sagerider
New member
Piston Ring Problems
Is this right? The dealership gave me 8DG-11603-00 piston rings (this is for a 01 MM 600). Now, this is my first time comparing old and new rings, but WOW. The new rings appear to be way smaller than the old ones.
When I pulled the jugs, the old rings were like sticking out from the sides of the piston and you could squish them in and out. I put the first new ring on (pretty fricking difficult) and it is barely visible out of the groove... and the end to end gap is awful big (compared to the others). Gap is supposed to be 0.014 - 0.022 inches. Ha Ha... they have to be wrong. I can't even squeeze them any closer, they are tight. I wouldn't have to push these in at all to put the jug back in. They sure don't look right to me.
I'm not putting anymore on until I get a for sure about this... trying to look up the parts number, but havn't found it yet.
I'm attaching two pictures. Top picture is new piston ring, inside an old removed one. Bottom picture is the new ring installed. Notice the giant gap.
Is this right? The dealership gave me 8DG-11603-00 piston rings (this is for a 01 MM 600). Now, this is my first time comparing old and new rings, but WOW. The new rings appear to be way smaller than the old ones.
When I pulled the jugs, the old rings were like sticking out from the sides of the piston and you could squish them in and out. I put the first new ring on (pretty fricking difficult) and it is barely visible out of the groove... and the end to end gap is awful big (compared to the others). Gap is supposed to be 0.014 - 0.022 inches. Ha Ha... they have to be wrong. I can't even squeeze them any closer, they are tight. I wouldn't have to push these in at all to put the jug back in. They sure don't look right to me.
I'm not putting anymore on until I get a for sure about this... trying to look up the parts number, but havn't found it yet.
I'm attaching two pictures. Top picture is new piston ring, inside an old removed one. Bottom picture is the new ring installed. Notice the giant gap.
Attachments
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sagerider
New member
Different Pistons same year
Hmmm There seems to be 8DG and 8CH pistons for 600's in 01. Seems I got the 8DG and need the 8CH. Does this sound right? Hmmm another week.
Hmmm There seems to be 8DG and 8CH pistons for 600's in 01. Seems I got the 8DG and need the 8CH. Does this sound right? Hmmm another week.
sagerider
New member
WOW, not a 600
Wow... Just happened to be fiddling with the jugs, waiting for monday to order new parts and noticed that they are stamped 698cm3.... I guess it is not a 600 after all. Title says 600, hood says 600, owner said 600 but it's not a 600...
So a new question... I probably should try to look it up first, is what crank should it have in it, if indeed it was a 600 and is now a 700. How could this swap cause me problems if they didn't do it all, or do it right? What should I look for/check.
Wow... Just happened to be fiddling with the jugs, waiting for monday to order new parts and noticed that they are stamped 698cm3.... I guess it is not a 600 after all. Title says 600, hood says 600, owner said 600 but it's not a 600...
So a new question... I probably should try to look it up first, is what crank should it have in it, if indeed it was a 600 and is now a 700. How could this swap cause me problems if they didn't do it all, or do it right? What should I look for/check.
daman
New member
So you had a sleeper huh? lol nothing wrong with that ,the 6 and 700 vm cranks were the same,just the jugs,pistons and head were different,top end.
sagerider
New member
Good
6 and 700 vm(max)? How about mountain max... they appear to be the same.
Cool... thanks. Yeah, I was checking out all the specs I could on the crank and stroke and looked to be the same. However, I'm not sure if its clutched and jetted right, I'll have to look into that too. The labeling on the redhead was spooged off, so it didn't say. I never even thought to look. Well, if I can get it back together the boy will sure be happy about that.
daman said:
6 and 700 vm(max)? How about mountain max... they appear to be the same.
Cool... thanks. Yeah, I was checking out all the specs I could on the crank and stroke and looked to be the same. However, I'm not sure if its clutched and jetted right, I'll have to look into that too. The labeling on the redhead was spooged off, so it didn't say. I never even thought to look. Well, if I can get it back together the boy will sure be happy about that.
sagerider
New member
Gaskets
I'd already bought, opened and started using a 600 gasket kit. Are the head gaskets the only ones that won't work... since its a 700?
I'd already bought, opened and started using a 600 gasket kit. Are the head gaskets the only ones that won't work... since its a 700?
sagerider
New member
Finally finished
My first solo engine overhaul is done!
Replaced PTO and Center jug, and they just arrived yesterday. I did end up getting help on the stuck air mixture screw in one of the carbs. Dude soaked it in a catalyst for over a week, cut down the housing some, and finally got 'er out. It had been cross threaded, badly.
Well, as stated before, the 600 was morphed into a 700. So had to return/ get new rings, return/ get new gaskets and luckily hadn't ordered the jugs until after the discovery.
