Viper S
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Nothing yet on 2010 Snocross racing team? Not even anything new on their website on this years team... Maybe they're waiting to sign A-Rod after the World Series!!!
Yamaha Sno-X Racing?
- Thread starter Viper S
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Viper S
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I don't get it, like Yamaha can't afford to race. Are they just happy contolling the 4 stroke market and OK with that?
yamaredman
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Viper S
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Checked out results from weekend...
How about that finish at CSRA this weekend, Hayden down from top. Good thing they didn't go to Duluth....Is this going to be another catch up year? See Steve Taylor did well on Doo @ Duluth.
How about that finish at CSRA this weekend, Hayden down from top. Good thing they didn't go to Duluth....Is this going to be another catch up year? See Steve Taylor did well on Doo @ Duluth.
Viper S
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Still trying to believe!!!
After reading the Yamaha press release, sounds like a better showing...However, having only one sled out there again this year does not leave any room for error! I believe Yamaha can do well in SnoX, but having limited hardware out there, does not seem like a very strong commitment. I know budgets are tight, but I think they might be able to afford it!
After reading the Yamaha press release, sounds like a better showing...However, having only one sled out there again this year does not leave any room for error! I believe Yamaha can do well in SnoX, but having limited hardware out there, does not seem like a very strong commitment. I know budgets are tight, but I think they might be able to afford it!
low slung
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Viper S
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Thanks for the feedback, guess who wrote this release...
Viper S
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After the Milwaukee Mi. guess we can write off this season. Guess we should have figured it out when Malinowski, then Taylor went away....
vip8
New member
Snowmobile racing goes in circels compare the entries from sno-cross to cross-country and you will see where racing is headed. I think people who race are sick of paying 11,000$ on a sno-cross race spicific sled that will be uncompetitive the next year unless raced in the sport classes. The production class is just plan silly, who would have ever thought a sled that needs 110 octane fuel, premix, three opptional timming curves, V-force reeds
and flat slide carbs would ever be production! "five years ago those things were illegal. Hmmmm All mighty ISR rule makers need to take there hands out of the mfg's pockets and start making rules that are good for our sport, One I would suggest is to raise the production limit from 500 units to 1500 units. That alone will bring the cost down on the sled.
As far as Yamaha goes, I applaude there efforts to try to compete with a true production based sled. I know for a fact that Yamha will never have a 500 build race specific sled, the bottom line will not allow it and that's what it comes down to.
and flat slide carbs would ever be production! "five years ago those things were illegal. Hmmmm All mighty ISR rule makers need to take there hands out of the mfg's pockets and start making rules that are good for our sport, One I would suggest is to raise the production limit from 500 units to 1500 units. That alone will bring the cost down on the sled.
As far as Yamaha goes, I applaude there efforts to try to compete with a true production based sled. I know for a fact that Yamha will never have a 500 build race specific sled, the bottom line will not allow it and that's what it comes down to.
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CORMORANT
New member
After the first USCC cross country race of the year I have to wonder what happened to all the Phazer racers. Yamaha almost owed the sport 85 class, not any more.
The expert 85 and sport 85 classes were grouped together in one race. A total of 47 sleds started the race. 2 Yamahas, 2 Doos, 1 Polaris, the rest were green. Normally I would have expected about 1/2 of the entires to be Yamaha.
The expert 85 and sport 85 classes were grouped together in one race. A total of 47 sleds started the race. 2 Yamahas, 2 Doos, 1 Polaris, the rest were green. Normally I would have expected about 1/2 of the entires to be Yamaha.
vip8
New member
What happened is the same thing that happened in the 600 stock class.
The sno-pro 500 chassis is a race specific sled and the phazer is not. This class was susposed to be for a racer who did not want to spend 10,000$ to be competitive, The 85 class is now ruined and might as well be called the Arctic Cat 85 class.
Here is a list of sleds in my opinion that would be competitive with each other.
600 class 85 class
F6 F5/ 570
600 Dragon 550 IQ
600 xp consumer version 500 fan
FX Nytro Phazer
Thease are the sleds the Mfgs. should be using.
Some of the race sleds being used in cross-country do not have enough fuel copacity to even make it 60 miles. My question to ISR and the Mfgs. is why even have a stock class. No other form of racing has thease types of rules and grey areas in thier rule book. I say make it like moto-cross rules. There is pretty much one rule, it has to be a no bigger than a 250 or 450 the end.
