OK Yamaha, I give up!

W

Waters88

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Joined
Dec 10, 2009
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251
Age
36
Location
Strathroy, Ontario
I really like Yamaha. I LOVE Yamaha, I have had 3 Yamaha sleds, a Yamaha dirtbike, and have a Yammy ATV and I am only 21. Here is my issue.

First off is cost. They are expensive. Is the quality worth the extra price, that very well may be the case, but they are just getting insane!

Second. Engine sizes in there snowmobile. 500CC or.... 1000CC PLUS. You think a guy my age can get insurance for a 1000CC sled?? Ya...right! My insurance agent laughed in my face, and said for me to wait about 6 more years minimum before I could get insurance. Called a number of other companies, found 1 of approximatley 15 that I called that would ensure me. For the fun of it, I got a quote on an '08 Apex. Well for $1900 for my first season, I can have it insured!

So there is my second compaint. Lets bring out some realistic engine sizes(600-800cc). It seems other companies are trying to bring new people into the sport, Yamaha, not so much!

My final realization, not as much of a compaint, is about how friggen lazy snowmobilers are getting. Power Steering, are you serious?? I know it may "turn on a dime" but where is the fun it sitting back, and cruising around with NO effort? Sure, on a 2-up machine, it may be an idea that would fly, but on any trail/mountain/sport machine.... is it necessary? I think not. Is it cool to say you have it, and does it drive the price up. For the first part maybe, and the second part definately.


OK, OK, done ranting for the night.
 
How old are you? Unless you are under 25 years old I can't see insurance costing that much.

Many insurance companies won't insure sleds without having at least an automobile policy, if not a HOUSE on the same policy.

We all know why insurance premiums are high for just a sled. Stupid people do stupid things and kill themselves on sleds driving prices on insurance up. Add drinking to sledding and that just compounds the issue.

It sounds like yamaha has to win people over on the whole power steering thing like they had to with their all 4 stroke line up a few years back.


Ride one and then make your decision. It almost sounds like you have not either ridden a newer 4 stroke yamaha, or at least not ridden one long enough to make a real assessment. The 4 strokes are very nice, and the EPS will only make them nicer.

Sleds all across the board from all makes have gone up in price. Heck, the Rush is a 600cc 2 stroke and it retails for 10,000 dollars.
 
I hear ya man, Im 22, got 2 sleds and a wheeler... basic liability on the sleds and nothing on the wheeler just because it would cost me so much...

as far as your laziness rant, I can see where ya are coming from, but dont knock it till ya try it, Yamaha is trying to reach out to more people for higher sales... watch the Johnny Skeptical video's, what do you think the true diehards back in the 70's would say about our 140hp liquid cooled sleds with oil injection, hand warmers, electric start, and reverse? lol...

and as far as smaller sleds, yea, there is definitely room there... they have the Phazer, fun, but going from a Viper/SRX to a Phazer is like hopping back onto a SnoScoot... I'm going to get a Nytro next, but I dont see it happening for another year or two...

Horkn- he mentioned in his post, he's 21...
 
Oh, dont worry, I know arctic cat is always on the downhill. I hate AC's. I have driven them, didnt impress me at all.

I think the steering issue, I think it would be nice. Im not debating that.... my only problem with that was is it really necessary? Are people having that much of an issue with steering a machine, that they need help? If that is the case, maybe im not driving my machine correctly?

I guess it is technology..... in 20 years if we even have snow anymore, sleds will probably drive themselves, and be inclosed. Who knows what they will have or look like?
 
Buy a used sled, 06-07 Apex Mtns can be picked up for around $6000 with reasonably low miles. I ride Yamaha for one main reason, quality, you can't beat it with a Yamaha. It's as simple as that.

I'm 20 years old, have my car with the same company (car insured in my name since 18 ) as my 07 Apex Mtn.(insured in Dec.). The Apex is considered 998cc. If I remember correctly the insurance is only $57.00/yr for liability. I have it as a $5500 purchase.
 
Those four strokes are a bear to handle in the tight twisties,, EPS is the best thing to happen for that sled... You be able to drive sled harder with much less effort,,, Will make it much more fun to drive......
 
im 40 something and i agree about the power steering, no need, i think of steering as excersize ya have to use your hole body and keeps you in shape! LOL for me thats half the fun,cranking the bars and hanging off the side of the sled! i think steering with my finger tips and just sitting there would be boring! probably just me!LOL
 
No insurance required in Michigan,,,,, but iv never ran without it..... If you have an accident or cause somebody harm, you'll be paying one way or another.....
 
I guess if you look at it that Yamaha can use the EPS to get the sled to bite more in the front, that will solve the minor handling issues that many complain of from going to a 4 stroke's weight from a 2 stroke.

So that EPS should allow the sled to handle better, while masking the extra little weight of the 4 stroke.

We know the apex is overbuilt frame wise anyways, this will help counteract that.

It won't help you get it unstuck off trail, but the majority of riders are on trails. If Yamaha loses a lot of weight from the apex then they can afford to put more gadgets on it to make it act lighter.

I see you are 21, I missed that in your first post. I do want to know if you have tested the 4 stroke yamahas out, as they really don't handle like one would perceive them to. Perception alters reality they say, so that is why Yamaha has an awesome demo fleet that they let practically anyone ride.

Had Yamaha not had this awesome demo fleet for so many years, I don't think as many people would embrace the 4 strokes.
 
Yes, I have driven a Nytro, a Warrior and an Apex. (luckily I know people who dont mind to lend out there machines for a test ride ;)! )

All are very nice sleds. I personally liked the Nytro the best, BUT I didnt like the feeling of nothing out in front. Thats what bothered me with that machine.

One thing you guys have to remember, is that I live in Canada, used sled prices are WAY higher here than in the U.S, so buying a cheap 4-stroke is tough to say the least.
 
