Off Trail Riding

rubbersidedown

rubbersidedown

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
55
Age
57
Location
Plymouth Wisconsin
I am new to being the lead rider off trail. 2 times in the last three weeks. I have been out front only to be burried in 2-3 foot of stuck. And then only a short distance later stuck again. Now I know that getting burried is a fact of off trail riding, but I seem to get burried a lot more that the rest of my group. I ride with the same 5 or 6 guys and they have tried to help but I seem to be at a loss. So now I'm looking for suggestions since almost all the trails in the U.P. are very burnt up. So any advice no matter how simple is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Scott
 

I notice a couple things based on your listed mods in your signature. The M10 skid has a fairly steep approach angle. This causes trenching when moving slow in deep snow. What track are you running? I switched my Attak to a Predator 1.25 before I ever rode it. It's now a 144x1.5 Crossover with an ExpertX 136 setback for 144. Do you have a riser? My Viper with a 136 was MUCh easier to boondock with a taller setup. Still a little shy at 3", but better than stock. Other than what I've already mentioned, throttle control is KEY!! Tooo much, you're stuck. Too little, you're stuck LOL. Lot's of practice and watch others to pickup their technique
 
I'm running a studded hacksaw, so not much of a lug and no riser. What happens most is that she just slowly sinks her tail till the running boards won't allow for any traction. I am always able to keep my front end up even while carving. Maybe the conditions could have an effect on things. The top 6-8 inches was wet but the bottom 2-2.5 feet was sugar.
 
Practice is the only way I know of to improve. Modding the sled will help but any sled can be stuck no matter how long the track.

Find some deep powder and practice by first standing up (riser is a must here and the seat is just for looks off-trail anyway). Then use the handlebars (counter-steer) to rock the sled back and forth as you manuever around any obstacles. You should find that sled will go through powder better if it is rocked up on one ski and then the other (kinda like downhill skiing). This action helps work the track back on top of the snow.

Things that can improve the effectiveness of your sleds ability to stay on top . . .
  • Attack angle of the track
  • Ski width and design
  • Lug height of the track
  • Weight transfer of the skid and setup
  • Weight of sled and rider
  • Gearing / Power (to the track)
Watch videos of mountain riders, they do it very well.

I have watched 121 sleds with stock tracks (even the Viper) run circles around modded sleds with 144 and even longer tracks. Most important part is to keep the sled on top. Avoiding trees and other obstacles is always good too.
 
HAH! AVOID TREES!! They are there for TRACTION Ding LOL! That track is not doing you any favors. 1.25 Predator, now called the Carve, and some wider skis would be bare minimum recommendation from me. HAve to get those bars up as well. Look for used stuff here and you can do it fairly cheaply. Once you get these things done, and practice some, you'll never want to trail ride again LOL!!
 
I did use small pine trees (about 2' tall) repeatedly to keep from getting stuck on my last excursion. Recently logged area near Big Bay where the loose cut brush under the snow made it seem bottomless (over 5' which is bottomless to a flatlander). Just center the sled on them and it gives you a little lurch up and forward when the track grabs them.
 
How tall of a riser can I use without having to change cables? Are there any changes I should make to the suspension? I really have it dialed in for my trail riding style to the piont that when I do a saddle bag trip I need to move it up a bit. It seems that about 20 lbs or so can throw off the ride. Would it help to set the skid back farther? Or is this a dumb idea? I have rail extensions and could shorten then up. Or do I add removable rear wheels. I rode a cat f 8 without the outer wheels ad it was a little tippy for my liking on the trail.
 
Try running a short track SRX off the trail... What I ended up doing is putting viper shocks on it all the way around. Throttle control was the key though, and never stop going up hill. Sadly the yamahas I have rode(srx, vmax 700, msrx) do ok off the trail. We could take them anywhere we wanted, but might have just required a little digging. My artic cat 600 blew the doors off of the yamaha off the trail, but the yamahas were still a blast. My wifes old mxz500 would go through the snow 10 times better than my SRX would. Another thing to look at is look at the skid plate, the skid plates I had on the front had a large rib that added more resistance. If you have a clutch that engages hard, you may want to change that too.
 
Its all about throttle control.A longer track and better skis help big time but i've seen alot longtrack guys bury themselves.Just practice going slower.Let the sled compact the snow and ride on top not trench it.More throttle isnt the answer when you start sinking.Come on a ty ride next season and theres alot of guys that can show you tips.
 
I still remember the last time I rode with richierich "off trail" We started with 3 sleds, finished with 1 in working order. The more you push the limits the closer the "pay to play" becomes. I have yet to hit a tree, but I have hit everything else. Not trying to scare anyone who wants to get into real snow, just keeping it real. BTW trails are boring.
 
richierich said:
Its all about throttle control.A longer track and better skis help big time but i've seen alot longtrack guys bury themselves.Just practice going slower.Let the sled compact the snow and ride on top not trench it.More throttle isnt the answer when you start sinking.Come on a ty ride next season and theres alot of guys that can show you tips.
Click to expand...
;)! We have a WINNER!!!!!!! Put two different riders on the same sled & you can have different results.
 