The sno-pro 500 chassis is a race specific sled and the phazer is not. This class was susposed to be for a racer who did not want to spend 10,000$ to be competitive, The 85 class is now ruined and might as well be called the Arctic Cat 85 class.
Here is a list of sleds in my opinion that would be competitive with each other.
600 class 85 class
F6 F5/ 570
600 Dragon 550 IQ
600 xp consumer version 500 fan
FX Nytro Phazer
Thease are the sleds the Mfgs. should be using.
Some of the race sleds being used in cross-country do not have enough fuel copacity to even make it 60 miles. My question to ISR and the Mfgs. is why even have a stock class. No other form of racing has thease types of rules and grey areas in thier rule book. I say make it like moto-cross rules. There is pretty much one rule, it has to be a no bigger than a 250 or 450 the end.
CORMORANT
New member
vip8 said:
The guys racing the Cat 500 SP did not spend anywhere near $10,000 for them. The suggest retail was $8200 if I remember correctly and if you were a racer you got them for quite a bit less than that. Remember that this sled and others like it are designed for entry level racers and older racers who don't need the speed of a 600 cc sled.
I talked to a number of former Phazer racers and asked them why they switched brands, every one of them said that it was because of a lack of the same type of support from Yamaha that is made available to others brands of racers by the other factories and the fact that the Cat 500 SP was a very capable and durable sled.
9 Yamaha sleds started the 3 day I-500 race this weekend, 1 finished all three days. It was a Phazer raced by Seth Thorson.
vip8
New member
I agree Yamaha dose'nt have the support the other mfg's. have.
The 500 snopro might not cost 10gs but it is the same chassis that dose. three years in development this sled has, just for this class can that be said for any other mfg. As a racer there is no dought what sled I would run in the 85 class, but as a guy who want's to see the sport grow it is the worst thing that could have happened. Now to be competitive all other mfgs need to sink more r&d $ into this class to be competitve and guess who will have to absorb the additional cost. $8200 this year $8600 next $9000 the next for an 85 hp sled, why! If the other mfgs don't follow suit I see this entry level class going away in three years and that would be a shame. You should'nt have to buy this sled off the race program thats the porpose of the class.
The 500 snopro might not cost 10gs but it is the same chassis that dose. three years in development this sled has, just for this class can that be said for any other mfg. As a racer there is no dought what sled I would run in the 85 class, but as a guy who want's to see the sport grow it is the worst thing that could have happened. Now to be competitive all other mfgs need to sink more r&d $ into this class to be competitve and guess who will have to absorb the additional cost. $8200 this year $8600 next $9000 the next for an 85 hp sled, why! If the other mfgs don't follow suit I see this entry level class going away in three years and that would be a shame. You should'nt have to buy this sled off the race program thats the porpose of the class.
CORMORANT
New member
vip8 said:
I don't think that this class will go away that easily, remember that entry level racers need something to race. How many years has it been since 440 class machines were built? This year the rules allow the junior racers to race 500cc liquid cooled machines that have been geared down to limit the top speed. Can you think of a better way for a manufacture to develop a core of young racers who are familiar and loyal to their brand?
Cat certainly has the most competitive sled in the 85 hp class but the fan cooled sleds from Doo and Polaris are also very competitive, there just are not many people racing them. Either one of these manufacturers could drop a 500cc liquid cooled motor into and existing chassis and be competitive. Until this year the class was dominated by the Phazer. Last year 5 of the top 10 sleds in the Sport 85 class were Yamahas, 3 Cats, 1 Polaris and 1 Doo. The class season point’s championship was won by Ryan Greening on a Phazer.
Yamaha could certainly again dominate this class with a little work on the chassis and some support for the people racing their sleds. How much money would Yamaha spend if they were like Cat and sold an upper A-arm to a racer for $61 instead of $????.
