Oxygenated fuels..ethanol=burn downs??

Actually - adding a gas dryer is essentially increasing the alcohol level in the fuel (ethanol IS corn alcohol) so be careful with that stuff. If you do add ISO to get water out of the gas I would try to use the fuel up immediately....

The real problem with the ethanol is that its naturally corrosive, it absorbs water (it will actually wick moisture out of the atmosphere, think about how much moisture is in powdery snow conditions) and it shortens fuel storage life due to phase seperation. If stored for more than 2 weeks, an ethanol mix fuel seperates and the water/alchol mix goes to the bottom, and the gasoline floats above.

Where is your sleds fuel pickup? On the bottom of the tank (same place as the water) !!

Start it up on "old" fuel after a couple down weeks.....Boom.....sh*t....

I think we all can agree that if we jet up a size or two, try not to let the fuel sit too long, and use good long-term storage techniques we should be OK.

But it is important to get the messege out, and THATS the real purpose of this forum.

But, if we take for granted that everything will just be OK with ethanol mixes in older sleds, we may find out different....

Just my humble opinion...nuff said...I'm going nite nite.....
 
ethanol is not the only culprit with todays fuel - along with its addition there has been a reduction in other good components like toulene, benzene, ethers, and other hydrocarbons that make octane and power - dyes and preservatives have been added and the overall result is plain and simple - lower quality fuel with a diminished shelf life - the ONLY way to restore fuel quality is to add hydrocarbons - octane boosters would be a good place to start but most of them are nothing more than alcohol and lead (do an MSDS search before using any octane boost to determine its contents) the only booster I've found to be all hydrocarbon is Amsoil - combination of toulene and ether - two best hydrocarbons's out there - however, boosters are very expensive, so, as I've advocated in many post before, go to the paint store and buy a gallon of toulene and put it in empty booster bottles and carry it in the back of your sled - if you could find a place to buy diethyl ether by the gallon, that would be even better - either one will give you piece of mind at alot lower cost than the octane boosters that you can't trust what is in them!! ;)!
 
In the linked SnoWest article I like how it's all about ethanol warnings for our sled. Yet the first paragraph says "RUMFORD - Arctic Cat dealer Rick Hebert has yet to see a snowmobile with a blown engine caused by the new E10 gas"

We have been running it for years over here also. No problems. Unless your running a 1970's sled you don't have to worry about any blown engines because of ethanol. :) Just change your gas storing habit's. That's all.
 
I am confused now, alot have been saying "We have been running ethonal for years" I have not seen any indiacation on the fuel pump of added ethonal. I just double checked the local pumps and NONE have any marking of added ethonal. I thought it was mandatory to have it marked if it is added, am I right? Asking the clerk does no good, they do not even know what ethonal is. I have seen on some pumps in other states which state 10% ethonal or more. Usually this is on the midgrade fuel, please let me know if I am incorrect. Al
 
I have seen many people are using Sea Foam. I too have use this "snake oil" in a few boats. Seems to work good on cleaning some engine deposits. I looked at the MSDS sheets for Sea Foam. Ingrediants are ; Pale Oil, Naptha, and IPA. Not sure what IPA is, Naptha is use for paint thining, and Pale oil is an extremely refined base oil. Sea Foam claims to remove water from fuel, how?
 
alswagg said:
I have seen many people are using Sea Foam. I too have use this "snake oil" in a few boats. Seems to work good on cleaning some engine deposits. I looked at the MSDS sheets for Sea Foam. Ingrediants are ; Pale Oil, Naptha, and IPA. Not sure what IPA is, Naptha is use for paint thining, and Pale oil is an extremely refined base oil. Sea Foam claims to remove water from fuel, how?
Click to expand...

maybe IPA is isopropyl alchol... we all know alchl removes water... just a thought..
 
that is what I was thinking, but this would be counter productive to add more alcohol to the fuel. Like I said, I have used Sea Foam for cleaning purposes. I am not sure how it can preserve fuel also. With listed ingrediants, you can buy at local hardware store.
 
alswagg said:
that is what I was thinking, but this would be counter productive to add more alcohol to the fuel. Like I said, I have used Sea Foam for cleaning purposes. I am not sure how it can preserve fuel also. With listed ingrediants, you can buy at local hardware store.
Click to expand...

my thoughts are, there is no substitute for good old fahioned carb cleaning/ maintenance... removing the carbs and cleaning all cct's just like described in the Tech Section and mrviper700's excellent post....

these snake oils (seafoam included) are just that... they are another way of scalping and gouging from an unweary consumer... Naptha, Pale oil, and ISP (if it's iso) are all very inexpensive to purchase in bulk yet they give you a pretty 10 oz can/bottle and charge you $10-12 bucks (here in Canada)...

I wouldn't give them too much praise since maintainence is the key to reliability.... Many swear by it but I'd love to see scientific proof....

again, just my .02 cents... tj...
 
