zride91
New member
I have had a 1997 Yamaha SX 700 triple for a few years now, I've had nothing but problems with it. I've taken it to the shop about three times in the last few years to a very highly recommended Yamaha shop to try to get this running good. The shop gets things running, but by the time I ride it afterwards things are not so great any more, even if it's only been a week out of the shop. The shop has cleaned the carbs 2 of the 3 winters I've owned it so far. The shop has also replaced the stator. Even little after getting it back from the shop, it starts and runs, but never has started within an amount of pulls that hasn't kicked my butt.
This year, I kept the sled in storage all summer with 91 oct. fuel, stabil+eth. treatment. When I started it up, it took about 10 pulls which was better than normal for the first of the season, but she wouldn't stay running. I could get it to idle with out any throttle support for half a minute with the choke set to the middle setting, but it would not rev unless the choke was all the way off. When I had the choke all the way off, I could rev it enough to get it moving, but it would backfire most times and die out completely within a minute.
So since, I decided to tackle cleaning the carbs myself instead of paying someone to do it without any results. It definitely needed the cleaning, so I hope it helps, however while I was taking the Air box out, I thought I'd check the spark plug wire connections to the coils. I did not realize the wires and coils came as one piece, and without pulling too hard at all, the wire disconnected from the coil. I then realized that was not supposed to happen... I got 3 used coils at a local yard, maybe I had a bad coil connection and the new coils will help too.
Anyway on to my question... The head on my 700 looks different to all I've seen on the web. Mine has a little metal 90* elbow ton the top towards the back side. It looks like a vacuum line, but nothing is connected to it. Why don't I see this on other sleds and why is nothing connected to it??
The othe odd thing is ther are two wires coming from some kind of sensor that looks connected to the choke rail on the carb assembly. The wires run towards the harness, but just connect to themselves, they do not connect into the harness. Then there are two wires coming out of the harness that are connected to each other, it seems these wire should be where the choke sensor wires connect into the harness, but it's not! Maybe the shop forgot to connect these back up?? But if so how did the machine run well enough for he shop to figure it was done? I'll try to attach photos. Sorry for the novel here, I'm just getting desperate here, as I'm tempted to just sell cheap for parts.
This year, I kept the sled in storage all summer with 91 oct. fuel, stabil+eth. treatment. When I started it up, it took about 10 pulls which was better than normal for the first of the season, but she wouldn't stay running. I could get it to idle with out any throttle support for half a minute with the choke set to the middle setting, but it would not rev unless the choke was all the way off. When I had the choke all the way off, I could rev it enough to get it moving, but it would backfire most times and die out completely within a minute.
So since, I decided to tackle cleaning the carbs myself instead of paying someone to do it without any results. It definitely needed the cleaning, so I hope it helps, however while I was taking the Air box out, I thought I'd check the spark plug wire connections to the coils. I did not realize the wires and coils came as one piece, and without pulling too hard at all, the wire disconnected from the coil. I then realized that was not supposed to happen... I got 3 used coils at a local yard, maybe I had a bad coil connection and the new coils will help too.
Anyway on to my question... The head on my 700 looks different to all I've seen on the web. Mine has a little metal 90* elbow ton the top towards the back side. It looks like a vacuum line, but nothing is connected to it. Why don't I see this on other sleds and why is nothing connected to it??
The othe odd thing is ther are two wires coming from some kind of sensor that looks connected to the choke rail on the carb assembly. The wires run towards the harness, but just connect to themselves, they do not connect into the harness. Then there are two wires coming out of the harness that are connected to each other, it seems these wire should be where the choke sensor wires connect into the harness, but it's not! Maybe the shop forgot to connect these back up?? But if so how did the machine run well enough for he shop to figure it was done? I'll try to attach photos. Sorry for the novel here, I'm just getting desperate here, as I'm tempted to just sell cheap for parts.
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sounds to me like the wires your looking at is the tors system and they have been bypassed. i would hook them back up and see what happens. usually a minor adjustment is needed to get it back to working order.
as for your head fitting question, that sounds like part of the carb heat circuit. not stock to your machine, came out a year or two later. perhaps your heads been changed? if your lucky, someone prior has added all the components and the fact its not spewing coolant may be due to the fact the carb heat is turned off, or that brass fitting is plugged off or not completely tapped into the coolant circuit.
as for your head fitting question, that sounds like part of the carb heat circuit. not stock to your machine, came out a year or two later. perhaps your heads been changed? if your lucky, someone prior has added all the components and the fact its not spewing coolant may be due to the fact the carb heat is turned off, or that brass fitting is plugged off or not completely tapped into the coolant circuit.
staggs65
Moderator
and heres some good carb cleaning write-ups to help you along
http://www.totallyamaha.com/snowmob...Carb Cleaning/Carb cleaning 101 with pics.htm
http://www.totallyamaha.com/snowmobiles/aaTECH/carbs/cleaning_carbs.htm
and theres lots more good info in the tech section when you got some time to read
http://www.totallyamaha.com/Totallyamaha/mainTechIndex.html
http://www.totallyamaha.com/snowmob...Carb Cleaning/Carb cleaning 101 with pics.htm
http://www.totallyamaha.com/snowmobiles/aaTECH/carbs/cleaning_carbs.htm
and theres lots more good info in the tech section when you got some time to read
http://www.totallyamaha.com/Totallyamaha/mainTechIndex.html
zride91
New member
Thank you both very much for the quick response. I did just try to start it, and it started on the second pull. That has not happened since I've owned this sled unless it's hot. It probably would have even gone on the first pull, but I lost balance on the trailer... I'm pretty stoked!