Remember that for most people racing is just a money pit and they will want to race the most competetive sled that will cost the least amount of money to operate. Right now that sled is the Cat 500 SP in the 85 hp class. Next year it could be any of the other three makes.
vip8
New member
I agree, other manufactures could put a liquid 500 in the sled to be competitive if they want to be. the bad thing is that it would have to be put in an IQ or XP race chassis to be competitive and the chassis is what is going to raise the price of the sled. Right know the limmiting factor for thease guys is the chassis not the engine. You are totally right that cat just upped the bar a little, But I feel that this is not the class to be upping the bar in. The reason I feel this class will be short lived is this, If polaris, ski-doo and yammaha dont build somthing to compeate then why would cat countinue to support all those sleds just to race them selves. There were like 173 entries in the I 500 and almost one third of them were 500 cats, did you see the line for pre tech? It looked like the back side of the assembly line at cat, one after another I have been in this sport for 15 years and have never seen the entries so lopsided in one class, oh ya never mind they put Trevor John on one to even up the odds a little.
CORMORANT
New member
There may have been 173 entries but there were only about 125 actual sleds racing. Some racers entered more than 1 class. The most notable thing that you can say about the entries is that Yamaha and SkiDoo racers were missing. Prior to the introduction of the 2008 Cat SnoPro the most common color that you saw was yellow. In the 85 hp class the color was Blue. Several things happened since 2008; the new Cat SP chassis was a huge success, the new Doo XP chassis did not seem as good as the old Rev chassis, and Cat added a 500 cc SnoPro sled to compete in the 85 hp class. The amazing thing was the huge increase in Cat 500 SP racers and the huge decrease in Phazer racers. Yes it did appear like the back lot at the Cat factory with all the 500 SP sleds in the race.vip8 said:
vip8
New member
I under stand that from year to year the prominate colors will change because of product development,Thats what the pro class is for. I just dont think an entry level class can handle it. I my mind a racer should be able to be competitive in this class with a the same sled more than one season before having to upgrade to the next best thing. The guys that I have spoken with who switched from Yamaha to cat in the 85 class tell me it is because of the chassis more than the support, some of them are not even being supported by cat and are paying full boat because the Phazer chassis just isnt competitive, Ryan Greening won the points last year on a phazer and was 100% supported by Yamaha and was offerd the same deal this year and look what he's on this year. I may sound like a broken record but this class will not survive this type of rider/manufacture compition, the guys that are finishing 15th-6th will go some place else to race. there shouldnt be one of thease 85hp class sleds in a factory race trailer it's not fair to the poor kid who shows up with his dads pickup and trys to compeate aginst them. This class should be more about the fun factor then what it is turning into.
CORMORANT
New member
vip8 said:
That may be true in the Expert 85 class but you have to remember that the Cat 500 SP can be raced in at least 5 classes; Expert 85, Expert 85 improved, Sport 85, Junior 14-17 and Junior 10-13. The sled could also be competetive in the Trail 600 class. Most of those classes are not money classes but trophy classes where a new rider can learn about racing while spending the least amount of money. Think about it from the point of view of a father who has a son who wants to race. Next year you can pick up a used 500 SP, gear it down to limit the top speed and have your son or daughter start racing in the Junior 10-13 class. After a few years they could move up to the Junior 14-17 class on the same sled. My youngest son just started racing in the Junior 14-17 class. He did not race the I-500 so his sled will not have that many miles on it at the end of the season. I am not sure what If I will keep the sled another year or replace it with a 2011 if he keeps on racing. My oldest son did race the I-500 on a 600 SP, his sled will be replaced at the end of the season as most racers have been doing.
vip8
New member
The bad thing about the expert 85 class is that they do pay out, as long as they pay out in that class there will always be some factory ringer on a sled because 99% of the time it's going to be a sure thing for them to market a win' regardless of the manufacturer. So what are all thease guys that are racing in non money classes going to do when they want to move up. The ones with actual talent will be picked up by a pro team or the manufacturer and they will become the ringer and all others might as well stay home and save for collage. The expert 85 class in the 500 is the prime example with Trevor John, I'm sure there were racers who jumped from thier normal class to race expert who thought they might have a chance to be in the money and werent. I talked to Trevor after the first day and he said he passed "42" other guys, ON THE FIRST DAY. If I would have been on a sno-pro in that race I would have went straight to Mike Calletty and asked him why they needed to bring a guy of that caliber to race in that class. Totally rediculous. There has always been a place for young people to race like the joinuors and sport classes. The point i'm trying to make is lets not over engineer a sled that dose'nt need to be, that is what the pro class is for. About 18 years ago MRP. had a class where they supplied the sled, I think it was a jag or somthing. you showed up and they picked your name from a hat and asinged you a sled, I thought that was pretty cool. I know it wouldnt work for the guys who wanted to race the whole series but it was pertty cool.