E15 Gasahol approved by EPA

The way I read the post was, Fuel "Can" be sold with up to 15% for vehicles from 2001 on up. Not nessesarily for older vehicles.
I did not read that is was mandated. Did I read it wrong????? If this is the case, I would believe we will see pumps with 10% and 15% I bet the mid grade pumps will be 15% ie 89 octane pumps fuel will be same price either way. Al
 
alswagg said:
The way I read the post was, Fuel "Can" be sold with up to 15% for vehicles from 2001 on up. Not nessesarily for older vehicles.
I did not read that is was mandated. Did I read it wrong????? If this is the case, I would believe we will see pumps with 10% and 15% I bet the mid grade pumps will be 15% ie 89 octane pumps fuel will be same price either way. Al
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I think you're right Al and I may have used the term mandate loosely but in order to meet oxygenated fuel mandates... ethanol.
 
I really believe we will see 87,89, and 91 octane fuels just as we do now, but the 89 will have increased ethonal. This will be for vehicles made from 2001 on. If it becomes mandated to use in these vehicles similar to the deisel ultra low sulfer in trucks. Who is going to manage this?
Gary, Nosboy, Can you figure out how much more fuel or polution if any a basic vehicle will promote using the 15% ethonal? I mean, the vehicle will get lower MPG but produce less polution, what is the end result after 10,000 miles??? Al
 
What is EPA doing to Address Potential Misfueling?
EPA is in the process of establishing a regulatory program to help mitigate potential misfueling of vehicles, engines, and equipment for which E15 is not approved. Concurrently with the October 13, 2010 partial waiver decision, the Agency proposed a rule that would require all E15 fuel dispensers to have a label if a retail station chooses to sell E15, and sought comment on separate labeling requirements for fuel blender pumps and fuel pumps that dispense E85. Similar to the prohibition in Clean Air Act section 211(f)(1), the rule would prohibit the use of gasoline containing greater than 10 vol% ethanol in vehicles and engines not covered by the partial waiver for E15. In addition, the rule would require PTDs specifying ethanol content and Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) to accompany the transfer of gasoline blended with ethanol and a national survey of retail stations to ensure compliance with these requirements. The rule would also modify the Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) program by updating the Complex Model to allow fuel manufacturers to certify batches of gasoline containing up to E15. The measures were designed to help promote the successful introduction of E15 into commerce.
 
alswagg said:
What is EPA doing to Address Potential Misfueling?
EPA is in the process of establishing a regulatory program to help mitigate potential misfueling of vehicles, engines, and equipment for which E15 is not approved. Concurrently with the October 13, 2010 partial waiver decision, the Agency proposed a rule that would require all E15 fuel dispensers to have a label if a retail station chooses to sell E15, and sought comment on separate labeling requirements for fuel blender pumps and fuel pumps that dispense E85. Similar to the prohibition in Clean Air Act section 211(f)(1), the rule would prohibit the use of gasoline containing greater than 10 vol% ethanol in vehicles and engines not covered by the partial waiver for E15. In addition, the rule would require PTDs specifying ethanol content and Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) to accompany the transfer of gasoline blended with ethanol and a national survey of retail stations to ensure compliance with these requirements. The rule would also modify the Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) program by updating the Complex Model to allow fuel manufacturers to certify batches of gasoline containing up to E15. The measures were designed to help promote the successful introduction of E15 into commerce.
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Thanks for post Al. What a clusterbleep.
 
alswagg said:
I really believe we will see 87,89, and 91 octane fuels just as we do now, but the 89 will have increased ethonal. This will be for vehicles made from 2001 on. If it becomes mandated to use in these vehicles similar to the deisel ultra low sulfer in trucks. Who is going to manage this?
Gary, Nosboy, Can you figure out how much more fuel or polution if any a basic vehicle will promote using the 15% ethonal? I mean, the vehicle will get lower MPG but produce less polution, what is the end result after 10,000 miles??? Al
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I can tell you this.. On the average, gasoline burns at 18,000 BTUH and Alcohol burns around 6,000 BTUH.. So, considering alcohol has 1/3 the "heat" as gasoline does,, depending on your efficiency of your engine,,,, YOU STILL WON'T NOTICE IT !!! :dunno:
 
