Yamanewf
New member
No just tip weight. 1 gram = 100 rpm x 3 arms = 300 rpm. Shallower finish angle on helix also increases shift out rpm and also allows you to run less twist on your secondary spring because of the increased clamping force of the shallow angle. What size rollers do you have? Look in the tech pages for the heelclicker tuning tips. MR VIPER and TURK have forgotten more about clutching than I care to know. FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS.
Millinocket Rocket
New member
I'm running HC's with SLP pipes, using gray spring, 15mm rollers, short screw and 1 washer in tip, short screw and no washer mid hole, and about 5 washers on the screw in the heel. Secondary is 46/36 dalton, green spring wrapped at 60, and I'm hitting 8900 wfo. But mine is a 121" too, and just mostly trail ride. Pulls like hell...GPS said 103mph the other day on a 1/3 mile pull.
Yamanewf
New member
You should leave the tip empty and run some weight in the middle hole.
Millinocket Rocket said:
So do you have 4.3g in the tip and 3.3g in the center hole?
Millinocket Rocket
New member
dcfjef said:
Yes, I believe that's correct.
I had 4.3 in the tip only and was at 9000-9100, so I threw a screw in the middle hole and it put me right at 8900, which is right where I'm supposed to be. This was the only change to clutching I made when going from single pipe to tripples(putting in that middle screw)
Yamanewf, so you think I should take the tip weight out and add some to the middle? What is that going to change? Won't that pull harder low and midrange but lees top end?
Millinocket Rocket said:
I am only turning 8500 with my current setup (center hole empty and 3.3g tip) and red HC spring. I thought if I add more total weight to the arm it will lower my RPM.
I really need to pull my chain case cover and see what gears I have. See if that is the reason I can't get any more RPM's.
Yamanewf
New member
As per our own tried and true, field tested, been der dun dat, heelclicker guru.
Tips for use with h/c weights by By MrViper700
1.) use 15 or 15.6 rollers-I know, you want to know why now,- you can’t simply hook up the smaller rollers, they explode with too much low end and it is about impossible to get traction, and it’s a much better shift curve with the larger rollers. You run more weight in the arms with bigger rollers!
2.) Use red primary spring only, 230/360 rate, it’s the only spring that allows you to run any amount of weight in the arms so to make the h/c advantageous to use. The softer springs simply just don’t produce the performance without the enabling of weight in the arms.
3.) If you’re running a srx or viper with stock pipe at 8500rpm, then you want to use allot of heel weight and tip weight only, leave the middle hole empty, this allows you to tune in the engagement, and keep the top end of the sled, by using the middle hole it slows down the response from the engine and ruins the shift curve.
4.) you need a shallow finish angle to use h/c's anything from a 50'ish start to a 34 finish works good, some of the common helix I use all the time are: 50/36, 48/34, 48/36, 49/36, you get the idea, stay shallow on the finish and it will pull very respectable top end and allows you to run lots of tip weight, so now your hanging onto the belt in both the primary and the secondary. The h/c weights already act like a progressive angle helix, so you’re not going to be up in the big helix start/finish angles now. A shallow finish does 2 things it clamps the belt harder in the secondary and does not require as much spring tension from the secondary spring because of this, by using only enough rear secondary spring tension it will allow the sled to run faster on top end, you only want to control the shift with the rear spring tension, not over power it!
5.) Moving onto the piped sleds, sxr, viper, etc sleds that run over 8600rpms, I am talking in the neighborhood of 8800-9100rpm, and this pretty much covers all the pipes out there. You want to run as much heel weight as the motor will pull without bogging it down, then you will use a slight amount of weight in the CENTER hole, and leaving the TIP empty. The reason is this, when its piped its has a narrower torque/power band most of the time and when its shifted hard it has a hard time to recover before being brought down back into the meat of the power curve. Its allot like ripping a std shift 5.0 mustang, you side step the clutch at 6000rpm, and the tires are burning, you keep the gas mashed and then you shift to 2nd, car is starting to move out very quickly, then you shift to 5th, the motor will bog and just make noise, has no real pull to it, takes a long time and distance to recover from the over shift. When you have pipes on a sled, this becomes more evident.
6.) In some applications I run 5,6,7 washers in the heel to get the clutch to hang onto the belt, this gives you a nice low engagement and really hangs onto the belt for a super good hole shot, will stretch your arms. Stay around 4000rpm for snow. I also sometimes run the long bolt and 3-4 washers on the tip, the only thing you have to do is watch the clearance to the spider, it sometimes requires you to simply just face off the bolt slightly on the rounded head on a grinder to clear the spider sides, easy to check, just swing the weight thru its cycle without the primary spring in it.
This is the basic things to do, you have to test, retest, test, to get it fine tuned, but h/c's work very well and I use them all the time. I have not found any weights that are close to the same kind of clamping power other then the supertips that srxspec sells are equally good, I am working with them now, they show great potential. I have set up enough sleds that I can just about guess to within a 1-200rpm range of what will work, these weights work!!, but you have to follow some of these guidelines, or you’ll be pulling your hair out !
Tips for use with h/c weights by By MrViper700
1.) use 15 or 15.6 rollers-I know, you want to know why now,- you can’t simply hook up the smaller rollers, they explode with too much low end and it is about impossible to get traction, and it’s a much better shift curve with the larger rollers. You run more weight in the arms with bigger rollers!
2.) Use red primary spring only, 230/360 rate, it’s the only spring that allows you to run any amount of weight in the arms so to make the h/c advantageous to use. The softer springs simply just don’t produce the performance without the enabling of weight in the arms.
