Cold weather layering

fourbarrel

fourbarrel

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How many guys actually follow the generally accepted proper way to dress for sledding and use the appropriate layers for wicking moisture away and keeping body heat in?I have seen some base layer shirts for sale and am very tempted to buy one or 2 just to try and see how much of a difference they make.I generally use fleece pants now under my Choko bibs and it is very rare that my lower body gets cold.I actually run a lot of times with the side zippers down a bit as I find the bibs insulated too well but I'm hesitant to go with lighter pants because I hate being cold especially out on a ride.
What kind of gear do you guys use?
 
fourbarrel said:
How many guys actually follow the generally accepted proper way to dress for sledding and use the appropriate layers for wicking moisture away and keeping body heat in?I have seen some base layer shirts for sale and am very tempted to buy one or 2 just to try and see how much of a difference they make.I generally use fleece pants now under my Choko bibs and it is very rare that my lower body gets cold.I actually run a lot of times with the side zippers down a bit as I find the bibs insulated too well but I'm hesitant to go with lighter pants because I hate being cold especially out on a ride.
What kind of gear do you guys use?
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I use Remia bibs and jacket and a Techvest. I mostly wear just sweatpants and a cotton t-shirt but take along a sweatshirt but rarely ever need to take it out. I like sweatpants because there isn't all the material like with jeans so my backthing support fits better and doesn't ride up like with jeans. I partially unzip the bottom of the jacket to also help keep it from riding up. I don't sweat like I used to but don't ride as hard either but even still, with cotton I've never been cold and think the jacket and bibs insulate so well that evaperative cooling has never been an issue... at least for sledding.

Now duck hunting is a different thing all toghether. I layer when dressing and start with Thermax long undies top and bottom. I pack along a quilted top and bottom so that after I've parked and set up the boat blind and set out deeks, I remove my jacket to dry out while the coffee is brewing and then depending on the temp, suit up for the long wait of first light.

When I bought my first pair of neoprene waiters I thought they had holes in them because anything I wore under them was always wet at the end of the day. Until one day I had some rookies with me and let them trudge through the swap setting deeks and all I had to do was make coffee. At the end of the day I was dry. Point being is that regardless of if I sweat or not, the Thermax always keeps me feeling dry.
 
Depends on how you ride . . .

If you just sit on the seat and ride the trails, then you basically need to simply stay warm. You can get away with cotton, but I still don't recommend it.

If you ride aggressive or off-trail, you need to have clothes that breath and wick moisture away from the skin. Being waterproof is important as well. This is where the layering technique really becomes important. Body heat conditions change throughout a single ride and you need to be prepared to adjust via layering. Cotton is very bad for this type of riding.
 
Ding said:
Depends on how you ride . . .

snip

If you ride aggressive or off-trail, you need to have clothes that breath and wick moisture away from the skin. Being waterproof is important as well. snip
Cotton is very bad for this type of riding.
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I respectfully disagree. I would say being windproof is more important then waterproof when wearing cotton. As I said earlier, I've never been cold riding when wearing cotton even when drenched in sweat as long as I keep the wind out.

I like the feel of cotton vs. synthetics but put up with it for duck hunting because I'm more exposed to more varied elements (i.e wind/rain/spray) then when I'm riding.
 
snomofo said:
I respectfully disagree. I would say being windproof is more important then waterproof when wearing cotton. As I said earlier, I've never been cold riding when wearing cotton even when drenched in sweat as long as I keep the wind out.

I like the feel of cotton vs. synthetics but put up with it for duck hunting because I'm more exposed to more varied elements (i.e wind/rain/spray) then when I'm riding.
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Sounds like you are referring to trail riding . . .

Windproof is good for trail riding.

When riding strictly off-trail and exerting lots of energy, you do not want cotton next to the skin or you will be soaked. Wind is rarely an issue when riding off-trail as speeds are quite slow relative to riding trails. You will however, be frequently covered with snow thus waterproof is far more important than windproof when off-trail riding. In fact many windproof garments make you sweat even more.

I am guessing that you are primarily a trail rider and what you say is true for the trails.
 
I wear Klim from the skin out! Always dry, always warm! I trail and boondock. I used to carry a boot dryer on trips. Not anymore. I used to carry dry socks and a dry t-shirt and dry gloves. Not any more. Proper layering with quality synthetics allows you to stay dry and warm. I am 6'3" and weigh 300 lbs. dressed out. I have ALWAYS sweat like a running faucet. My Klim jackets, I own 2, are wind and water proof. Bibs are Klim as well,2 pair, same qualities as the jackets. My Klim boots, 2 pair, are light, warm, dry and offer excellent support. Everyone has different experiences, different comfort levels. I have run the gamut with different coats and layers. I have found what works for me.
 
no cotton and i wear anything as long as it has wicking properties, breathability, and waterproof.

seen guys wear cotton, no problem. seen guys wear cotton, big problem.

if you sweat is the big factor.
 
I agree with Ding, and when I ride, I dress so that I am cold on the trail, and hope that I don't need to remove layers as the day progresses. Deep snow is 4x the work and fun as the trail.
 
I used to be in the cotton is fine camp until I started trying some synthetics. I'm now slowly starting to change my gear bag over to syns. My feet used to come out of the old boots with cottons, dripping wet and sometimes cold. Woollies and the Klim gore tex have completely eliminated the cold and most of the wet.
 
I ONLY USE SYNTHETICS.... KLOTZ that is....... had to throw that in.... (don't hate)
 
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I wear sweatpants and a cotton sweatshirt and a cotton tee shirt.. it works JUST FINE!!! if it's 20 below zero,,, I just WON'T RIDE!!!! ( getting too old for freezing my *** off!!!) Tightey Whities too (if you gotta know!!)
 
Ding said:
Sounds like you are referring to trail riding . . .

Windproof is good for trail riding.

When riding strictly off-trail and exerting lots of energy, you do not want cotton next to the skin or you will be soaked. Wind is rarely an issue when riding off-trail as speeds are quite slow relative to riding trails. You will however, be frequently covered with snow thus waterproof is far more important than windproof when off-trail riding. In fact many windproof garments make you sweat even more.

I am guessing that you are primarily a trail rider and what you say is true for the trails.
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Good point about different types of riding producing different levels of sweat but this only makes cotton more attractive to me as far as comfort goes. Most of my riding is in the upper and is primarily off trail especially late in the season. In the days of leather, between the moisture collected outside the jacket and in, it'd be 15 lbs. heavier (and smellier) at the end of the day.

I should mention that the Teckvest doesn't breath at all, fits rather tight and is warm as heck so whether I'm wearing cotton or syn, the moisture has nowhere to go. Wet cotton feels better than wet synthetics and I've yet to own anything synthetic that doesn't feel like wool. I should also mention that the quilted liner in my jacket is rarely used (folded in the trunk along with the sweatshirt) and only comes out when it's super cold and we're just trail riding. I guess most would find synthetics more versatile between the two types of riding and perhaps I've gotten lazy trying out new fabrics, but so far, cotton is just more comfortable... for me anyhow.

It seems the sweating starts with my arms so if I can keep them cool using the underarm zip vents and keeping them bare (covered by just the jacket) I stay cooler and drier overall. This is the primary reason I just wear a t-shirt.

Agreed that waterproof, especially at the arse, is important for off trail riding and is probably more important than just windproof because if it's waterproof, it's usually windproof.

Like I mentioned before, I put up with synthetics when I have to and if I rode all day off trail on a Polaris and had to spend the night in the woods than you bet I'd be wearing synthetics. But the danger associated with sweat, cotton and hypothermia just isn't an issue when riding... a Yamaha ;>)
 
carefully read the last statemant by snomofo. Its almost perfect. The only thing wrong is that riding a Yamaha means you dont have to spend the night in the woods. I would not even think of betting my life on that. I have come close to spending the night in the woods a couple times, and the time we were thiking of actually doing it, the 2 ski-doo's and the 2 yamaha's were in perfect running order. Snow conditions had changed, and no one had enough track or the ability to get enough momentum to stay on top of the snow. If you are properly prepared for a piss poor situation, you will not be wearing cotton.
 
grapeape said:
carefully read the last statemant by snomofo. Its almost perfect. The only thing wrong is that riding a Yamaha means you dont have to spend the night in the woods. I would not even think of betting my life on that. I have come close to spending the night in the woods a couple times, and the time we were thiking of actually doing it, the 2 ski-doo's and the 2 yamaha's were in perfect running order. Snow conditions had changed, and no one had enough track or the ability to get enough momentum to stay on top of the snow. If you are properly prepared for a piss poor situation, you will not be wearing cotton.
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Perhaps my poor attempt at a joke with my tongue and cheak comment was lost on some as I wasn't suggesting that riding a Yamaha means throw caution to the wind.

We are talking snowmobiling and more specifically, I'm talking snowmobiling in Michigan's Eastern U.P. Whether off trail or on, there really aren't remote areas in the Eastern U.P. that'd require an overnight stay. If I rode alone I'd pack and or dress accordingly as I do when hunting in remote wilderness areas. And before GPS and me carrying more than one compass, I have had to spent the night in the woods alone after getting turned around but being prepared it was actually kinda fun.

I haven't done it in a while, but I've snow camped on sleds a few times and those times I'd forgo the cotton and wear Thermax top and bottom but the risk of me spending the night while riding is as remote as having to spend the night in my car on the side of M-28. Maybe boone docking (flat lander style) with some rookies would require more thought about wicking away sweat since they require more digging out. And before I got good at riding off trail the first thing I'd do and still do before digging me or someone out would be to strip down to my t-shirt.

I somehow got the nick name "Mr. Safety" years back because of the things I carry in my trunk regardless of where I ride. If I rode out West and spent more time in what I would consider real remote areas than I'd agree that safety would over rule comfort, but even still, wearing cotton doesn't mean a death sentence. Just as wearing synthetics still doesn't mean you can forget about basic rules to ward off hypothermia.

My trunk kit includes:

first aid kit
space blanket
fire starter
syphon hose
multi-tool
two compasses - you can never have too many
mini flashlight
extra batteries
hard candy
colapsable aluminum cup - from my Scouting days
rope saw
cable and lock
tow strap
TP - you can never have too much
sled tool kit
extra .45 ACP rounds
jacket liner/sweatshirt

My tank bag includes:

bottled water
beef jerky
breakfast bars
mini flashlight
topo/trail maps
goggle lenses
Gortex gloves
oranges or apples on occation

Most importantly - My jacket:

two lighters
beef jerky
cell-phone
compass
mini flashlight
two hankies
before quitting, smokes and a dug-out ;>)
 
I hear ya sno, and I am sure you agree 95% or more people you see riding are not prepared for any sort of situation. I don't ride trails anymore than I have to, but the looks we get when other riders see our backpacks, and ax handles sticking out of them is priceless. Most think we are crazy for having all the extra items, but I know who is walking out of the woods or down the trail the morning after.
 
grapeape said:
I hear ya sno, and I am sure you agree 95% or more people you see riding are not prepared for any sort of situation. I don't ride trails anymore than I have to, but the looks we get when other riders see our backpacks, and ax handles sticking out of them is priceless. Most think we are crazy for having all the extra items, but I know who is walking out of the woods or down the trail the morning after.
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Agreed. And I get the same funny looks when I lay all the stuff in my trunk on the seat.
"you expecting armagendon or something?"

I haven't used most of the stuff I carry but I've turned a few sceptics around when they've needed the syphon hose, tow strap... or TP. ;>)
 
Tp in the woods has a value of about 10$ per sheet when you are selling it. I would rather wear cotton and be cold than not have tp when needed.
 
grapeape said:
Tp in the woods has a value of about 10$ per sheet when you are selling it. I would rather wear cotton and be cold than not have tp when needed.
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Ahh Yes. There is nothing like the feeling of trying use snow (or a glove) to wipe... :brr Been there done that, hope to never have to do it again.
 
sleddineinar said:
Ahh Yes. There is nothing like the feeling of trying use snow (or a glove) to wipe... :brr Been there done that, hope to never have to do it again.
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I still have a favorite camo hunting T-shirt turned sleaveless in place of said glove ;>). A sock works too.

Ahh, the comfort of cotton.
 
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