Couple hiccups, and "f" ups along the way: Was getting ready to torque the jugs down and had a bad feeling I missed something. Went back, re-read and Oh crap... forgot to check rings for up. 50/50 chance my butt, tore it back down, every single ring was upside down.
Got the rest of it all backtogether, drained the gas, put in new and woo hoo buckeroo. Went for a short warm up/breakin ride, all seemed good. Gained a thousand feet in elevation, stopped to check everything out and was dumping gas all over the place. Limped back to the trailer, got home and tore it apart again. I had loosened the float drain screws back around christmas and forgot all about it. Two had rattled out (real fun finding them in the tub) and had already lost over 5 gallons of gas!! Fuel pump works great.
Well... I think its all good now. Letting the kid take it out tomorrow and have at it.
OH BTW, not doing the granny style break in. So far (after about 10 miles) compression is 128-135 in all three.
My first solo engine overhaul is done!
Replaced PTO and Center jug, and they just arrived yesterday. I did end up getting help on the stuck air mixture screw in one of the carbs. Dude soaked it in a catalyst for over a week, cut down the housing some, and finally got 'er out. It had been cross threaded, badly.
Well, as stated before, the 600 was morphed into a 700. So had to return/ get new rings, return/ get new gaskets and luckily hadn't ordered the jugs until after the discovery.
Couple hiccups, and "f" ups along the way: Was getting ready to torque the jugs down and had a bad feeling I missed something. Went back, re-read and Oh crap... forgot to check rings for up. 50/50 chance my butt, tore it back down, every single ring was upside down.
Got the rest of it all backtogether, drained the gas, put in new and woo hoo buckeroo. Went for a short warm up/breakin ride, all seemed good. Gained a thousand feet in elevation, stopped to check everything out and was dumping gas all over the place. Limped back to the trailer, got home and tore it apart again. I had loosened the float drain screws back around christmas and forgot all about it. Two had rattled out (real fun finding them in the tub) and had already lost over 5 gallons of gas!! Fuel pump works great.
Well... I think its all good now. Letting the kid take it out tomorrow and have at it.
OH BTW, not doing the granny style break in. So far (after about 10 miles) compression is 128-135 in all three.
daman
New member
Great to hear,makes one feel good about there accomplishments huh? thats why it's important not to rush a big job like this,the smallest problem can cause big issues,glad it worked out for you thanks for posting back.
what oil you running?
what oil you running?
sagerider
New member
Thanks for help
Yes... thanks for everyone's help. Much, much appreciated.
With 3 boys (2 old enough to ride) and a riding wife (4 sleds) I really need to get more educated about repairs and maintanence. That's part of the reason I got all Yamaha's, (3 MM and 1 enticer)... hopefully learn on one and be able to service all the rest. This really helped, 1 overhaul but basically doing it all 2 or 3 times.. LOL
Here we go, for the maiden voyage!
Thanks again.
Yes... thanks for everyone's help. Much, much appreciated.
With 3 boys (2 old enough to ride) and a riding wife (4 sleds) I really need to get more educated about repairs and maintanence. That's part of the reason I got all Yamaha's, (3 MM and 1 enticer)... hopefully learn on one and be able to service all the rest. This really helped, 1 overhaul but basically doing it all 2 or 3 times.. LOL
Here we go, for the maiden voyage!
Thanks again.
daman
New member
Sounds like you need some service manuals,wink, haha,anyway keep us posted.
sagerider
New member
I've got the Yamaha service manual on CD and the Clymer in paperback. It's more about retention (that's what the teachers always said). It just doesn't stick until its stuck... kinda like my riding technique.
The sled ran good today. Only the speedo and fuel guage died. I rolled it over, and yup... looks like the bearing is going bye bye. Fuel guage freaked me out, considering the incident yesterday, but no leaks... just a sudden dead guage?
Also.. .I stole some simmons on ebay, but am still waiting for the correct mounts. The skis on it are those nasty plastic skinned/ steel skis. The steering is AWFUL... like huge amounts of ski pressure. I noticed this yesterday, and messed with the suspension some before the ride. I thought it might wear out the 11 year old, and sure enough it did, I ended up bringing it down the mountain. I'm hopeing its just those awful skis and all will be well when I get them on there, cause I'm running out of suspension adjustments.
The sled ran good today. Only the speedo and fuel guage died. I rolled it over, and yup... looks like the bearing is going bye bye. Fuel guage freaked me out, considering the incident yesterday, but no leaks... just a sudden dead guage?