The only thing is when it started, I didn't get the typical oil smoke... Does it have to be cooler out. I let it run for a minute or so to see if the smoke would come and gave it a quick rev to about 3500 rpm, but kept clean. I'm gonna do some searching on verifying the oil pump. Am I being too impatient, or should there be oil smoke pretty much right away, even on a warm night?
I'll have to do some googling on this tors system, new to me. Thank you very much for the direction on that
!
The whole carb heating sounds pretty intimidating, but even though I really haven't run this too much, I have never noticed coolant.
Thank you for the articles. This forum has already helped a lot as there was a carb cleaning 101 thread I found that walked me through it very well, much better than a manual I downloaded.
Thanks again!
The only thing is when it started, I didn't get the typical oil smoke... Does it have to be cooler out. I let it run for a minute or so to see if the smoke would come and gave it a quick rev to about 3500 rpm, but kept clean. I'm gonna do some searching on verifying the oil pump. Am I being too impatient, or should there be oil smoke pretty much right away, even on a warm night?
I'll have to do some googling on this tors system, new to me. Thank you very much for the direction on that
!The whole carb heating sounds pretty intimidating, but even though I really haven't run this too much, I have never noticed coolant.
Thank you for the articles. This forum has already helped a lot as there was a carb cleaning 101 thread I found that walked me through it very well, much better than a manual I downloaded.
Thanks again!
staggs65
Moderator
you dont have to google the tors just use the search feature here.
but in a nutshell TORS is throttle over-ride system. it prevents the sled from running out of control from a broke or stuck throttle cable. it basically consists of 2 switches, the one at the carbs that you see and one at the throttle lever. Most tors problems are either from the throttle cable being adjusted too tight, and sometimes dirty switches. when the tors activates the engine wont rev enough to engage the clutch and sounds like its bouncing off a rev limiter because basically it is.
but in a nutshell TORS is throttle over-ride system. it prevents the sled from running out of control from a broke or stuck throttle cable. it basically consists of 2 switches, the one at the carbs that you see and one at the throttle lever. Most tors problems are either from the throttle cable being adjusted too tight, and sometimes dirty switches. when the tors activates the engine wont rev enough to engage the clutch and sounds like its bouncing off a rev limiter because basically it is.
zride91
New member
So tonight I did some reading on oil pump cable adjustment...
On my cable , I pulled back the rubber covers of the split in the cable. One thing that didn't seem clear in the instructions was how to get the gap in the cable. With the cover pulled up, there was no gap in the cable. You have to pull the cable apart to activate the oil pump arm all the way to measure the gap, right?? When this was done it measured around 24mm which was at the top range of spec, so I decided to adjust to 22mm to see if the machine would be more smokey on startup. Tonight the machine started on first pull!! Again unless it was hot, this never happened before! I am very excited about starting effort, hopefully it's not just a big tease with the current weather temperatures. I'm sure it'll be a bit harder in the cold, but it still starts within 3 pulls, I'd be happy.
Anyway, after I started it today in the garage with all doors shut, it still wasn't smokey... After running it for a little bit again and lightly revving, still nothing. There is a faint smell of oil burn, and after shut off I did notice some smoke swirling by my halogen lights, but I was expecting a lot more smoke. Am I looking into this too much? Is this normal? I haven't burned through a whole tank of oil since owning it (nor a tank of gas), but I did top it of with Amsoil yellow top oil if it makes a diff. The yellow says low smoke, but I didn't put that much in, and I have no idea what was in before.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
http://videobam.com/ALwsk
On my cable , I pulled back the rubber covers of the split in the cable. One thing that didn't seem clear in the instructions was how to get the gap in the cable. With the cover pulled up, there was no gap in the cable. You have to pull the cable apart to activate the oil pump arm all the way to measure the gap, right?? When this was done it measured around 24mm which was at the top range of spec, so I decided to adjust to 22mm to see if the machine would be more smokey on startup. Tonight the machine started on first pull!! Again unless it was hot, this never happened before! I am very excited about starting effort, hopefully it's not just a big tease with the current weather temperatures. I'm sure it'll be a bit harder in the cold, but it still starts within 3 pulls, I'd be happy.
