't i remember a device that goes in your tank tube shaped and absorbs water kinda like a tampon for your sled every once in a while pull the sucker out and replace it. did these work? do they still sell them? i never used them and was wondering those simple questions. not sure if i posted on this before but i have buddies in the biz one owns a repair shop no burndowns this year that can be blamed on fuel he does have a sled in the shop that lost the pto cyl but it had a torn carb boot. the other guy owns a yami/doo dealership and they have had no burndowns that can be blamed on fuel. but that being said i don't want to be the first so i will take precaution not to be.
blue missile
New member
ok not sure on you're explanation of the water collecting device. if it traps the water and keeps it out of the fuel (absorbs it out of the fuel) how will that reduce the octane of the fuel.
mdbauer62
Member
A few (OK more than a few) years ago I used to use the "tank tampons" that were basically a plastic cage that held a porus bag full of some type of crystal, which swelled up and turned blue if there was water in the fuel. You could pull it out by the string, and look at the color. If it was blue, you know your fuel was contaminated. If you laid it out on a rag, it would dry out, and could be used again.
I stopped using it since I never saw water in my fuel, and it would sometimes tangle up in the fuel pick lines in the tank and I would have to use a thin wood dowel to untangle it.
I stopped using it since I never saw water in my fuel, and it would sometimes tangle up in the fuel pick lines in the tank and I would have to use a thin wood dowel to untangle it.
hereismylife
Active member
Very interesting stuff...
So here is an idea to help us out. tell me what you think.
Lets start with a stock sled to keep things simple.
Use octane booster at each fill up. Also put a water separator on the fuel line. Something to at least separate the water.
I do remember when this fuel came out there were boats having all kinds of problems. Basically it would just plug up your system and not hurt the engine. It was like running out of gas. 30 mile and you are done. Then the blue additive was brought out and took care of the problem with extra changes to the fuel system.
So here is an idea to help us out. tell me what you think.
Lets start with a stock sled to keep things simple.
Use octane booster at each fill up. Also put a water separator on the fuel line. Something to at least separate the water.
I do remember when this fuel came out there were boats having all kinds of problems. Basically it would just plug up your system and not hurt the engine. It was like running out of gas. 30 mile and you are done. Then the blue additive was brought out and took care of the problem with extra changes to the fuel system.
devvy2
New member
ethanol
Did you know that ethanol is used to bring the octane up on lower grade gas. This may be part of the problem. The gas blended with 10 % ethanol is of lower quality. It is one way for oil companies to get rid of crap fuel and still meet octane requirments. When ethanol leaves the plant it is 200 proof containing less than .01% water. Where does all the water come from?
Did you know that ethanol is used to bring the octane up on lower grade gas. This may be part of the problem. The gas blended with 10 % ethanol is of lower quality. It is one way for oil companies to get rid of crap fuel and still meet octane requirments. When ethanol leaves the plant it is 200 proof containing less than .01% water. Where does all the water come from?
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2strokinit
New member
c'mon
Me thinks you didn't read the whole thread. Have a look there is some good reading here.
Me thinks you didn't read the whole thread. Have a look there is some good reading here.
horkn
New member
2strokinit said:
I agree.
Also look up a few of the other recent ethanol threads and you will learn more....
hereismylife
Active member
no1chevyboy said:
What I meant it to have an upright fuel filter that is about 2 inches long. The water will set at the bottom and you can keep an eye on it.
devvy2
New member
Sorry I missed a couple of pages on the thread. The only filter that would take the water out of the ethanol would be a molecular sieve.
devvy2
New member
By the way a friend of mine only runs fuel with ethanol in his 97 sx 700, he has put over 7000 miles without a rebuild.
Viper-Rules!
New member
Just use ISO!
I find if you use a good iso fuel antifreeze and cleaner, such as stp, you shouldn't have issue's with eth. I have heard of this fuel eating out fuel lines too, since a few people around here, have had sled's catch on fire. Apparantly it weakens the rubber lines, which is news to me.
I find if you use a good iso fuel antifreeze and cleaner, such as stp, you shouldn't have issue's with eth. I have heard of this fuel eating out fuel lines too, since a few people around here, have had sled's catch on fire. Apparantly it weakens the rubber lines, which is news to me.