Well, did some checking on the motor today. Pulled the shroud, pull start basket, and inner cover plate off, and sure enough, this motor is definitely not a points motor. It has two cdi pick ups, one in between each of the stator coils. So, that brings me to my next question. Does anyone know where to get a CDI box for a '77 Exciter 440 (actually SS433)? Is anyone running the Fireplug CDI that I've seen on the web? Are they good reliable units? I believe I can get one of those for around $160, and it would be new, which would probably be better than trying to find a 30 year old original Yamaha CDI, but are they a good substitute and do they work?
Now the only other problem is trying to figure out why they are running two individual coils instead of the original unicoil that the '77 should have. I was looking at the connectors tonight and one of the coils has a round barrel connector like original and the other has had a flat blade type aftermarket connector attached to it, which I know is probably not going to connect to any kind of factory connections on a CDI, so I may have to re-wire this with a barrel style connector when I get a CDI box. I was just wondering if running these individual coils might hurt whatever CDI box I put on it? Might even be the reason why this motor doesn't have a CDI box. If anyone knows whether or not running the two individual coils instead of a stock unicoil could damage the CDI box, please let me know. I've found a lot of unicoils for these motors out there, but I don't really want to have to buy something if I don't need to.
And one more thing, which may be kind of dumb, but would I know which coil was cylinder one and which one was cylinder two to get the timing right? Or would I run into problems trying to time this motor by running two individual coils instead of a unicoil with the CDI? As I say, I don't know much about the sled motors, but I'm trying to learn all I can about them for this project.
I think that's about all I've figured out so far. Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions, tips, or help anyone might be able to provide.
Now the only other problem is trying to figure out why they are running two individual coils instead of the original unicoil that the '77 should have. I was looking at the connectors tonight and one of the coils has a round barrel connector like original and the other has had a flat blade type aftermarket connector attached to it, which I know is probably not going to connect to any kind of factory connections on a CDI, so I may have to re-wire this with a barrel style connector when I get a CDI box. I was just wondering if running these individual coils might hurt whatever CDI box I put on it? Might even be the reason why this motor doesn't have a CDI box. If anyone knows whether or not running the two individual coils instead of a stock unicoil could damage the CDI box, please let me know. I've found a lot of unicoils for these motors out there, but I don't really want to have to buy something if I don't need to.
And one more thing, which may be kind of dumb, but would I know which coil was cylinder one and which one was cylinder two to get the timing right? Or would I run into problems trying to time this motor by running two individual coils instead of a unicoil with the CDI? As I say, I don't know much about the sled motors, but I'm trying to learn all I can about them for this project.
I think that's about all I've figured out so far. Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions, tips, or help anyone might be able to provide.
Coil(s) give spark to both cylinders at the same time so no problem to mix caps. Check ebay and scrap yards for cdi. that new one is pricy.
How much difference is there in the cdi's between different years? I haven't been able to find a cdi specifically for a '77 exciter 440, but I have found some that are for '78 phazer 440's and several other ss440's for other years from there up. Does anyone know if any of these will work on my motor? If not, is there any other years that will actually work, or be made to work, or does it have to be that specific cdi box for a '77 exciter 440? Thanks as always!
opsled
Active member
Somehow I missed this thread. I have all the Exciter service manuals for all the years.
Here is the deal.
Your # (SS433-003230) denotes a 1976 Exciter 440 engine. 77's started with SS433-004101.
All 440 Exciter engines were reed valve engines. All 340 engines were piston port. The 340/440 ignition systems were the same during a production year but systems changed in different years.
Problem-- Serial #'s are stamped into the fan housing so if it was changed the #'s could mean nothing.
Dual coils were only used on the 76 and it's system is different than 77 and up Exciters. The dual coil system will have two wires for the coils. Orange and grey. Single coil systems only have the orange wire. GPX's and Some SRX's used the dual coil system but I'm not sure if the parts are compatable. Those engines rev much higher than an Exciter.
I don't have the 76 CDI # but it bolted down with 4 bolts at the corners.
77-78 Exciters used the same single coil system. CDI # Hitachi TIA01-17. It had a rubber pouch that held it to the frame and bolted with two bolts.
79 used the same stator as 77-78 but changed to a Hitachi TIA01-27 CDI.
80-81 stators and CDI's were changed from 79. CDI # was Hitachi TIA01-30.
A good 76 CDI is hard to find and were the most troublesome. 77-78 are easier and less prone to failure. 79 and up easier still and also very dependable.
Any year system will fit in any year engine but you would want all the compatable components to insure everything is right. Stator, CDI, Coil, Flywheel.
If I were you I would look for a complete single coil system from a newer Exciter if you have to buy parts unless you can find a 76 CDI that works for a reasonable price.
I have a complete 77 Exciter system with a partial wiring harness I would sell for $150.
I have added a pic of the 77 CDI. The 76 would have one extra wire and it would be grey.
Good Luck, opsled
Here is the deal.
Your # (SS433-003230) denotes a 1976 Exciter 440 engine. 77's started with SS433-004101.
All 440 Exciter engines were reed valve engines. All 340 engines were piston port. The 340/440 ignition systems were the same during a production year but systems changed in different years.
Problem-- Serial #'s are stamped into the fan housing so if it was changed the #'s could mean nothing.
Dual coils were only used on the 76 and it's system is different than 77 and up Exciters. The dual coil system will have two wires for the coils. Orange and grey. Single coil systems only have the orange wire. GPX's and Some SRX's used the dual coil system but I'm not sure if the parts are compatable. Those engines rev much higher than an Exciter.
I don't have the 76 CDI # but it bolted down with 4 bolts at the corners.