The drive to muni is about the same as over the border, and with more snow to the north, and unlimited untracked snow (taking extra fuel out in cans to extend fuel range) and sometimes big prizes, like gravel pits not on the map and moose antlers, its hard to stay in MI.
 
richierich said:
Its all about throttle control.A longer track and better skis help big time but i've seen alot longtrack guys bury themselves.Just practice going slower.Let the sled compact the snow and ride on top not trench it.More throttle isnt the answer when you start sinking.Come on a ty ride next season and theres alot of guys that can show you tips.
Click to expand...


I for the most part agree -- 98% anyways. You need to work the throttle to keep the sled moving and floating, which will sometimes require WFOT. Not a lot, but once in a while. And learn counter steering and body position to maneuver the sled.....



Better skis (I like Slydog Powderhounds and the newer Yammi Mnt Skis myself) are necessary to get up on top of the snow. Also needed is a longer paddle track to stay up on top and to push you through the deep stuff. You pretty much need these if snow is 2.5 feet or deeper (up to your bulk head/ running boards).







;)! ;)! ;)! ;)!




Mike
 
Thanks for all the info. Does anyone know how tall of a riser I can run without changing cables? As for the rest a paddle track wont help me on trail so I will have to be conservative. Maybe I will switch to an 1.25. Won't a 144 push really bad in the corners?
 
A push is relative to suspension set up. I try to get my sled to push a bit, so when I am not on the trail, the weight transfer is better. I have no problems tossing the 162 around corners, and there is no way in good snow conditions a 121x1.5 can go anywhere we do, unless the snow is low, or superman conditions. You can make a trail sled work off-trail, or can make a off-trail sled work on trail. Since there is no 50-50 perfect balance, you really have to decide what you want more.
 
heres a little story for you, for what its worth, years ago, i had a 94 vmax 600, std short track, nothing for lugs, and i sold it to a guy i will refer to as a "butt rider", meaning he spent 99% of his riding time on his butt. he couldnt get his sled to go off trail either. after selling him the sled and taking him for a few rides, i was tired of digging him out. so his excuse was that i had a new sled with a paddle track(98 srx with an 1.25" track, installed by me) so i jumped on his sled(my old sled) and showed him how it was done. wont bore you with details. now i come from a history starting back in 74 on a cheetah and panther 440. nothing tracks, heavy, and hard to handle. learning to ride on ungroomed paths(logging roads) we made these things perform by simply learning to use body english. from the cats i went to enticer 300's,excell 340's, and so on, again with nothing tracks and i am amazed to this day where we made those things go. in retrospect, following the advancement of snowmobiles and advancing myself to long and tall lug tracks, i look back at the places we used to make the shorties go and still wonder how we did it. my advice to you, skip the risers and the taller lugs and re-learn to ride. off trail requires standing, leaning, throttle and alot of practice. staying off the butt is the most important thing you can do. if i could ride those old sleds in 2-3' of ungroomed snow back through the seventies and eighties, you can make your sled do the same. practice, practice and ride with forgiving partners to help you dig out, help dig them out, and tap into todays technology and get a shovel and a snobunji.
 
snowdad4 said:
heres a little story for you, for what its worth, years ago, i had a 94 vmax 600, std short track, nothing for lugs, and i sold it to a guy i will refer to as a "butt rider", meaning he spent 99% of his riding time on his butt. he couldnt get his sled to go off trail either. after selling him the sled and taking him for a few rides, i was tired of digging him out. so his excuse was that i had a new sled with a paddle track(98 srx with an 1.25" track, installed by me) so i jumped on his sled(my old sled) and showed him how it was done. wont bore you with details. now i come from a history starting back in 74 on a cheetah and panther 440. nothing tracks, heavy, and hard to handle. learning to ride on ungroomed paths(logging roads) we made these things perform by simply learning to use body english. from the cats i went to enticer 300's,excell 340's, and so on, again with nothing tracks and i am amazed to this day where we made those things go. in retrospect, following the advancement of snowmobiles and advancing myself to long and tall lug tracks, i look back at the places we used to make the shorties go and still wonder how we did it. my advice to you, skip the risers and the taller lugs and re-learn to ride. off trail requires standing, leaning, throttle and alot of practice. staying off the butt is the most important thing you can do. if i could ride those old sleds in 2-3' of ungroomed snow back through the seventies and eighties, you can make your sled do the same. practice, practice and ride with forgiving partners to help you dig out, help dig them out, and tap into todays technology and get a shovel and a snobunji.
Click to expand...


Yes I remember years ago, we were plagued by some snowmobile breakdowns on a trip. We got out the bravo 250 and an enticer 250. Neither of these sleds would go over 45mph on the hard back, but man did we have a blast carving around trees, skipping across the swamp. That is probably one of my best snowmobile memories. It really was amazing what you could do. If it got stuck, lift the back with one hand, grab the gas with another and push. Jump on as it was taking off!
 
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