Totally agree. Who has had an engine go down, did you check the carb bowls for seperation? Once you rebuilt the engine, did it happen again. Do you alway drain the tank before restarting? I am not 100% convinced, yet. I do not like the addition of ethonal at all, in my eyes it is a major hoax. I would like to see proof of separation though, I believe it can and does happen. One thing we try to do while riding is to fill up every time before we stop for the night. This helps with keeping water,frost off of the the inside of the fuel tank. Al
 
I am going to conduct an experiment. I want to see if I can see the phase seperation in ethanol mixed fuel. I am going to take a larger mason jar and fill it 2/3 full of E10. Then punch a very tiny hole in the lid (to simulate the tank vent - all sleds have them) and put it on my workbench in a cold garage or shed for 3 weeks. I will post pics here of what I get/see......

Now, where to get mason jars....Walmart !!

I may even do it with a jar with stabil, and a jar with seafoam (I believe in the stuff for cleaning fuel systems)

Has anyone on the forum done this yet?
 
IPA is isopropyl alcohol - Naptha is in the olefin family and is simular to kerosene - be VERY careful leaving sea foam in your gas tank of E10 for any length of time - it will coagulate - believe me I've had it happen!! - increase your hydrocarbons and run a good oil with high detergent content (Amsoil, Klotz, etc.) and you will be maintenance free!!
 
I have 17 customer sleds I take care of, plus my 3. I am now concerned about fuel contamination more than ever. Now my customers are getting concerned, I would like to have a definate answer for them and myself. All of my sleds are jetted stock. Most of my service sleds are also. I just jetted the 800 ZR one size richer, which is OEM for -15F. Right now I am telling them to Run premium only, keep fuel full to help eliminate moisture in tank, try to buy from a quick turning fuel station. What else do you think????
 
Tank..

It might be a good idea to empty their tanks, have a good look inside and make sure those fuel filters are clean, then at least you have a 'base knowledge' and can work from there to help them not burn down.
A little extra oil consumption wont hurt. Not talking about an extra 1/4 of a quart, maybe an extra 2/3 ounces or less, its cheap.
 
mdbauer62 said:
I am going to conduct an experiment. I want to see if I can see the phase seperation in ethanol mixed fuel. I am going to take a larger mason jar and fill it 2/3 full of E10. Then punch a very tiny hole in the lid (to simulate the tank vent - all sleds have them) and put it on my workbench in a cold garage or shed for 3 weeks. I will post pics here of what I get/see......

Now, where to get mason jars....Walmart !!

I may even do it with a jar with stabil, and a jar with seafoam (I believe in the stuff for cleaning fuel systems)

Has anyone on the forum done this yet?
Click to expand...

Never scene it down anywhere on the internet! Go for it! I can even link your results to a boating forum I participate. Same ethanol discussion going on there.
 
local cat dealer has it on his counter, one just fuel, one with stabil, one with some stuff a local guy makes, the one the local guy makes looks the best, the stabil is better than withou anything, the straight fuel is horrible
 
staggs65 said:
local cat dealer has it on his counter, one just fuel, one with stabil, one with some stuff a local guy makes, the one the local guy makes looks the best, the stabil is better than withou anything, the straight fuel is horrible
Click to expand...

The stable for summerizing the sled of to run it with the sled during the winter. I just had to ask.
 
As I posted in another post re Ethanol !!

There are issues with ethanol, NO QUESTION

Now for those with open minds & people who have had issues & want to educate themselves, check these links:

http://www.theoutboardwizard.com/bo...precaution.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/

http://www.amlibpub.com/liberty_blo...nol-damage.html

http://www.osmb.state.or.us/OSMB/news/E10.shtml

http://www.factsaboutethanol.org/?p=299

http://www.fueltestkit.com/ethanol_problems_damage.html

I like a couple of these lines taken from a couple of articles, especially the 2nd paragraph under A relating to how the alchohol in ethanol dissapates oil, hmmmm..... is this good for a 2 stroke??:

A) “When you mix ethanol with your fuel, you’ve now put a chemical substance in there that’s going to attract moisture, which is going to promote a quicker deterioration of the fuel that you have,” said Bob Magnotti, owner of Magnotti’s Small Engine Service in Roanoke, Va.

In effect, said Doug Ryms, a mechanic at Como Mower Service in Columbus, Ohio, “the alcohol actually dissipates the oil. So on a two-cycle engine, you’re lubricating the engine, but the oil is being pushed away, so it’s actually not lubricating the engine.”

B)Noyes said engines most severely affected by E10 appear to be two-stroke, fuel-injected outboards, followed by two-stroke, carbureted outboards. Inboard-outboard engines rank third on his hit list, followed by four-stroke outboards and finally by inboards.


So, while I understand that many of these articles relate to marine motors, I do believe there is a real relevance with the 2 stroke snowmobile community.

And for those who have not had "any issues ever" with ethanol, I hope it stays that way for you folks. For the rest of us, education & awareness is your best weapon & dont ASSUME A DAMN thing with todays "green fuel" supply and that it is SAFE!!

Now in closing, I am guessing the folks who have had no issues with ethanol might be in the E85 category which sounds like it might be better. In my area, it was mandated to run the E10 & ONLY E10 in the whole state which has proven to be bad. So, again, what is the ethanol in your region?

Good luck & hope ya dont blow anything up !!

Rob
 
Good

Wow nice reads..thx, your time is appreciated. Like you Im of the mind its a larger issue than most want to admit. To each his own.
 
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