alswagg said:
What is EPA doing to Address Potential Misfueling?
EPA is in the process of establishing a regulatory program to help mitigate potential misfueling of vehicles, engines, and equipment for which E15 is not approved. Concurrently with the October 13, 2010 partial waiver decision, the Agency proposed a rule that would require all E15 fuel dispensers to have a label if a retail station chooses to sell E15, and sought comment on separate labeling requirements for fuel blender pumps and fuel pumps that dispense E85. Similar to the prohibition in Clean Air Act section 211(f)(1), the rule would prohibit the use of gasoline containing greater than 10 vol% ethanol in vehicles and engines not covered by the partial waiver for E15. In addition, the rule would require PTDs specifying ethanol content and Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) to accompany the transfer of gasoline blended with ethanol and a national survey of retail stations to ensure compliance with these requirements. The rule would also modify the Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) program by updating the Complex Model to allow fuel manufacturers to certify batches of gasoline containing up to E15. The measures were designed to help promote the successful introduction of E15 into commerce.
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Did anyone ever tell you that you READ TOO MUCH ??? The ONLY THING that does is RAISE THE PRICES because of the "work" they have to do to "watch it" !!!
 
Now I am really confused,???? I was intreged by this some today, so I went to the local CO-OP farm store today. Kindof like the local coffee shop for farmers. I was asking about the ethonal fuel and subsidies. The general consenses was most of the Farmers liked it as great prices for corn. On the other hand, I found out they can buy non ethonal fuel at this CO-OP for off road use. WTF! I am sure none of them ever put this good ol non road taxed gas in there trucks and cars. I sure like how they get higher prices for their grain but don't use the end product. ????? Al
 
alswagg said:
Now I am really confused,???? I was intreged by this some today, so I went to the local CO-OP farm store today. Kindof like the local coffee shop for farmers. I was asking about the ethonal fuel and subsidies. The general consenses was most of the Farmers liked it as great prices for corn. On the other hand, I found out they can buy non ethonal fuel at this CO-OP for off road use. WTF! I am sure none of them ever put this good ol non road taxed gas in there trucks and cars. I sure like how they get higher prices for their grain but don't use the end product. ????? Al
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Thats a SMALL PART of the story I'm trying to tell you !! It gets BETTER and BETTER every sentence
 
Thanks for the clarification regarding e15 al. That makes sense. You can't simply carry e15 and not let the buyers know what they are buying.

Re the farmers and ethanol, yeah, funny stuff in that they can simply buy "off road" gasoline with no ethanol at all. Just like off road diesel, unless you have a money making heavy duty hauler, you will never get checked for the off road diesel. For "off road gas", I bet it has no dye at all.
 
Ya and allot of these huge farms have brand new tractors worth more then my house...

and I just moved to a new house. lol
 
I've gotten throw off this forum a few times for starting trouble and I WANT to start some more with the "off road" people.. Aren't snowmobiles used "off road" and only use roads to get from one field or one forest to the other? (just like "off road" equipment is used?)... I didn't start anything,, I'm JUST ASKING ???
 
horkn said:
Thanks for the clarification regarding e15 al. That makes sense. You can't simply carry e15 and not let the buyers know what they are buying.

Re the farmers and ethanol, yeah, funny stuff in that they can simply buy "off road" gasoline with no ethanol at all. Just like off road diesel, unless you have a money making heavy duty hauler, you will never get checked for the off road diesel. For "off road gas", I bet it has no dye at all.
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we can all LOBBY and get snowmobiles to be considered "off road" if EVERYONE sticks together...
 
Off road vehickes do NOT PAY MFT TAXES..... Thats the big issue with the fuels. ( about 75 cents a gallon)
 
What bugged my a$$ was the fact we are financing the Ethonal use through taxes while farmers don't even use the end product. I am sure not all farmers are doing this, but I know for a fact many are, at least in Northern IN. Al
 
Indiana and Illinois are the Number ONE and TWO top corn producers in the COUNTRY !!! Farmers use soybeans for their diesel fuel BIO DIESEL blends,,but,, a LOT of farm tractors that run on Gasoline can't burn alcohol in their gasoline.. The tractor 's fuel system cannot tolerate it !!
 
You know Klotz adds 20% bean oil or uses a Bean oil to mix with Methanol and Nitromenthane or just straight Methanol

You can run a Two Stroke on E-85 no Problem with the right oil .. and it's a $1.00 per gallon cheaper and over 100 Octane .. if you have carbs you will need richer jetting of course..
 
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