Also.. .I stole some simmons on ebay, but am still waiting for the correct mounts. The skis on it are those nasty plastic skinned/ steel skis. The steering is AWFUL... like huge amounts of ski pressure. I noticed this yesterday, and messed with the suspension some before the ride. I thought it might wear out the 11 year old, and sure enough it did, I ended up bringing it down the mountain. I'm hopeing its just those awful skis and all will be well when I get them on there, cause I'm running out of suspension adjustments.
dont know what adjustments youve made already, ,but heres a few things to look at. limiter straps: the further out, the less ski pressure. ski shocks: turn to adjuster to a softer setting. perhaps someone changed the springs? skid shocks: front-stiffer setting, rear-softer. have you checked alignment on the front end? negative camber on the spindles will make it hard to steer. also toe. should be toed out slightly. carbides: too agrressive of carbide makes for a hard steer. also, the rubber block under the spindle to the ski saddle mount can become depressed or destroyed creating excess pressure on the ski. check all the heim joints in the steering linkage for any binding and lubricate them while your at it. the simmons will help with flotation and tracking, but if there is an underlying condition, because of the dual runner design, will actually make it worse. they wont be a bolt-on cure. i prefer the hard-surfaced wear bars on the simmons for mountain riding as i find they have too much bite with the carbide bars they come with. something i experienced recently, i installed a set of simmons on a sled that had no steering issues, and after bolting them on, it took alot of effort to turn the skis on the shop floor. had to do some serious adjustments to make them turn easily. not trying to burst your bubble, but there must be a reason for the hard steer now.
sagerider
New member
Steering
snowdad4: Thanks, just what I was looking for. Not bursting any bubbles here. I was even going to throw on a pair of new MM stock skis just to see what dif. it makes (if any) while waiting for the simmons mounts. They always seemed really smooth, so much so they lacked turning ability.
On the shop floor, it feels fine, no excessive effort. But get it on the snow and the steering is sticky and even (hard to explain) but "notchy" or "robotic" (bad terms, I know). But it jerks with effort from noon to 2 o'clock, 2 to 4 o'clock etc... Does not matter whether on a beaten trail, or off in the fresh. Fresh is less of an effect, but still way more effort to steer than the other MMs. To me with not a whole lot of tech experience, it does feel like very aggressive carbides, but that's really a guess.
Suspension: Yup, that's what I did. Let out limiters, soffened the front, tightened front of rear and softened rear of rear. All suspension "appears" stock. But the front adjusters acted strange (like a bunch of crude in there, almost seized and crunchy when adjusting.)
I will check ski tow/alignment and steering linkage next.
I appreciate the info and suggestions.
snowdad4: Thanks, just what I was looking for. Not bursting any bubbles here. I was even going to throw on a pair of new MM stock skis just to see what dif. it makes (if any) while waiting for the simmons mounts. They always seemed really smooth, so much so they lacked turning ability.
On the shop floor, it feels fine, no excessive effort. But get it on the snow and the steering is sticky and even (hard to explain) but "notchy" or "robotic" (bad terms, I know). But it jerks with effort from noon to 2 o'clock, 2 to 4 o'clock etc... Does not matter whether on a beaten trail, or off in the fresh. Fresh is less of an effect, but still way more effort to steer than the other MMs. To me with not a whole lot of tech experience, it does feel like very aggressive carbides, but that's really a guess.
Suspension: Yup, that's what I did. Let out limiters, soffened the front, tightened front of rear and softened rear of rear. All suspension "appears" stock. But the front adjusters acted strange (like a bunch of crude in there, almost seized and crunchy when adjusting.)
I will check ski tow/alignment and steering linkage next.
I appreciate the info and suggestions.
if you have a set of plastic stockers, throw them on. night and day difference over the steel. then take a look at the existing carbides for straightness. if its binding in certain spots, it sounds linkage related. hopefully rod ends at the spindle, not the ones under the motor. there are wear bushings on the steering stem, as well as heim joints on the stem to the steering pivot. it seems like the ones to crap out are always the ones you cant service unless the engine is out. a good penetrating oil or some spray grease keepd the rotation smooth in these joints.
sagerider
New member
Yes, I have two sets of plastic stockers floating around. I'll put them on, check alignment etc... lube what I can get to and try it out again. With my luck, I'm sure its the linkage under the motor 
that's just the way I roll. LoL.
But, gotta go work for real for a while... back on it later this week.
that's just the way I roll. LoL. But, gotta go work for real for a while... back on it later this week.
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LoneViper
New member
Is the rear suspension in the bottom or top hole. Bottom hole throughs a little more weight on to the skis, it made mine pretty hard to steer.
sagerider
New member
Skid is still in stock position (top holes).
Had to work today, havn't got it back in the shop yet. And, hey, I gotta go on a boys ride tomorrow.
Had to work today, havn't got it back in the shop yet. And, hey, I gotta go on a boys ride tomorrow.