Anyway, after I started it today in the garage with all doors shut, it still wasn't smokey... After running it for a little bit again and lightly revving, still nothing. There is a faint smell of oil burn, and after shut off I did notice some smoke swirling by my halogen lights, but I was expecting a lot more smoke. Am I looking into this too much? Is this normal? I haven't burned through a whole tank of oil since owning it (nor a tank of gas), but I did top it of with Amsoil yellow top oil if it makes a diff. The yellow says low smoke, but I didn't put that much in, and I have no idea what was in before.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
http://videobam.com/ALwsk
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staggs65
Moderator
you're not going to know for sure till you burn some gas through it. Mark your oil tank, fill up on gas and ride it. when you fill up on gas note how much it took then fill the oil tank back to your mark noting how much that took. from there its just math to figure out the ratio. and see where you're at. you can premix some oil into that first tank of fuel if you suspect you're not getting any oil right now. Another thing to do is bleed the oil pump to see if you are getting oil through it. You can find that procedure by searching here.
YamaChris
New member
I have the opposite of your head. In 98 they started to have the coolant fitting on the head and a shutoff mounted on the airbox. It went to fittings on the carbs and attached to the coolant housing under the exhaust manifold. Your head was probably replaced at some point with a newer head with the fitting blocked somehow. My 98 has a 97 head installed from previous owners and the hoses from the carbs were connected to nothing. I have found that every used sled tells a story told a little at a time, sometimes not a pleasant story...
I wouldn't worry too much about the amount of smoke. It really isn't that bad unless you are used to a 4 stroke
I wouldn't worry too much about the amount of smoke. It really isn't that bad unless you are used to a 4 stroke
zride91
New member
Thanks staggs65! I'll try to bleed the pump prior to running it any more. Want to make sure I don't damage anything.
zride91
New member
Thanks YamaChris! I guess w/o the smoke I was just nervous about getting too little or no oil. Thanks for the input on the head! Getting to feel a bit easier about the sled.
Devilin AblueDress!
New member
Now with pics the elbow I see is definately the carb heater they mentioned. The wires your talking about is the TORS, Some guys just by pass for no real reason. TORS is designed to interrupts throttle when it senses a problem hence Throttle Over Ride System. Alot of guys have issues with measuring the "gap". When you pull that apart you need to measure how much cable is exposed between adjuster housing and black tube on the pump side of adjuster. One other thing on the "specs" of oil pump. smaller number = More oil, larger number= less oil.
next time you have the sled running, take some carb cleaner and spray the carb boots between the jugs and carbs and also spray the seal around the crank on the clutch side. If the RPM picks up when you do this it means some of the carb cleaner is being drawn in by a crack or gap in the boots or seal. If this does happen, note which boot or seal you were spraying and replace it because it is sucking air into your air/fuel delivery system and leaning out your sled. Only one thing happens when you lean them out for too long, can you say BOOOOMMMM!
zride91
New member
Mills, what makes you think I'm running lean? It's starting better than it ever has before. My only concern now is the oil after some of the recent posts, it sounds like I'm ok.
I'd like to avoid BOOOMMMM!
I'd like to avoid BOOOMMMM!
A couple of bucks
VIP Member
Here's an oil ratio write-up.
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70243&highlight=pyrex
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70243&highlight=pyrex
Because the sled is as old as it is and you only ride it a few miles a year, the seals and boots are not getting "lubed" and can start to deteriorate and fail because of it. On all sleds 10 yrs old or older or, on sleds that see high miles, I always do this check to make sure that I don't have a problem. It is an easy and inexpensive test to find a problem that can quickly get very expensive and leave you in the middle of nowhere if it is left unchecked.
Last year on the only ride that my buddies and I went on, one buddy was having problems with his '07 Dragon that has about 8K miles on it. We couldn't figure it out until I told him to do the test. He sprayed the boot between the throttle body and jug and the RPM's immediately jumped up about 1,000 RPM. We know something was wrong and tore it down in the parking lot to find that the boot had cracked and torn about 1/2 way around it. The weight of the airbox pushes down on the throttle body which in turn pushed down on the boot. All the movement from bumps and the motor torque ended up making the boot tear. If we had just said screw it and rode that morning he would have been spending a huge chunck of change to rebuild the motor rather than $67 for a boot.
Last year on the only ride that my buddies and I went on, one buddy was having problems with his '07 Dragon that has about 8K miles on it. We couldn't figure it out until I told him to do the test. He sprayed the boot between the throttle body and jug and the RPM's immediately jumped up about 1,000 RPM. We know something was wrong and tore it down in the parking lot to find that the boot had cracked and torn about 1/2 way around it. The weight of the airbox pushes down on the throttle body which in turn pushed down on the boot. All the movement from bumps and the motor torque ended up making the boot tear. If we had just said screw it and rode that morning he would have been spending a huge chunck of change to rebuild the motor rather than $67 for a boot.
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zride91
New member
Cool! Thanks Mills.