3.) If you’re running a srx or viper with stock pipe at 8500rpm, then you want to use allot of heel weight and tip weight only, leave the middle hole empty, this allows you to tune in the engagement, and keep the top end of the sled, by using the middle hole it slows down the response from the engine and ruins the shift curve.
4.) you need a shallow finish angle to use h/c's anything from a 50'ish start to a 34 finish works good, some of the common helix I use all the time are: 50/36, 48/34, 48/36, 49/36, you get the idea, stay shallow on the finish and it will pull very respectable top end and allows you to run lots of tip weight, so now your hanging onto the belt in both the primary and the secondary. The h/c weights already act like a progressive angle helix, so you’re not going to be up in the big helix start/finish angles now. A shallow finish does 2 things it clamps the belt harder in the secondary and does not require as much spring tension from the secondary spring because of this, by using only enough rear secondary spring tension it will allow the sled to run faster on top end, you only want to control the shift with the rear spring tension, not over power it!
5.) Moving onto the piped sleds, sxr, viper, etc sleds that run over 8600rpms, I am talking in the neighborhood of 8800-9100rpm, and this pretty much covers all the pipes out there. You want to run as much heel weight as the motor will pull without bogging it down, then you will use a slight amount of weight in the CENTER hole, and leaving the TIP empty. The reason is this, when its piped its has a narrower torque/power band most of the time and when its shifted hard it has a hard time to recover before being brought down back into the meat of the power curve. Its allot like ripping a std shift 5.0 mustang, you side step the clutch at 6000rpm, and the tires are burning, you keep the gas mashed and then you shift to 2nd, car is starting to move out very quickly, then you shift to 5th, the motor will bog and just make noise, has no real pull to it, takes a long time and distance to recover from the over shift. When you have pipes on a sled, this becomes more evident.
6.) In some applications I run 5,6,7 washers in the heel to get the clutch to hang onto the belt, this gives you a nice low engagement and really hangs onto the belt for a super good hole shot, will stretch your arms. Stay around 4000rpm for snow. I also sometimes run the long bolt and 3-4 washers on the tip, the only thing you have to do is watch the clearance to the spider, it sometimes requires you to simply just face off the bolt slightly on the rounded head on a grinder to clear the spider sides, easy to check, just swing the weight thru its cycle without the primary spring in it.
This is the basic things to do, you have to test, retest, test, to get it fine tuned, but h/c's work very well and I use them all the time. I have not found any weights that are close to the same kind of clamping power other then the supertips that srxspec sells are equally good, I am working with them now, they show great potential. I have set up enough sleds that I can just about guess to within a 1-200rpm range of what will work, these weights work!!, but you have to follow some of these guidelines, or you’ll be pulling your hair out !
Yep I saw that too on the tech page. I need to try moving the weight I have from the tip to the center as you suggested and as he states in #5 since I have SLP pipes.
I need to do this one step at a time so I can keep track of what each change is and whether it worked or not. Kind of hard when the weather has been in the 40's here in ND.
I need to do this one step at a time so I can keep track of what each change is and whether it worked or not. Kind of hard when the weather has been in the 40's here in ND.
Last edited:
Millinocket Rocket
New member
Ya I've read that many times also, great info, just not sure if this is aimed more towards lake racing or trail riding. Each application is a little different. I hate to change mine now when I seem to have it nailed down pretty good for trail riding.
Yamanewf
New member
If it works good and you're happy leave it. And dcfjef, regardless of the setup, if you are hitting the right RPM thruoghout the shift curve you should be clutched properly. The post that I refered to is merely a good set of guidelines and are most likely biased toward racing. The only true way is to test, take notes and test again. There are no mistakes in testing....... only results and each result makes you smarter.
I have been playing around with my setup. I haven't changed anything on my primary yet (H/C with 4.3 in shoulder and 3.3 in tip weight with H/C red spring).
I switched out my helix from OEM 47 deg. to a Dalton 46/36. Still using yamaha green spring. My RPM's jumped up to 9000 and speed increased by 10MPH to 95.9 on GPS. Snow conditions were different too. Had a week of 45 degree F temps so it settled down a lot and now temps are around 10 degrees F. So very hard packed snow. Belt feels pretty good as far as just warm and not hot.
Then since I had an extra secondary from my RX Warrior, I had that clutch rigged with a Yamaha 51-43 Helix and the pink yamaha spring wrapped at 60. This one hooked up even better and gave me 2.7 more MPH for a GPS speed of 98.6. However my belt was hot. I could hang onto it, didn't burn but much hotter than the previous setup.
Wouldn't that second setup with pink spring grab the belt better and not have as much slip? I assume slippage is what caused heat in the belt?
I switched out my helix from OEM 47 deg. to a Dalton 46/36. Still using yamaha green spring. My RPM's jumped up to 9000 and speed increased by 10MPH to 95.9 on GPS. Snow conditions were different too. Had a week of 45 degree F temps so it settled down a lot and now temps are around 10 degrees F. So very hard packed snow. Belt feels pretty good as far as just warm and not hot.
Then since I had an extra secondary from my RX Warrior, I had that clutch rigged with a Yamaha 51-43 Helix and the pink yamaha spring wrapped at 60. This one hooked up even better and gave me 2.7 more MPH for a GPS speed of 98.6. However my belt was hot. I could hang onto it, didn't burn but much hotter than the previous setup.
Wouldn't that second setup with pink spring grab the belt better and not have as much slip? I assume slippage is what caused heat in the belt?