77-78 Exciters used the same single coil system. CDI # Hitachi TIA01-17. It had a rubber pouch that held it to the frame and bolted with two bolts.
79 used the same stator as 77-78 but changed to a Hitachi TIA01-27 CDI.
80-81 stators and CDI's were changed from 79. CDI # was Hitachi TIA01-30.
A good 76 CDI is hard to find and were the most troublesome. 77-78 are easier and less prone to failure. 79 and up easier still and also very dependable.
Any year system will fit in any year engine but you would want all the compatable components to insure everything is right. Stator, CDI, Coil, Flywheel.
If I were you I would look for a complete single coil system from a newer Exciter if you have to buy parts unless you can find a 76 CDI that works for a reasonable price.
I have a complete 77 Exciter system with a partial wiring harness I would sell for $150.
I have added a pic of the 77 CDI. The 76 would have one extra wire and it would be grey.
Good Luck, opsled
Attachments
Ok...so then my motor is actually a '76 Exciter instead of a '77? That would explain the dual coils that it has on it, but what about the single Keihen carb? I thought '76 440's had dual carbs and dual exhaust pipes? Mine has both single carb and single 2 into 1 exhaust. I assume that would have been easy to change over to though, but I was just wanting to make sure my understanding was correct on that.
So, my question is this. Does anyone know if the '76 stator and dual coils will work with a newer '77 and up style CDI? I realize that it would be better to have the complete setup from a running engine, and I would love to buy the setup that you have opsled, but I just don't know if the budget will allow that kind of purchase right now. As I said in my last post, I've found several '78 and newer CDI's for fairly cheap prices, but I need to know if they will work or not. Or does the two wire set up on the '76 prevent me from using anything newer without changing the stator and harness? What about changing to both the single coil and newer CDI but running the stock '76 stator? The stator seems to be the expensive part to buy from what I've found. The coils and newer CDI's are not too terribly expensive though and if they would work, it would definitely help stay within the limited budget that I have for this project.
And if the '76 motor has 8 wires coming out of the motor, then that would match mine as well. Does this sound correct? It sounds like that would be the extra wire you mentioned on the CDI maybe since it seems that the other motors only have 7 wires coming out from what I've been seeing. But please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Thanks for all the great information! It is much appreciated!
So, my question is this. Does anyone know if the '76 stator and dual coils will work with a newer '77 and up style CDI? I realize that it would be better to have the complete setup from a running engine, and I would love to buy the setup that you have opsled, but I just don't know if the budget will allow that kind of purchase right now. As I said in my last post, I've found several '78 and newer CDI's for fairly cheap prices, but I need to know if they will work or not. Or does the two wire set up on the '76 prevent me from using anything newer without changing the stator and harness? What about changing to both the single coil and newer CDI but running the stock '76 stator? The stator seems to be the expensive part to buy from what I've found. The coils and newer CDI's are not too terribly expensive though and if they would work, it would definitely help stay within the limited budget that I have for this project.
And if the '76 motor has 8 wires coming out of the motor, then that would match mine as well. Does this sound correct? It sounds like that would be the extra wire you mentioned on the CDI maybe since it seems that the other motors only have 7 wires coming out from what I've been seeing. But please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Thanks for all the great information! It is much appreciated!
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opsled
Active member
No Exciters had dual carbs or exhaust. The single Keihen slide carb is correct for all 76-77 Exciters. 78 and up used a butterfly carb. The Y to single exhaust is also correct for all years Exciter 340 and 440. Yes the 76 had 8 wires out of the stator.
Compatability between different systems will probably be a problem. CDi's are easily damaged if hooked up wrong or not fed properly. The book is calling for different #'s and the 76 is stand alone as compared with other year Exciters. Some late GP and PR 433/338 sleds may be the same as the 76 Exciter if they had CDI ignition.
Good Luck, opsled
Compatability between different systems will probably be a problem. CDi's are easily damaged if hooked up wrong or not fed properly. The book is calling for different #'s and the 76 is stand alone as compared with other year Exciters. Some late GP and PR 433/338 sleds may be the same as the 76 Exciter if they had CDI ignition.
Good Luck, opsled
From what all you've said, then it definitely sounds like I've got myself a '76 Exciter 440 motor instead of a '77. Were these fairly reliable motors, well, besides the cdi problems you mentioned? Do these motors have a single or double ring piston? I have seen where some of the 440's had a single ring piston that was supposed to be a sportier model and revved higher or something. Just wondering how this motor stacked up to other sled motors. Being that I am putting it in an odyssey, it doesn't need to be the fastest motor ever made. I'm more concerned with it being reliable than fast anyway. I was just curious how well they run.
Thanks again!!
Thanks again!!
All the exciter engines are the same the engine numbers start with ss.the cdi is the same for all.
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Sorry forgot to put they are all the same 1977 up to 1981y201srx said:
So, if my motor is a '76, then I would need to either get a '76 CDI or change everything over to a '77-'81 setup then? In other words, my motor will not work with anything other than a '76 CDI without changing the stator, coils, and possibly the flywheel?
opsled
Active member
y201srx said:
??????????????
Dude,, You were two years old when the 76 Exciter came out. I bought and rode them new. In the past ten years I have bought, built, sold probably 30 different Exciters of every year.
How come your info doesn't match the service manuals or the sleds I have seen????
opsled
If you go back and read I corrected what I wrote .as far as exciter I been riding them all my life and have owned them all but 1981 .I was with my dad when he bought his new in 1978 .the reason I wrote what I said was I was told the engine I bought was a 1976 that's why I said it was a piston port .the micro fitch says that engine came with reeds the engine I got didn't and the numbers are ss .so what is the engine I got is it a 1975 they did build them they were exts.and ad far as I know those engines were the only 1s with the ss#.opsled said:
