bog / rub through

D

destey

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
319
Age
45
Location
Vermont
I've put on 100 miles so far this year and 99 srx700 was running perfect, then all of the sudden it just lost power and bogged. I was 1/2 mile from my house so i limped it back.

*Fixed a PV pullthrough in the offseason, set the freeplay via the tech faq on this site.
*Compression seems fine at 120-125 all 3. Plugs were new this season and look fine. I took off the seat and checked for air in the coolant, didn't find any air. No signs of overheating that I can tell. Brand new gas in the tank, it ran fine for the 100miles on the stabil treated gas from last season.
* carbs very clean. The main jet i can see they're all clean, the pilot i spray through and it comes spraying out the jet in the front and next to the main and out the air screw (when I have that pulled).
* Pulled up the set of wires that run under the motor back by tying a rope to one end and pulling it far out the carb side and found rub through on 3 of the wires and the tan wire was severed right where the set of wires routes under the water pump. So i think I found my problem, wipe it clean, fix all the wires. I warm the machine up, it idles fine (although the even when it first bogged it still idled fine). The tach, tach backlight, and fuel gauge start working for the first time (bought it last season). I take it easy to warm it up. As soon as I give it full throttle it bogs again.
*Most of the wiring exposed and electrical tape off and I can't find any more rub through. Up by the handlebars looks good, where it goes by the tank near the CDI.... I can't find any issues.
* Headlights work strong, no sign of any stator issue. Could the CDI be fried? Please help! thanks in advance



edit:
Threw 3 new ngk br9ecs in. Thought it might have been malfunctionting PV system, but removed pvs and it still does it.

Took the carbs apart again and each cylinder's carb has 50ml of gas when I drain it. the main jet looks fine as does its shaft and needle as i shined a light through the carb and could see its clean. the pilot jet looks fine, i can see a stream of carb fluid come out both the carb bore and the front. Needle valve looks good.

I unplugged the headlight to see if it was a weak stator. pulled the wiring back out and checked for more rub through but it looks like it was just that one section by the water pump hose.

The symptoms are that it starts, idles, does not have any power above half throttle, 0-50% works as it should, though it doesn't sound as perfect as it did before. As I get to full throttle it just loses power and never goes above 7000-7500rpm. at full throttle it goes back to 6500.
 
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destey said:
I've put on 100 miles so far this year and 99 srx700 was running perfect, then all of the sudden it just lost power and bogged. I was 1/2 mile from my house so i limped it back.

Just fixed a PV pullthrough in the offseason, set the freeplay via the tech faq on this site.

Compression seems fine at 120-125 all 3. Plugs were new this season and look fine. I took off the seat and checked for air in the coolant, didn't find any air. No signs of overheating that I can tell. Brand new gas in the tank, it ran fine for the 100miles on the stabil treated gas from last season.

I've had the carbs apart 3 times, not a speck of dirt or varnish. The main jet i can see they're all clean, the pilot i spray through and it comes spraying out the jet in the front and next to the main and out the air screw (when I have that pulled).

I pulled the set of wires that run under the motor back by tying a rope to one end and pulling it far out the carb side and found rub through on 3 of the wires and the tan wire was severed right where the set of wires routes under the water pump. So i think I found my problem, fix all the wires. I warm the machine up, it idles fine (although the even when it first bogged it still idled fine). The tach, tach backlight, and fuel gauge start working for the first time (bought it last season). I take it easy to warm it up. As soon as I give it gas it bogs again then the tach/backlight go out.

I have half the sled torn apart at this point with most of the wiring exposed and electrical tape off and I can't find any more rub through. Up by the handlebars looks good, where it goes by the tank near the CDI.... I can't find any issues. Does anyone have a wiring diagram? I have a multimeter but its 10 degrees F in my garage and its hard to work for any length of time so checking every wire would be a nightmare.

The headlights work strong, no sign of any stator issue. Could the CDI be fried? Please help! thanks in advance
Click to expand...

In for advice. I'm having the same problem I think. My sled is only running on 1 cylinder. I can remove either / both the plug caps on the cen and pto and nothing changes. But if I remove just the mag the thing dies instantly. I'm thinking / hoping its the cdi.
 
sdc11204.jpg


sdc11203p.jpg


sdc11206t.jpg



still bogs after fixing this. maybe this screwed up the cdi?
 
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mine was doin the same an i had a rub under the handle bar pad...never had the problem since..
 
my sled did the same started it up no lights, tach and bogged out or died after big jump, found out it was the plug up by the front was dirty cleaned it with carb cleaner sand paper, filled with electric grease not have prob yet
 
grizzlyrunner said:
my sled did the same started it up no lights, tach and bogged out or died after big jump, found out it was the plug up by the front was dirty cleaned it with carb cleaner sand paper, filled with electric grease not have prob yet
Click to expand...

One of the plugs near the hood hinges, where the harness connects to go up the hood to the gauges? I completely unplugged both those plugs, started up the sled and nothing changed. I will try cleaning those out to see if there is any change.
 
owners manual for the 98/99 srx says the brown wire that I found severed goes from the CDI magneto to the CDI unit. Maybe when I was driving along and the brown wire severed it caused damage to the CDI unit?

just found this, going to run the test in a little bit

SmokerCoils.jpg


edit:

ran the test, all three coils tested between the two wires at 0.001 ohms. It is 15F outside though and the test says 68F
 
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Removed the spark plug caps and saw they were pretty corroded. I read the resistance is supposed to be about 5k but I was getting 150k and one cap was at 0.5-2mega ohms. I tried to polish it up a little with a dremel and got it back to 5-5500 ohms on all three. When I took it out for a test drive it seemed fine at first but the problem came right back. I don't know if its the plug caps or if some other wires that have rub through just happened to move.

I ordered a CDI and set of 3 coils off ebay and i'll get some plug caps tomorrow so hopefully one will make it go away.
 
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sideshowBob said:
If the coils, caps, and CDI don't cure your issues and you are positive your wiring harness is not damaged...its time for a new stator.

Bob
Click to expand...

Put in new plug caps, drove it around for a minute and it didn't help. While it was warm (I let it cool for 5 minutes or so) I checked the resistance of the stator at the connector.

brown to black/red was 412 ohm
brown to brown red is open
brown/red to black was 85 ohms
the manual seems a little confusing whether its brown->brown/red or brown->black/red

70-1.jpg
 
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sideshowBob said:
Check out this post/comment # 19 + 20 on testing stator, might clear things up a little.

http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?p=502282#post502282
Click to expand...

thx for the heads up, looks like the stator is good or at least the test says so. CDI/coils should be coming in the next few days. If they don't help i'll revisit the stator.

I read someone had problems with a connector corroding on them. So I cleaned off the contacts to the cdi box and the other connectors around that I could find with some sand paper and put some electrical grease in each one but didn't seem to help.

0.001 ohms across each of the coil connectors has me suspicious of the coils, but they are all the same .001, so maybe its ok? Does anyone know what a good 98/99 coil has for impedance between the two wire leads?
 
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j2hizzo said:
Tors?
Click to expand...

I think tors would cause it to cut out like the kill switch was hit until you released the throttle. Mine drives fine from idle - 5500 or so then it bogs where it has like half the power it should. I drove around with a timing light and it flashes intermittently when the bog happens.
 
Try unplugging your knock sensor. It could be giving you issues and your DCS light isn't working. My buddies sled was having similar issue, but his DCS light would flash. We tested and found his knock sensor to have high resistance. New knock sensor fixed the problem.
 
wotmode said:
Try unplugging your knock sensor. It could be giving you issues and your DCS light isn't working. My buddies sled was having similar issue, but his DCS light would flash. We tested and found his knock sensor to have high resistance. New knock sensor fixed the problem.
Click to expand...


Does my '99 have that?

A set of coils and a stator should arrive this week. If its not those two not sure what it is.

Ruled out:
-TORS
-bad gas
-carbs (cleaned 4 times)
-plug caps
-plugs
-wire rub thru
-compression is good
-CDI
-powervalves

Could be:
-Stator
-coils / plug wires
-Reeds?

Would compression show if I had bad reeds? I got 120-125 on all 3 cylinders
 
destey said:
I drove around with a timing light and it flashes intermittently when the bog happens.
Click to expand...
I think this is a key indicator of your problem area. The problem seems to occur above a certain rpm under load. I am guessing that you have weakened insulation somewhere (possibly even in the source or pickup coils) that is shorting out in this situation. Can you duplicate the problem on the stand, or with the track safely suspended off the ground? If you can, try it with all lights shut off including any on the sled. If you can get it pitch black, and then duplicate the problem, you might see sparks somewhere. This may indicate the root cause area of the problem. Also be sure to check the stator area out real well including the wires that go to it.

The most common source of this type of a problem is in the wiring which I know you have checked out real well already. However, wiring problems can be masked very well. Maybe try the wiggle test too.

Also, have you checked the secondary wires on the coils (plug wires)?
 
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Ding said:
I think this is a key indicator of your problem area. The problem seems to occur above a certain rpm under load.
Click to expand...

Exactly

Ding said:
I am guessing that you have weakened insulation somewhere (possibly even in the source or pickup coils) that is shorting out in this situation. Can you duplicate the problem on the stand, or with the track safely suspended off the ground? If you can, try it with all lights shut off including any on the sled. If you can get it pitch black, and then duplicate the problem, you might see sparks somewhere. This may indicate the root cause area of the problem. Also be sure to check the stator area out real well including the wires that go to it.
Click to expand...

I give this a try. Though the coil might come today/tomorrow and hopefully that's the problem. If not then I'll do this test. It might be hard to duplicate, the problem happens under load. Under light load and low rpm it runs normal, like at 5-20mph. I have a feeling like it'll run ok up on a stand.

Ding said:
The most common source of this type of a problem is in the wiring which I know you have checked out real well already. However, wiring problems can be masked very well. Maybe try the wiggle test too.

Also, have you checked the secondary wires on the coils (plug wires)?
Click to expand...

I think its definitely a possibility that there's still a wire rubbed through somewhere. I wiggled the wires as it was idling and I didn't see any change. It seems like I would have disturbed the short with how I untaped and moved everything around, but after each time of putting it back together the problem is the same. Its very reproducable and only seems to vary with how warm the air is and how warm the sled is (bogging gets worse as the sled / air is warm). There was one time of fiddling around when I didn't let it warm up as long as I usually do (only a minute this time) and when I punched the throttle the bogging was almost nonexistant. But 10 seconds later when I turned around at the other end of the short field it came right back.
 
destey said:
I think tors would cause it to cut out like the kill switch was hit until you released the throttle. Mine drives fine from idle - 5500 or so then it bogs where it has like half the power it should. I drove around with a timing light and it flashes intermittently when the bog happens.
Click to expand...

Don't want to hijack this thread but this comment about the tors has me curious. My sled has a quirk where once in a great while at the end of a good healthy lake/top speed run it will do exactly that... just plain quit right as I back out of it and as soon as I roll to almost a stop and burp the throttle the thing comes back to life and runs great. Now for the million dollar question... how would the tors cause that to happen? :2strokes:

Edit: I just did a search and it makes perfect sense now. I am 95% sure that the tors causes my intermittent shut down after a high speed run. It happened once last year, the sled backfired and blew the top off my aftermarket exhaust can! I will be doing some adjusting/fiddling (also learned about my throttle cable adjustment... it is probably to tight). :rocks:
 
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