Waters88 said:
I really like Yamaha. I LOVE Yamaha, I have had 3 Yamaha sleds, a Yamaha dirtbike, and have a Yammy ATV and I am only 21. Here is my issue.

First off is cost. They are expensive. Is the quality worth the extra price, that very well may be the case, but they are just getting insane!

Second. Engine sizes in there snowmobile. 500CC or.... 1000CC PLUS. You think a guy my age can get insurance for a 1000CC sled?? Ya...right! My insurance agent laughed in my face, and said for me to wait about 6 more years minimum before I could get insurance. Called a number of other companies, found 1 of approximatley 15 that I called that would ensure me. For the fun of it, I got a quote on an '08 Apex. Well for $1900 for my first season, I can have it insured!

So there is my second compaint. Lets bring out some realistic engine sizes(600-800cc). It seems other companies are trying to bring new people into the sport, Yamaha, not so much!

OK, OK, done ranting for the night.
Click to expand...
Well back in '98 when I got my SRX my insurance company initially insured the sled, then I called for final pricing so that I would know my premium and they made a statement that shocked me...... We AREN'T supposed to insure that machine as it is considered a high performance snowmobile..... My reply back was, If I make a claim on it you can cancel me after the claim if you wish. Did not hear another word about it.
 
Waters88 said:
Yes, I have driven a Nytro, a Warrior and an Apex. (luckily I know people who dont mind to lend out there machines for a test ride ;)! )

All are very nice sleds. I personally liked the Nytro the best, BUT I didnt like the feeling of nothing out in front. Thats what bothered me with that machine.

One thing you guys have to remember, is that I live in Canada, used sled prices are WAY higher here than in the U.S, so buying a cheap 4-stroke is tough to say the least.
Click to expand...


I think most of that issue is related to the ski design on the yamahas. If they make them more aggressive, then the extra weight will be felt by more people. See, if they add power steering, then they can run more aggressive skis and suspension setting, and not have complaints that the thing feels heavy;)

I have ridden every variant of the nytro at yamaha demo rides, except mtn versions, and some had aftermarket wear bars on them. The ones with dually's felt much better in the front end for handling than the stock runnered nytros, and I suspect that if one of these had shaper bars, or the dually version of shaper bars, that it would even be better. I personally think a better more aggressive ski design with shaper bars on them would transform any of the 4 stroke yamahas.

Unfortunately I have not been in the position to test my theory, but hopefully that changes sooner rather than later.


I am aware that used sleds in Canada do go for a lot more $$ than here. In fact, the price of liquid cooled 2 ups here is influenced by Canadians since I have seen several Canadian licensed trucks come down to new and used sled dealers down here and snap up as many as possible. One guy bought 6 edge 2 up touring sleds (600 and 700s) and loaded them on a HD implement trailer sideways to take up north. He said they are cheap enough down here that he turns them for profit up in Canada. Judging by the cost of new sleds in canada, I can see that used sled price will be higher due to that.
 
Waters88 said:
I really like Yamaha. I LOVE Yamaha, I have had 3 Yamaha sleds, a Yamaha dirtbike, and have a Yammy ATV and I am only 21. Here is my issue.

First off is cost. They are expensive. Is the quality worth the extra price, that very well may be the case, but they are just getting insane!

Second. Engine sizes in there snowmobile. 500CC or.... 1000CC PLUS. You think a guy my age can get insurance for a 1000CC sled?? Ya...right! My insurance agent laughed in my face, and said for me to wait about 6 more years minimum before I could get insurance. Called a number of other companies, found 1 of approximatley 15 that I called that would ensure me. For the fun of it, I got a quote on an '08 Apex. Well for $1900 for my first season, I can have it insured!

So there is my second compaint. Lets bring out some realistic engine sizes(600-800cc). It seems other companies are trying to bring new people into the sport, Yamaha, not so much!

My final realization, not as much of a compaint, is about how friggen lazy snowmobilers are getting. Power Steering, are you serious?? I know it may "turn on a dime" but where is the fun it sitting back, and cruising around with NO effort? Sure, on a 2-up machine, it may be an idea that would fly, but on any trail/mountain/sport machine.... is it necessary? I think not. Is it cool to say you have it, and does it drive the price up. For the first part maybe, and the second part definately.


OK, OK, done ranting for the night.
Click to expand...

If you haven't noticed Yamaha has made a clear decision to go the 4 stroke rout. First off these engines are much more sophisticated than a 2 stroke engine with many more moving parts. Secondly it takes more cc's to deliver the same kind of power a 2 stroke does with less cc's. It's just the physics of the situation. In essence I do not see them making 6-800 cc sleds. You are comparing apples to oranges. BTW, they do have a 500 cc 4 stroke called the Phazer and yes it is only 80 HP. IMO, that's not bad considering Arctic Cat's new 500 Sno Pro 2 stroke makes 80-85 HP.

As for the power steering it makes sense being a 4 stroke that is 1000cc and 4 cylinders does weigh a bit more than say a 1000cc 2 stroke. If it helps the machine turn and handle better then I consider it a good thing. I know the Grizzley 700 owners sure like it.

And finally. I just spoke with a person I know well that is a long time member of the Eagle River Derby Lions Club. He just spoke with several employees from all 4 mfg's. Things are not good for any of them. Slow sales, poor winters and a poor economy has really hurt them all. It is tough spending $$ on R & D when no one is buying. The Polaris fella told him that if they would not have gotten the Gov't contract for their 6 wheeler for the war effort, they would have been done. The Yamaha guys said they make more money selling pianos. Doo said they are bleeding in their snow-mo division and Cat is the smallest and hanging on by a thread.

I think we might need to be happy with what we have got. Just trying to be realistic.
 
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